307/350 swap, vacuum nightmare!! (77' rocket)

[HARDLUCK88]

hello fellow oldsies!!

my name is tony, and in mid august, the intake valve on the number 7 dropped into the combustion chamber, and well, destroyed the motor...

any who, i have a freshly rebuilt 350R out of a 77 cutlass 442.

i am having a few complications along the way, since the car that im dropping it in is 11 years newer... nobody seems to know anything about olds motors, and all of my googling has led me here!!

so far i have everything i need to finish off the job, but the vacuum stuff...

unfortunatley by connecticut law, my car must pass emissions because the body isn't onder than 25, even though the motor is... so i have to hook up the egr valve, and all of its other vacuum components...

now i know i have to hook up the vac advance, and the transmission modualtor.. and i have been having a heck of a time finding the rest of the vacuum parts for this year motor...

i have deleted the smog pump from the installation but nothing else, so this corresponding diagram does not have the smog pump in it...



i colored in this diagram to make life easier...
IN THE PINK CIRCLE IT SAYS "DV/DV" WHAT IS THAT????

i am waiting on my EGR valve, the EGR DTVS, DTVS, EGR TCV.

what i want to know is, do i need this CTVS??? the dotted line is stating that currently on my carb there is a line going straight from the rear vacuum break to my carb,


i dont plan on using the stock air cleaner so do i need all of that other garbage? i cant even find the part ANYWHERE!!!

i didnt even know it needed all of these coolant temp vac switches and crap, this is a real headache for me, because the car has to pass emissions, and im afraid that if i dont use this stuff the motor will run like garbage, and fail emissions...

can anyone please lead me in the right direction?

another thing also, i do not know how to hook up the vacuum for the brake booster, can someone tell me where i can get a fitting for this? and there is another same thread and size hole adjacent to it, do i plug that? or does something go to that as well???





also what is this port for? its to the right of the fuel inlet on the carb.



im am also clueless as to how the detent cable hooks up to the carb... and that is very important...

this is also another problem im having...

[J-(Chicago)]

AARG. I just threw that stuff in the garbage. I'll go check if they took it yet.

[HARDLUCK88]

THANKS!!!!

[HARDLUCK88]

i washoping the one from my 307 would be of use.... but no. it wasnt.

[J-(Chicago)]

Nope, they're gone. I just threw out a diverter valve,the black box, and all the black discs.

I do have 2 ported vacuum switches brand new in box though. I'll let one go for 10 bucks plus shipping.

[J-(Chicago)]

You can run the brake booster directly from manifold vacuum. I think I may have a stock fitting too. Not sure if the edelbrock threads are the same size however.

[J-(Chicago)]

Another note.
I don't think you can use your computer controlled distributor with the 77 motor.

[Olds64]

i have deleted the smog pump

I don't mean to be insulting but there is no way you will pass emissions without your smog pump. Putting all of the other emissions equipment on your engine without a smog pump is like building an engine without rocker arms.

[HARDLUCK88]

Originally Posted by J-(Chicago)

You can run the brake booster directly from manifold vacuum. I think I may have a stock fitting too. Not sure if the edelbrock threads are the same size however.

yeah i need just the fitting, apparently, its a fitting, and a hardline that connects to it, and then the soft line from the booster connects to it...
i dont have the hard line or the fitting, but if i get the fitting i can make the hard line.. and i have a bolt that fits into the port for thread count/size...

no idea what the other port is for, plug it?

[HARDLUCK88]

Originally Posted by Olds64

I don't mean to be insulting but there is no way you will pass emissions without your smog pump. Putting all of the other emissions equipment on your engine without a smog pump is like building an engine without rocker arms.

we dont do smog here in ct, just emissions, since i have deleted the computer, they just put the probe in the tail pipe... itll pass with out it, it just pumps air into the system i think... im not for sure...... if it fails ill figure something out... the pump however, is the least of my concerns, i just need the motor to run... it should run with out it, because the last time it ran, it didnt have the pump attached to it ither, before its rebuild. i think that smog pump only came with california cars.... correct me if im wrong...

[HARDLUCK88]

Originally Posted by J-(Chicago)

Another note.
I don't think you can use your computer controlled distributor with the 77 motor.

how do you mean?? nobody else said anything about that... damnit! i think im just going to kill myself.

[HARDLUCK88]

Originally Posted by J-(Chicago)

Nope, they're gone. I just threw out a diverter valve,the black box, and all the black discs.

I do have 2 ported vacuum switches brand new in box though. I'll let one go for 10 bucks plus shipping.

if the ones i got are wrong, ill def. hit you up!! thanks!

