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Tech Editor's DeskProjects, papers, writings, thoughts, musings of our technical editor Joe Padavano. To begin with, he will be making threads and can approve posts to it if he wishes. This can be changed in the future if it does not work out well.
We're taking my wife's 1985 D88 to the Eastern Shore next weekend, so I was taking care of a few minor things yesterday. I got in the car to move it out of the shop when I finished, stepped on the brakes to shift into reverse, and I hear POOF and the BRAKE light comes on.
#@%$*@!
Naturally, it's the long line that runs from the combo valve to the rear axle hose. Amazingly, both flare nuts unscrew with no drama. More amazingly, Advance Auto has the 25 ft roll of 1/4" brake line in the store. Even more amazingly, the old line can be extracted intact from between the body and the frame with only minor cussing. I bend up the new line, flare the ends using the new lever-action flaring tool I bought from Inline Tube at Carlisle (BEST flaring tool ever...), and get it reinstalled in a couple of hours. Flare nuts thread in without crossthreading. Brakes bleed with no issues using my vacuum bleeder. No obvious leaks at the fittings.
You know where this is going. There's a little nagging voice in the back of my head.
I start the car and press the brakes. Pedal is firm and BRAKE light is off. Because I like to live dangerously, I press the brakes again, slightly harder.
POOF and the BRAKE light comes on.
#@%$*@!
This time it's the line on the rear axle that runs to the RH wheel. Any guesses on whether it's the wheel cylinder or the hose that gets bunged up and requires replacement?
The only good news is that this happened at home and not on the road next week.
I did something similar to that years ago but with a friends 1969 El Camino. There were a bunch of us at a friends house and she wanted to show me her "new" car. I go to check it out and she tells me it has manual brakes so I said "oh yeah?" and I stepped in the pedal kinda hard to see how they felt and "POP". One of the front hoses let loose. She was a bit pissed, but I was just glad that it happened there and not while she was driving.
Last edited by svnt442; July 4th, 2016 at 09:26 AM.
Just finished brakes lines on a 92 Trofeo, the two long ones to the rear wheels... problem was there are 2 proportioning valve in line, one for each wheel, tucked up nice and tight out of the way in between the rear suspension mount housing and the body... Basically, the only way to do it right was to remove all the rear lines and build new from the front back... As Joe did, I also used a 25 foot roll of tubing making the task a little easier... My real problem arose when I made the lines to match the ones I took out, which by the way had been replaced some time in the past, using the same double flare that was on the old lines... My MISTAKE... the flare should have been an ISO style and not a double flare... Could not stop them from leaking, had to remove the lines and reflare with the proper ISO flare... Why they didn't leak before when they were changed, who knows... Although, I suspect, they tightened the hell out of them until the leaks stopped, which was why I had so much trouble taking the lines apart... Now I have to do the same lines on my other 92 Trofeo... At least I will be more aware of what is correct...
This is why I frown at on-car repairs of brake lines. If one spot is weak enough to fail ... it's never alone. Damn glad it happened in a safe manner, Joe. I've gotten into the habit that whenever I get into a car, I STOMP the brake pedal. If it's going to fail .. I want it to fail right there. Like Svnt said ... nobody likes it when I do it ... bugger 'em. The alternative isn't acceptable.
My grand father has a 2004 Silverado regular cab long bed truck that he bought new. He takes very good care of it but a few months ago several leaks in the brake lines showed themselves. The aftermarket just recently came out with a full replacement brake line kit for these trucks & for less than $200.00 I replaced all the affected brake lines. All with the correct bends, flares, etc... It was not a fun job but was far cheaper than the local Goodyear quoted him which was about $1200.00. I was amazed that there were 3-4 leaks in the lines at the same time?? I don't know how they all popped at the same time but they sure did.
I had a brake line fail like that in my F150 on the Mass. Turnpike going 70 MPH.......a hairy stop downshifting and stomping on the emergency brake......
Both lines on the rear axle unscrewed without drama. I even had several pieces of 1/4" line laying around, along with new flare nuts. Bent up the new lines, got them installed, bled the brakes AGAIN, and life is good.
While I had the car in the air, I also changed the oil and greased the front end. No surprises there, though I do have a trans leak. Oh well...
The next challenge will be fitting everything my wife expects to bring into the car.
