jaymann

I got the car back together after my burnt wire experience.
I discovered that now the car won't run with the vacuum advance hooked up.
I disconnected it to set the timing and it runs ok at idle. Soon as I hook up the vaccuum, it runs rough and stalls and is hard to start.
It didn't do this before I installed the Pertronix. The Pertronix is the only change that made the car run rough. It's the reason I was twisting the distributor when the wiring harness burnt up.

I took it for a drive without the advance hooked up and it doesn't run well. It's popping thru the carb and bogging out.
I switched to Pertronix after reading great things about them, but this car ran better without it!
Any ideas??

OLD SKL 69

Have you tried to switch back to the points to see if that solved your problem?

redoldsman

I have never heard of this. Is it possible you fried something when it shorted out? That is my guess.

70 cutlass s

I would check the timing. Start with TDC first.

Bluevista

It does sound like you may have the timing off? Too far advanced? Setting it at the specified rpm with the vac hoses disconnected I take it? The Pertronix shouldn't do anything like that. The advance plate free, no wires jamming it up?
The advance canister or whatever it has okay, didn't burn a hole through the diaphragm and have a vac leak now??

Olds64

You might contact Pertronix. Ask them if they suggest manifold or ported vacuum for vacuum advance. When you hook up vacuum advance at idle it shouldn't change the timing if you put it on ported vacuum.

jaymann

I was very careful (before the fried wiring) to only change one thing at a time on my way to installing the Pertronix unit.
I swapped plugs and started it up and it ran fine.
Swapped wires and it ran fine.
Swapped cap and rotor and it was fine.
Installed Pertronix and it ran like crap. Disconnected vacuum advance to check timing and it ran better as soon as the line came off. Not great but better. It wouldn't idle at all with the vacuum advance hooked up. It was then that I twisted the distributor and shorted out the Pos wire to the coil.
BTW, I'm still running the resistor and it's wired exactly like the Pertronix diagram.

Today I checked that the rotor was pointing to the #1 wire when the engine was at TDC. The timing mark on the balancer lines up with the timing pointer.
Everything was fine there.
I swapped out the coil for a new one I had on the shelf and no spark??
Put the old one back in and it fired up.
No amount of adjusting the timing makes this car run smooth.

I swapped out the Pertronix for the stock points and it idles great with the advance hooked up.
Took it for a drive and barely made it around the corner. Under load the car is backfiring and sputtering.

This is getting really frustrating!

Fletch

I will start to ramble.. but.. Make sure you have a good ground on the pertronix. There is no air gap adjustement so that will not affect the running.Vacuum advance pod may have a hole in it, but i doubt it would drain enough vacuum to cause a backfire. A change back to points and all the attendant screws leads back to a ground failure. Added thought.. make sure the distributor plate is clean.. no oil.. Oil will transmit voltage.
Best I can think of... I run a pertronix II
Hope any of this will help.
Fletch

highlander

dont you have to eliminate the resistor / resistor wire on a pertronix system? If you dont it will hardly run (been there). You need it to be hooked up to a switched true 12v soure. also i read that if you leave the ignition on for a extended period of time you can burn up the ignition system. But i now read that you put hte points back in and it is still runing bad?

jaymann

The instructions have 2 ways to wire it. If you're using a stock 1.3 ohm coil you tao into the positive wire before the resistor. If you have the flamethrower 3 ohm coil you get rid of the resistor. I kept the resistor because you can switch back to points easily if needed.
I've got a few things to try tomorrow...I had a local genius stop by tonight and do some troubleshooting. I'll let y'all know how it goes.

Olds64

We look forward to an update.

MN71W30

Just like the old days when you dwelled a set of points. When ever you changed the dwell angle the timing moved along with it. And it moved quite a bit. I agree with blue vista, check the timing. Your way advanced and your vacuume advance made it even worse. You need to establish that before moving on!!! I always time engines at 36 degrees full advance and don't worry too much where it is at an idle.
Good luck

MN71W30

Did you change the plug wires? I'vee seen weird things happen when doing that. I had a Pertronics system in a 70 Chevelle 454 that woulldn't run after I changed the plug wires. I reinstalled my old wires and it ran fine. I would double check the firing order. I've seen cars idle fairly well with a couple wires wrong.