[dan2286]

For the brake booster line, it connects into the back of the carb if you are still using a Q Jet. All of the factory emissions equipment will bolt right up to the 350, even with the Edelbrock intake. Their are also some tricks to help pass the tail pipe test. I have heard dumping a couple bottles of rubbing alcohol in the gas tank will help. Maybe leaning out the carb will also help. Beat the hell out of the car right before you get their to get it nice and hot. I am sure their is more tricks but I cant think of any right now.

[Redog]

You could lean out the carb to pass a sniffer test, but if you have a visual test your SOL.

You can run vacuum for the brakes right from the mani and the advance and trans both can run off the carb. You have the Edelbrock so the driver's side of the carb is for the tranny and the pass side is for the advance. You can unplug the lines and see. The tranny line had vacuum all the time and the advance line only had vacuum when the gas is pressed. Easy to figure out.

Other vacuum stuff is for the vents and other little stuff and a vacuum gauge if you want

Smog pump is pretty easy to put on I think, wasn't it right under the A/C condensor on the same brakcet?

[HARDLUCK88]

Originally Posted by dan2286

For the brake booster line, it connects into the back of the carb if you are still using a Q Jet. All of the factory emissions equipment will bolt right up to the 350, even with the Edelbrock intake. Their are also some tricks to help pass the tail pipe test. I have heard dumping a couple bottles of rubbing alcohol in the gas tank will help. Maybe leaning out the carb will also help. Beat the hell out of the car right before you get their to get it nice and hot. I am sure their is more tricks but I cant think of any right now.

yeah i was going to lean it out, it has a cat on it, but i was gonna put like 115 octane in it lol. if teh brake vacuum plugs to the carb, do i plug those 2 ports behind the carb in the intake?

Originally Posted by Redog

You could lean out the carb to pass a sniffer test, but if you have a visual test your SOL.

You can run vacuum for the brakes right from the mani and the advance and trans both can run off the carb. You have the Edelbrock so the driver's side of the carb is for the tranny and the pass side is for the advance. You can unplug the lines and see. The tranny line had vacuum all the time and the advance line only had vacuum when the gas is pressed. Easy to figure out.

Other vacuum stuff is for the vents and other little stuff and a vacuum gauge if you want

Smog pump is pretty easy to put on I think, wasn't it right under the A/C condensor on the same brakcet?

there is no visual test in ct for obd1 and older cars. yeah smog was under ac bracket. i dont want to put it on because its fugly!

could you show me what goes to what port? if i dont run these vac switches how will it work? why are there vac switches if it will run with out them, what does the egr valve line go to if theres no vac switch?

[HARDLUCK88]

also, i just got my EGR vlave today. but i need to know the stamping number to put the correct orifice washer in, how can i find that number? i do not have a previous one from this motor...

[HARDLUCK88]

Originally Posted by J-(Chicago)

Another note.
I don't think you can use your computer controlled distributor with the 77 motor.

1973: EGR is added to Olds engines. 1974: HEI was offered as an option in 1974 Oldsmobiles and became standard in 1975. 1975: Catalytic Converters are added to all Olds exhaust systems.

[Oldsguy]

Devildog, I hope you get your engine running. I am staying out of this one as there is too much plumbing top-side to make me comfortable making any suggestions. Good luck though Marine!


ATC(AW) Sorrell, Retired (aka Dan)

[Lady72nRob71]

Originally Posted by HARDLUCK88

1973: EGR is added to Olds engines. 1974: HEI was offered as an option in 1974 Oldsmobiles and became standard in 1975. 1975: Catalytic Converters are added to all Olds exhaust systems.

The computer controlled HEI disty from the 307 should not be used, since you deleted the computer. The HEI in your 77 350 should work best, as it is not computer controlled.

Save your air injection pump and parts in case you need to reinstall them if you cannot pass emissions or visual inspection.
The air pump reduces one particualr pollutant, I just cannot remember which one (HC maybe???)

That 350 will sure wake up the car you are putting it in!

[Olds64]

The air pump reduces one particualr pollutant, I just cannot remember which one (HC maybe???)

You are correct Rob. The smog pump diverts air into the catalytic converter to further reduce HC into CO2 and water.

I am not a big proponent of having older cars pass emissions (especially since newer Detroit cars can hardly pass it). However, if you need to keep emissions control devices on your vehicle to drive it then the best parts is to keep it in stock condition to pass the test and then take all the crap off (especially if you can get lifetime inspection).

The bad thing about leaning out your idle mixture screws is that you can cause your emissions to actually become worse. The leaner the car runs the hotter it runs. The hotter the combustion the more NOx you produce. Also, if the car is running too lean you might develop a lean miss which will increase your HC as well.