It is refreshing when tools work the way they are supposed to. Above I mentioned the flaring tool. This is the lever-operated Chinesium one that everyone sells. I got mine from Inline because they had the best deal at Carlisle, but the same tool is sold by Eastwood, Summit, Jegs, and all the repro tubing vendors. I can't say enough good things about this tool. Once you get past the poorly-translated instructions, it is extremely easy to use, very fast, and makes perfect flares every time. This is my new favorite tool.
My previous favorite tool is my Vacuula (yeah, I know...) brake bleeder, which uses shop air through a venturi to create vacuum to bleed the brakes. Never had to make more than one pass with this bleeder, ever. It will even bleed a brand new master cylinder in the system without bench bleeding first. Between the two of them, brake hydraulics work is almost pleasant.
One more thing. Yeah, I know, I should have replaced the rubber hose at the same time. Unfortunately, I couldn't get one this weekend, so it is what it is. I'll order one next time I purchase from RockAuto. Fortunately, all the connections are new.
One other tip: Despite the fact that the brake lines I used had the epoxy coating, I applied a thin film of anti-sieze between the tube and the flare nut, and also on the flare nut threads, taking great care not to get any on the flare itself. Hopefully this will simplify disassembly next time I need to open the brake system.
Good stories. I LIKE cheeky named equipment that works. Think I'll buy both of those things.
Shop around. I got the Vacuula at the Long Beach swap meet years ago for $15 because no one (including the seller) knew what it was. The flaring tool is $200 at Eastwood currently. ILT also has it for $200 on their ebay store. I think I paid around $150 or so at Carlisle.
My grand father has a 2004 Silverado regular cab long bed truck that he bought new. He takes very good care of it but a few months ago several leaks in the brake lines showed themselves. The aftermarket just recently came out with a full replacement brake line kit for these trucks & for less than $200.00 I replaced all the affected brake lines. All with the correct bends, flares, etc... It was not a fun job but was far cheaper than the local Goodyear quoted him which was about $1200.00. I was amazed that there were 3-4 leaks in the lines at the same time?? I don't know how they all popped at the same time but they sure did.
VERY common with this era truck (the fuel lines can rust out and leak also), especially more so where they salt the roads. The brake line kit from GM is about $65 (that's not a typo). It includes all new coated lines except the two on the rear axle. I was stunned I got 200K on my lines (2004.5 Sierra) before replacing them earlier this year. I was pushing my luck, I know.
Had a front-to-rear brake line rust through on a 2000 Grand Cherokee in about 2006 or 2007, at about 60,000 miles.
Had ALL THREE lines from the ABS pump down to the frame on a 2006 Dakota with 30,000 miles rust through in about 2013. No way to see them to check ahead of time, even on a lift - totally hidden. And had to take the whole nose apart (bumper valence, headlight, battery, battery tray, front wheel, body computer, fuse box, and more) to get to the ABS pump to install the new ones (total cost for the new lines from the dealer was something like $16.00).
Location: I moved to pittsburgh so I can be near Primantis
Posts: 405
GM is funny that on bigger things they run 1/4 inch to the rear and break into 3/16 at the axle T. If you had 1/4 from the tee to the wheel cylinders, that is indeed odd, my 98 has 3/16, so does my buss.
however, I have replaced the 1/4 inch line with 3/16 running to the rear. Ford does it in the trucks and older ford trucks stop better than older chevy trucks.
I am just about out of the racked brake lines (the 12-60 inch steel stuff in 3/16 and 1/4) - used to stock it for years but now use the green coated roll or the newer (and far more expen$ive copper alloy
how much was that tool in the pic? I use an OTC kit that has served me well for over a decade?
Todays sharing moment: when making a double flare, the first step makes the 'smokestack' portion that gets pushed back in to make the flare. If you make the smokestack (think of the funny looking stack on an old 4-4-0 genoa or american locomotive....) on larger 1/4, 5/16 or 3/8 lines, it makes a great thing to fasten hose to for tranny or oil lines that way you cannot have the hose and clamp slip off.
The line size to the rear of the vehicle is irrelevant. Once the line is bled, so long as the line is not so small as to form a restriction or orifice, it has zero effect on the brake performance. Drum brakes require less fluid than disk brakes anyway.
Just to follow up, we drove the D88 to Pocomoke (just south of Salisbury, MD) and back with no issues whatsoever... other than having to drag way more stuff than we needed.
July 3rd, 2016, 01:18 PM
