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I'm needing the filler neck that bolts to the intake manifold for my '72 convertible project (I can't seem to to find the one that came with the engine 5 years ago-LOL). I prefer the correct for '72 style (see pic below). Thanks
Rodney
Last edited by cdrod; February 26th, 2017 at 04:36 AM.
Reason: typo
I’ve read many guy’s threads where they said life got in the way of progress on their projects, I can now officially say I joined that club for the past year and a half.
After many stops and starts trying to work out rocker arm and push rod issues, I happy to report these issues have finally been resolved. I purchased the heads and rocker arms 2nd hand from a guy that bought a bunch of parts but never built the motor, so the parts were essentially brand new but that didn’t eliminate potential problems.
Problem #1: The 3/8” pushrods were rubbing the heads as they passed through the pushrod holes; solution – buy 5/16” pushrods.
Problem #2: Finding 5/16” guide plates that fit 7/16” rocker arm studs; solution #1 – buy Isky adjustable guide plates.
Problem #3: The adjustable guide plates didn’t hold the rockers straight; solution #3 – buy 5/16” guide plates for 3/8” studs and drill them out to fit 7/16” studs.
Problem #4: The 5/16” guide plates were too thin allowing the rocker arm studs to bottom out in the head; solution – add grade 8 washers to shim up the rocker studs.
Problem #5: Poly locks were too short to fit the rocker arms, hex head caused interference when the rocker arm moved through it’s travel; solution – buy ARP 12-point poly locks to fit inside the rocker arm.
Problem#6: ARP poly locks had a ring around them that also interfered with the rocker arm; solution – buy no-name poly lock off eBay that fits inside the rocker arm. Problem #7: one rocker arm is cracked at the roller tip; solution – get replacement rocker from Howard’s Cams.
Sorry for the novel, but the moral of the story is always use the poly locks that come with the rocker arms – LOL. I have to give shout out to Howard’s Cams for replacing the cracked rocker arm. Their lifetime warranty only applies to the original owner and since I bought these second-hand, I was fully expecting them to sell me a replacement; but they replaced it under the warranty without question. That’s excellent customer service!
Here’s some pics:
3/8" Pushrods rubbing the head
Crooked rocker arms
5/16" guide plates with grade 8 washer so studs don't bottom out in the head
Last edited by cdrod; November 26th, 2017 at 11:07 AM.
Reason: content
After getting the rocker arms sorted out, I moved on to priming the engine. I cut off an old HEI distributor that had been through a car fire and ground the teeth off the gear to make an oil pump priming tool. This worked really well. The engine has been sitting on a stand in my garage since 2015 so I thought it might be a good idea to flush the oil galleys to purge any contaminants. So, I chucked the cut-down distributor in my power drill and slowly primed the oil galleys without the lifters installed until I saw oil flowing out of each lifter bore, then added lifters one pair at a time starting at the right rear and working counter-clockwise until all 16 lifters were installed. I couldn’t get any oil up to the rocker arms, but maybe this can’t be primed without the engine actually running. Don’t the lifters “pump” the oil up the pushrods?
Old distributor converted into an oil priming tool.
5/16" guide plates drilled out to fit 7/16" rocker studs. The washers are shims to keep the studs from bottoming out in the head.
Last edited by cdrod; November 26th, 2017 at 02:06 PM.
Reason: Add pics
You should get oil up there.
And another type of primer is even easier. A simple 1/4" drive socket driver that you put in a drill with an extension and 5/16" socket.
Ran into another wrinkle today. I bought an iron distributor gear from Summit (PN 850006-12) that I thought would work with the roller cam. I'm using an Accel distributor (PN 52103) and the gear that came on the distributor has a roll pin that is .126" dia; but the Summit iron gear is drilled for a much larger roll pin. When I install the Summit gear it's very loose; the gear moves on the shaft about 1/16". It's difficult to measure the hole in the Summit gear but it seems to be about .160" dia.
I double checked the Summit part number and it's supposed to fit '68-'76 Olds...but the gear is made in China! Maybe the Accel distributor doesn't use the same size roll pin as a stock distributor? I could drill the distributor shaft to accept a larger roll pin that fits the Summit gear, but not sure I want to do that. Is there another source for a Melonized gear to work with a roller cam? What should I do?