Oldsguy

If you are still using the same vacuum canister make sure the short didn't burn a hole in it which is technically a vacuum leak. This would make it run poorly.

jaymann

I got it running....not with the pertronix unit though!

The ground wire inside the distributor wasn't connected very well. I guess I disturbed it installing the Pertronix. I installed a new wire and the vacuum advance problem went away. It seemed that when the advance kicked in it moved this ground which caused the timing to go crazy.

Now, with the Pertronix installed (1181LS Lobe sensor model) there's a huge miss in the timing. It's like the thing shuts down randomly. With the timing light you can watch it go out for a few pulses and then back on.

I yanked the Pertronix out and threw in the old points and it fired right up and the timing is right where it should be. Advance works fine too. I actually drove the car today!!
Now I find it's not shifting right. Doesn't seem to kick down properly. I imagine it's the linkage. If I can sort that out I can find something else to fix!

jaymann

Darn it I spoke too soon.
I cruised around a little and stopped for gas. I pulled up to the pump and it started running rough and died. Put gas in, pulled away from the pump and it's running crappy again! Backfiring and missing like the timings out.
After about 10 minutes of restarts and stalls, it fired up and ran perfect again...

What the heck is going on here??!?!

MN71W30

I would run a 12 volt wire to the coil from the battery positive and bypass your ignition system. It could be a loose connection somewhere up stream to your switch. This could isolate an issue. If not we'll move on to other things.

jaymann

Thanks I'll try that. These little intermittent problems are frustrating. Just when I think all is well it pops up again.

jaymann

I've been emailing back and forth with someone from Pertronix.
I'm still having problems.
I've got 12 volts going to the ballast resistor. 8.5 Volts coming out of it going to the coil. Which is in spec to what the Pertronix tech told me.
I've got a terrible mis-fire and the engine won't run without the timing advanced way too much.

I just received an email from Pertronix saying send us back the unit and we'll replace it...that doesn't sound like my car will be running anytime soon.


I'm scratching my head now, 'cause there's nothing else I can think of.
At one point on wednesday the car was running great and then died. When I finally got it fired up again it was back to running poorly.
Then for no reason it ran fine again.

I tried setting the timing to where it's supposed to be and it's pretty erratic. It stops firing for a few pulses and then jumps around and settles.

hialeah56

I know you're having problems with the petronix but I want you to check something for me. Remove your rotor cap and check the arms and springs under there, also check cap for proper alignment. Because the vacuum doesn't advance the timming at high speed those arms advance it. This is a shot in the dark but hope it helps

jaymann

I bought a new set of points and condenser as well as a new ballast resistor today.
Car fired right up and I cruised in it all day.
I brought the Pertronix back to where I got it and they're ordering another in to replace it.
I'll be sure to post my experience.
BTW, Pertronix customer service has been great.

stan 65 cutlass

hey jayman, nice to see another island guy, sucks about your ignition. is that your sweet car in your avatar?

jaymann

There's a few of us islanders on here.
Ya that's my car...it photographs real well but needs some help when you see it in person.
Nice Cutlass. I've always liked that body style.

rocketdownunder

Hi jaymann , it just could be ,that petronix could be faulty , just because its new doesn't mean anything , a mate of mine bought a brand new msd dizzy and after fitting the car ran like crap , at the end it turned out the dizzy was no good , they replaced it and no problems.
cheers chris.

jaymann

Yup it was the Pertronix unit that was faulty.
I brought it back to where I bought it and told them to get me a new one.
I installed it today. Fired right up. I had to tweak the timing a little but it runs good.
I just took it for a drive and it goes!
Got pulled over by a cop who just wanted to ask me about the car! He walked up to me and said "nice car!" Where'd you find it? Are you doing the work on it yourself.....

Oh well, mystery solved and now I have a completely new ignition system !

Tomorrow I tackle rebuilding the Rochester 4GC carb.

Olds64

Good to hear that your problem is fixed. When you rebuild your carburetor make sure you keep us posted.