[J-(Chicago)]

Ok. I'm going to start from the beginning here.

Your trans mount doesn't line up.
Did you use the correct set of motor mount holes on the block? Or is that just the way you have it sitting at the moment?

[J-(Chicago)]

Your throttle cable and detent cable connect here. There will be 2 studs sticking out of the bracketry. The round one is usually for the throttle, and is held on by a small c or e clip. The detent stud is usually shaped like the letter "T"

With that edelbrock manifold, you may have to shim up the bracket behind the carb on the 2 rear carb bolts to make the cables sit and travel nice and straight.

[J-(Chicago)]

Originally Posted by HARDLUCK88

i colored in this diagram to make life easier...
IN THE PINK CIRCLE IT SAYS "DV/DV" WHAT IS THAT????

This is an educated guess: DV=direct vacuum source from the intake manifold.

Originally Posted by HARDLUCK88

i dont plan on using the stock air cleaner so do i need all of that other garbage? i cant even find the part ANYWHERE!!!

I have a stock air cleaner if you want one. $10 plus shipping.

Originally Posted by HARDLUCK88

another thing also, i do not know how to hook up the vacuum for the brake booster, can someone tell me where i can get a fitting for this?

I believe you are thinking of the brake booster check valve. You can probably order it at rockauto.com or your local parts store for under 10 bucks.

Originally Posted by HARDLUCK88

also what is this port for? its to the right of the fuel inlet on the carb.

looks like manifold vacuum

[J-(Chicago)]

Does your emission test use an idle test with the wand? or do they run a hose to your exhaust and dyno it?
Either way, You can probably pass by running it on isopropyl alcohol. The red bottles of HEET at the parts stores, not the yellow bottles.
If you buy a case of that stuff, run the tank down to empty, and fill it with HEET you'll probably pass with flying colors.
DO NOT use store bought rubbing alcohol, because it contains water. HEET is specifically designed to REMOVE water from your fuel system.

[J-(Chicago)]

Originally Posted by HARDLUCK88

1973: EGR is added to Olds engines. 1974: HEI was offered as an option in 1974 Oldsmobiles and became standard in 1975. 1975: Catalytic Converters are added to all Olds exhaust systems.

I understand, however the wire pigtail, and modules are different in the 81-90 olds motors and designed to run on a computer. You'll need a regular hei distributor, not a computer one. Same goes for the carburetor. The 81-90 fuel mixtures are controlled by computer, so you'll need an olds carburetor from an older car too.

Another note: you may have to swap the fittings on the back of the 2 power steering pumps depending on which one you plan to use.

[88 coupe]

Originally Posted by HARDLUCK88

........ unfortunatley by connecticut law, my car must pass emissions because the body isn't older than 25 ........

Not a problem if you use the entire '307 engine management system, including the distributor and carb, and the engine is in good condition and tuned to factory specs.

Norm

[HARDLUCK88]

Originally Posted by J-(Chicago)

I understand, however the wire pigtail, and modules are different in the 81-90 olds motors and designed to run on a computer. You'll need a regular hei distributor, not a computer one. Same goes for the carburetor. The 81-90 fuel mixtures are controlled by computer, so you'll need an olds carburetor from an older car too.

Another note: you may have to swap the fittings on the back of the 2 power steering pumps depending on which one you plan to use.

i used the stock ps pump, i never dis connected the lines. and the distributor is after market,the carb is the original from 77 rebuilt and jetted bigger for the bigger cam my dad put in. the only wire that plugs into it from my harness is the power wire.

[HARDLUCK88]

Originally Posted by 88 coupe

Not a problem if you use the entire '307 engine management system, including the distributor and carb, and the engine is in good condition and tuned to factory specs.

Norm

that factory computer controlled garbage rochester will never touch my rocket! any sensor goes bad, any, and its running full lean im glad to get rid of the computer!! garbage!

[HARDLUCK88]

Originally Posted by J-(Chicago)

Does your emission test use an idle test with the wand? or do they run a hose to your exhaust and dyno it?
Either way, You can probably pass by running it on isopropyl alcohol. The red bottles of HEET at the parts stores, not the yellow bottles.
If you buy a case of that stuff, run the tank down to empty, and fill it with HEET you'll probably pass with flying colors.
DO NOT use store bought rubbing alcohol, because it contains water. HEET is specifically designed to REMOVE water from your fuel system.

yeah it goes on a dyno with the stick in the pipe. if i can get that shitty 307 to pass, i can get the 350 to pass... that 307 has 200k on it and it passed emissions...