It's a gear for a factory distributor, using a .490 shaft. The Accel 52103 has a .500 shaft, so it's the wrong gear.
Remind me what type of cam you're running again? If it's a hyd roller, or solid roller, you need a bronze gear, unless it specifically states you can use a standard iron type gear.
HWYSTR455:
It's not the distributor shaft that is too large or the shaft hole in the gear; it's the roll pin that holds the gear onto the shaft. The Accel shaft measures .490" (which I think is a stock diameter) and the Summit gear fits snuggly as you would expect, but the hole for the roll pin is too large which allows the gear to slip when you turn the rotor. I think it's a Chinese manufacturing QC issue. I've compared the Accel gear to a known stock gear and the roll pins are the same size. The roll pin hole in the Summit gear is just too large to hold the gear in place without drilling the distributor for a bigger roll pin.
I did a little web research today after I got home from church. The Accel website says their distributor gears will work with stock flat tappet cams and factory roller cams; not sure if that applies to my Lunati cam. Lunati sells a bronze gear for about $100, but they don't describe the metallurgy. It seems that some of the bronze gears in the market place are soft and will wear down quickly, and they are not recommended if your using a HV oil pump. I'm using a stock pump so that should help, but it's a little concerning that the distributor gear could sacrifice itself in as little as 20,000 miles. Some gears have 5% nickel content, I guess for increased wear resistance. Is there something called Ampco 45 that has greater wear resistance? I'd like a gear with an OEM (factory) lifespan. This will be going into my daily driver, not too keen on the idea of replacing the distributor gear as "maintenance" item.
Last edited by cdrod; December 10th, 2017 at 07:17 PM.
The ONLY cam that I can think of that is hyd roller, that can use a factory iron gear is the Crane hyd rollers, no other that I can think of has cores that support them. If it specifically doesn't say in the documentation for the cam, then you need a bronze type gear.
What's the part number on the cam?
True too on the material used on bronze gears, and I always tell people to use the ones that specifically state they are compatible with HV pumps. In general, they last 100k miles on the street, with very few exceptions.
If you're using the 52103 Accel distributor, the one I had less than 2 years ago had a .500 shaft. If you measured yours and you are CERTAIN it's a .490 shaft, then that's the type of distributor gear you need.
Accel to my knowledge does not make a bronze gear that's compatible with HV pumps. I always use the MSD gears.
HWYSTR455:
The cam is Lunati #20429909. I'll pull the gear off the distributor tonight and double check the diameter. My distributor is 5-6 years old, it could be they changed the shaft size in later production units. Can you tell me more about the dot on the gear and the rotor phasing issues? How do I know which way the dot faces? Thanks!
Rodney
Last edited by cdrod; December 11th, 2017 at 09:28 AM.
Since it's not common for that feature, since it relies on the core, and the potential for excessive wear, manufacturers are pretty driven to note that. Reason they say 'some factory hyd rollers' is because some come with the iron gear on the core, but that's mostly chebbies. If you look at the description of the gear you bought, it says ' hyd and mechanical cams', no mention of roller.
There's usually a dot, or dimple on the gear, and that should line up with where the rotor points. That's for rotor phasing, and although they are not perfect, it's closer than if it were phased 180 out.
I originally searched specifically for cams that allow the standard iron gear, because I couldn't find any bronze gears that are compatible with HV pumps for Olds. The only cam manufacturer that I found that has those types of cores for Olds was Crane. Maybe on a custom grind there are cores, but I remember calling multiple manufacturers asking about the gears and all I called said no go.
Look for comments on gears that say something like 'not intented for extended street use' or ' not for use with HV pumps', those you should stay away from.
That shaft is hardened, good luck trying to drill it, would take considerable time, and would wear out a drill bit or two.
You can't drill a hole in the gear, it messes up the rotor phasing. That's why there's a dot on the gear.
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I have to disagree. You can choose any position for dist.gear related to camshaft and then tune by rotating the distributor. Of course you have to have the plug wires wired right. I don't see any problem there. Sure it's easier to drill the gear vs. shaft.
About this cam gear material vs. hydr. roller cam, I asked from Howards about this and they told I can use whatever material I prefer. That was a bit surprising to me. Not sure if that applies to Lunati hyd. roller or not.
I have to disagree. You can choose any position for dist.gear related to camshaft and then tune by rotating the distributor. Of course you have to have the plug wires wired right. I don't see any problem there. Sure it's easier to drill the gear vs. shaft.
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Google 'rotor phasing' for an explanation. It's most optimum to have the 'trigger' fire when the rotor is pointing at the plug tower in the cap.
All Comp and Lunati hyd roller cams are made from a SADI core. They don't have a pressed on gear etc. This core will accept virtually any dist gear.
That's news to me, but if that's so, that's great news. Sure makes life easier. Kind of.
Cast cores can bend, and I have heard that it's actually fairly common to get a bent one, and that one should check just to be sure, on new cast core cams. That's why many pro engine builders prefer billet cores.
I wasn't aware that if the gear was pressed on it needed a bronze gear? I thought billet cores can have the option to have a cast gear pressed on, and that allows the use of an iron gear. Make no sense to me to go the other way, and have a gear pressed on that requires a bronze gear.
Not sure where you're getting your information, but it seems to be incorrect. Cast Cores don't typically bend, they break. Billet Cores will bend.
When it comes to Oldsmobile's, both comp cams and Lunati use the same core. As mentioned it's a Sadi core. That means select austempered ductile iron. And the only steel core that was ever offered for Oldsmobile hydraulic roller cams, was made by crane. It was an 8620 material with a pressed on cast iron gear. I know, I have one in my car currently.
Crane owned the foundry where that Core was made. They have since sold that foundry to Callies. Callies no longer makes that core. So the best core out there right now in my opinion is the Sadi core that both Comp and Lunati use. Hope this helps.
Last edited by cutlassefi; December 12th, 2017 at 10:48 AM.
Cast cores can bend, I've personally seen it. Comp Cams uses cores from Engine Power Components, Lunati uses cores from Camshaft Machine Company. And that info is straight from Harold B. (you can debate with him if you like).
The offshore SADI cores is what started the whole 'ZDDP' BS debate, grinders blamed the oil for the core issues.
If you order a custom grind from just about any cam co, especially a 'race' grind, I don't think any will grind it on a cast 8620 SADI core. (liability)
8620 can be a cast core or billet. The cast cores are the ones most commonly used for hyd flat tappet, and those are the ones I've seen bent. If you ever hear that someone had trouble installing, binding, or had to 'clearance' their' cam bearings, I would bet a 12 pack that the core is bent.
The grind number on the Crane I have has an 'IG' notation (HR-222/339-2S-12 IG), meaning integrated gear, and yes, pressed on. Pointless to go through the trouble to press a gear on if you still needed to use a bronze dizzy gear.
ALL my custom Lunati and Comp hyd roller cams have been done on SADI Cores. We’ll just leave it at that.
In addition you may want to speak with David Popp the chief engineer at Topline Hylift lifters. He’ll give you a different version of the ZDDP issue. Just sayin.
And I’m wondering if by Harold B you mean Harold Brookshire? If so it’ll be a little difficult to reach him as he’s dead, has been for a few years. Good riddance too as he was a convicted pedophile anyway. Total pos.
Last edited by cutlassefi; December 12th, 2017 at 02:00 PM.
Wow, didn't know that about Harold Brookshire, then yes, good riddance. I think on my 424 I will go roller cam along with Procomp heads. Of this means I will only get the short block done this year.
Last edited by olds 307 and 403; December 12th, 2017 at 02:40 PM.
ALL my custom Lunati and Comp hyd roller cams have been done on SADI Cores.
So, If I understand all the info presented in the last few posts; My custom Lunati grind (purchased from Mark) is a SADI core and I don't need a bronze, composite, mellonized, or otherwise special distributor gear with this cam. ???
Am I OK to use the cast gear that came with my Accel distributor? I really don't want to screw this up!!!