[HARDLUCK88]

Originally Posted by J-(Chicago)

Your throttle cable and detent cable connect here. There will be 2 studs sticking out of the bracketry. The round one is usually for the throttle, and is held on by a small c or e clip. The detent stud is usually shaped like the letter "T"

With that edelbrock manifold, you may have to shim up the bracket behind the carb on the 2 rear carb bolts to make the cables sit and travel nice and straight.

yeah i have to shim up the whole carb, the throttle hits one of the head bolts as well as the detent cable





this bolt below was swapped for a grade 8

[HARDLUCK88]

Originally Posted by Oldsguy

Devildog, I hope you get your engine running. I am staying out of this one as there is too much plumbing top-side to make me comfortable making any suggestions. Good luck though Marine!


ATC(AW) Sorrell, Retired (aka Dan)

thank you sir.

[HARDLUCK88]

Originally Posted by J-(Chicago)

This is an educated guess: DV=direct vacuum source from the intake manifold.

I have a stock air cleaner if you want one. $10 plus shipping.

I believe you are thinking of the brake booster check valve. You can probably order it at rockauto.com or your local parts store for under 10 bucks.
looks like manifold vacuum

i have the check valve, but after it is a rubber hose, i need the fitting to connect the hose to the manifold.

[HARDLUCK88]

Originally Posted by Lady72nRob71

The computer controlled HEI disty from the 307 should not be used, since you deleted the computer. The HEI in your 77 350 should work best, as it is not computer controlled.

Save your air injection pump and parts in case you need to reinstall them if you cannot pass emissions or visual inspection.
The air pump reduces one particualr pollutant, I just cannot remember which one (HC maybe???)

That 350 will sure wake up the car you are putting it in!

yeah just in case im savin it, but im not installing it if i have to, my cat doesnt have that draft tube, so thats another reason im not hooking it up.

[HARDLUCK88]

Originally Posted by J-(Chicago)

Ok. I'm going to start from the beginning here.

Your trans mount doesn't line up.
Did you use the correct set of motor mount holes on the block? Or is that just the way you have it sitting at the moment?

yeah im using stock motor mont locations, only reason trans dont fit, is because the mounting position on the metric 200 tha cadi came with had a one piece tranny with the mount on the tail shaft, the th350 is a 2 piece trans, and had the mount before the tail shaft part that is removeable...

[J-(Chicago)]

Originally Posted by HARDLUCK88

i have the check valve, but after it is a rubber hose, i need the fitting to connect the hose to the manifold.

I'd just go to the hardware store and buy a 90 degree brass fitting that will thread into your manifold. Then cut a length of metal tubing and have a little rubber and hose clamps on either end. Just like the trans modulator tube.

[HARDLUCK88]

got these today.

the 2 port one is a size down i think, so if it doesnt fit into the accessory port i have for the temp guage, then im a have to get an adapter for it...

[img][/img]

anyone know where i can get softlines to connect my tranny to the radiator? i dont want hardlines.

[J-(Chicago)]

I strongly recommend hardlines. However, if you must jerry rig it to get it running, at least use some high pressure fuel injection line.

[HARDLUCK88]

Originally Posted by J-(Chicago)

I strongly recommend hardlines. However, if you must jerry rig it to get it running, at least use some high pressure fuel injection line.

how much pressure is running through those lines? no way its enough to bust a steel braided hose.


another question i have:

i got some chrome valve covers from mondello, and i needed baffles, it said they only dont fit roller rockers, and i dont have rollers so i got em, and they still didnt fit!! those idiots put the baffle in the wrong spot, its right on top if a rocker arm, and cannot be properly fastened... what should i do?

[HARDLUCK88]

the 2 port vac switch i had had a smaller pipe thread on it, lucky for my the accessory port was the same size!!!
i even got a fitting for my brake booster! just gotta plug the other one.
the switches didnt really end up tight in the position i wanted but they fit, and its only vacuum line...





im trying to find some of this to use for tranny lines


fuckin freezin my balls off! it was 6 degrees colder when i first went outside

[J-(Chicago)]

Originally Posted by HARDLUCK88

how much pressure is running through those lines? no way its enough to bust a steel braided hose.


another question i have:

i got some chrome valve covers from mondello, and i needed baffles, it said they only dont fit roller rockers, and i dont have rollers so i got em, and they still didnt fit!! those idiots put the baffle in the wrong spot, its right on top if a rocker arm, and cannot be properly fastened... what should i do?

Lesson learned.
Don't buy anything from them.

Why do you need baffles? The 307 valve covers should work just fine.