Last edited by cdrod; December 12th, 2017 at 03:41 PM.
Mark:
Can you make a recommendation for the Mellonized gear? The one I purchased from Summit has the oversized roll pin issue I posted about earlier. It doesn't look like Lunati, Comp or Crane sells a Mellonized gear for Oldsmobile.
I confirmed the diameter of the Accel distributor today: it's a stock size, 0.491". I can't seem to find a mellonized gear that fits Olds distributors. I've read that the best bronze gears are made from Ampco45 material that has 5% nickel content, but I'm still unsure what the life expectancy of this gear would be. I called PolyDyne Coatings today (they're local to me) to see if they have a coating that could make the bronze gear more durable. Their best recommendation was to spray a dry-film lubricant on Bronze gear although, I'm not sure I understand how this would address the incompatibility between the two metals. I'm also a little concerned about screwing up the "mesh" between the cam & distributor gears. Maybe I'm over-thinking this but I will not be happy if I have to change this gear in 20k miles.
Otherwise you can use a stock iron gear. These just wear better that's all.
HWY - I'm guessing you didn't know Harold B was dead cuz you've just become awfully quiet.
Just because he told you something years ago doesn't mean that it still holds true today. He may have been a good cam guy, in the past, but not in his later years.
Thanks for the gear recommendation, I ordered the gear last night should and be at my door by Dec 20. I hope the picture doesn't do it justice! It looks pretty rough.
Ran into a few more snags:
Snag #1. The power steering pump hits the head on the driver's side. I guess the aluminum heads are longer than iron heads. Looks like I need about 1/4" more clearance to get the pulleys and brackets to line up properly. The return line is in the center of the back and doesn't have enough room to turn sideways before hitting the head. I did some web research on RockAuto.com but couldn't find a pump with the hose connections in better locations. So this morning I dropped it off at the local rebuilder who rebuilt this pump and converted my variable ratio Saginaw gear box to a fixed 12:1 ratio. They're gonna look for a different reservoir housing that exits on the side. Worst case scenario, they will modify the housing to clear the head.
Snag#2: The Accel Super Coil I bought 3 years ago has leaked some of the oil. I wondered why the box looked kinda dark, it had soaked up most of the oil that leaked. I'm gonna call Summit where I bought the coil but I doubt I will get any satisfaction. Kinda sucks that it didn't last even 3 years! It's been sitting on a shelf in my garage all this time-hardly a hostile environment, I wonder how long it would have lasted on a running engine in Houston summer heat?
Last edited by cdrod; December 14th, 2017 at 05:11 PM.
Reason: fix pics
Snag#2: The Accel Super Coil I bought 3 years ago has leaked some of the oil. I wondered why the box looked kinda dark, it had soaked up most of the oil that leaked. I'm gonna call Summit where I bought the coil but I doubt I will get any satisfaction. Kinda sucks that it didn't last even 3 years! It's been sitting on a shelf in my garage all this time-hardly a hostile environment, I wonder how long it would have lasted on a running engine in Houston summer heat?
The same thing happened to me a couple of years ago (Accel Super Stock coil, on the shelf for 3 years). No warranty... Been running a Pertronix epoxi coil without problems for the last four years now.
Ran into a few more snags:
Snag #1. The power steering pump hits the head on the driver's side. I guess the aluminum heads are longer than iron heads. Looks like I need about 1/4" more clearance to get the pulleys and brackets to line up properly. The return line is in the center of the back and doesn't have enough room to turn sideways before hitting the head. I did some web research on RockAuto.com but couldn't find a pump with the hose connections in better locations. So this morning I dropped it off at the local rebuilder who rebuilt this pump and converted my variable ratio Saginaw gear box to a fixed 12:1 ratio. They're gonna look for a different reservoir housing that exits on the side. Worst case scenario, they will modify the housing to clear the head.
I had this same issue with Edelbrock heads. Solved it by spacing the pump outwards to meet the outer groove in the crank pulley. Works fine.
March 29th, 2016, 04:22 PM
Been running a Pertronix epoxi coil without problems for the last four years now.
