HEADER POBLEM holding up my car completion

[69sAndrew]

Hey guys, my car is stuck. They guys at the shop are trrying to get my headers on, but they said they do not fit. I am sure they are olds headers, but was there two different blocks? Is there such a thing as a 350 rocket sb and 350 rocket bb???? If not, does anyone know the years they should fit from?

Thanks,

Andrew

[Oldsmaniac]

Olds small blocks and big blocks have the same exhaust bolt pattern on the heads so a small block header will bolt to a BB head and the reverse is also true. There are no BB 350's. I suspect you do not have a Olds engine in your car or the headers are not for an Olds.

[don71]

The deck height is different between the small block and big block engines. Yes the heads share the same bolt dimensions.

1968-1972 should innerchange as far as the frame is concerned.

In theory you could install big block headers on your small block, though they would hang extremly low below the frame.

In no way could you put small block headers on a big block. They'll touch the lower block before you could get them bolted down. The starter would never fit.

Tell us exactly where the fitment problems are.

[69sAndrew]

I guess, and I dont know for sure until i go down there, but they are hitting from the point where they turn into 1 pipe, all the way to the flange. He said the are hitting the transmission.

I need a cheap set for now, any idea where to get a cheap set? I have chrome powder coated ones now.

Thanks again,

Andrew

[z11375ss]

I have a very nice set for sale in the parts section.

[69sAndrew]

THey look almost identical to the ones I have now. I know I have an olds motor as well. Hmmmm *scratching head*

Kinda stuck here.

[joe_padavano]

Headers for big block and small block Olds motors are definitely different and usually do not interchange. The exhaust flanges are the same, and the headers will bolt to the heads with the engine out of the car, but if you try to install big block headers on a small block, the headers will hit the chassis crossmember or motor mounts due to the taller primary tubes. Similarly if you try to install small block headers on a big block, you can run into problems with the tubes hitting the steering shaft and the heater box due to the shorter primary tubes. In addition, small block headers on a big block usually don't clear the bottom of the firewall.

[JSGD1966]

Hey Andrew. I also have a set of Hooker Competition headers still for sale in the parts forum, but wanted to let you know, that for a reason unknown to me, the Hooker headers specifies that they will not fit Cutlass S models. I am not sure why, but that may be the issue you are facing. You may have Olds headers and and Olds engine, but I found some headers will not fit the "S" model. I did find Hedman Hedders 58166 shorty headers says it will fit the "S". Take a look and see if they will work for you. Good luck.

[joe_padavano]

Originally Posted by JSGD1966

...but I found some headers will not fit the "S" model. I did find Hedman Hedders 58166 shorty headers says it will fit the "S". Take a look and see if they will work for you. Good luck.

That's hilarious. Usually the footnote says they won't fit Supremes or convertibles. Despite what any header catalog says, within a generation (64-67, 68-72, etc) the frames, motor mounts, engine location, suspension, and anything else is IDENTICAL forward of the firewall for all permutations of Cutlii - 442, S, Supreme, 4dr, wagon, Vista, F85, whatever. If the headers fit one, they will fit all within the same year span. If the headers have problems, they will have problems with all. Period.

[Olds64]

within a generation (64-67, 68-72, etc) the frames, motor mounts, engine location, suspension, and anything else is IDENTICAL

Joe, I was wondering if the same is true for the bigger cars? I know the B bodies and C bodies are very similar in the late 60s to mid 70s. I was wondering if the Delta 88 headers (found below) might fit the C bodies? Not that I would use them, it is just neat since there are fewer peformance parts like headers for the B bodies.

http://www.dougsheaders.com/prod/ex/...ngerCarHeaders

[joe_padavano]

Originally Posted by Olds64

Joe, I was wondering if the same is true for the bigger cars? I know the B bodies and C bodies are very similar in the late 60s to mid 70s. I was wondering if the Delta 88 headers (found below) might fit the C bodies? Not that I would use them, it is just neat since there are fewer peformance parts like headers for the B bodies.

http://www.dougsheaders.com/prod/ex/...ngerCarHeaders

Well, with the exception of the 64-66 J88 cars, that should be true. As far as I can tell, the differences between B and C body frames is mainly wheelbase (ignoring spring and shock tuning). 65-70 and 71-76 families should be the same, at least forward of the firewall.

[z11375ss]

I had to change headers when I went from an auto to a 4 speed. They just would not fit right.

[69sAndrew]

So might I have standard tranny headers? Is that possible Joe? If I get a pick of them, can you tell if they are olds headers? I looked on summit and the pic they have of olds headers, looks just like the headers I have. Really stuck here on what to order to fix my problem.

[joe_padavano]

Originally Posted by 69sAndrew

So might I have standard tranny headers? Is that possible Joe? If I get a pick of them, can you tell if they are olds headers? I looked on summit and the pic they have of olds headers, looks just like the headers I have. Really stuck here on what to order to fix my problem.

Some brands of headers do not clear the equalizer bar that operates the clutch. Similarly, some brands of headers do not clear the backdrive linkage that locks the shifter.

Look, the bottom line is that ALL headers have fitment problems. That's just life. Less expensive headers are worse - there's a reason why Kooks are so expensive. If you give us more information on the fit problems you're having, we might be able to provide better help.

[69sAndrew]

I'll go down there today and look at it first hand. After all, I am just going on what my buds at the shop are telling me. I'll try to snap a few pics as well.


THanks Joe,

A

[Olds64]

You might have to just get a torch and ball peen hammer and do some work with a BFH.

[69sAndrew]

Ok I went dwn there and they are def not headers for that car. THey are not even close. Sooo.. I am off to a local Cutlass guy close buy. He has a ton of parts and says he has two pairs of them. So I am taking mine to compare. Oh... found out another bit of good news, I was changing all the control arm bushings and found out my left front control arm is shot. The bushing hole has worn out... so this cutlass parts guy up here had one for me too lucky. Any idea what a control arm should go for?

I'll let you guys know how i make out with the headers too.

Thanks for all your help.

And if this doesnt work, I might just grab that BFH and smack the F*#$ out of it lol

[Olds64]

I didn't know control arms were wear items. Just replace the bushings. Then again, maybe I am confused.

[69sAndrew]

Well what happned, is the guy let the bushing wear out until there was no rubber left. So the where the bushing bolt goes through the arm it wore it out to the point where there is almost no metal left there. Go figure not changing a $12 bushing could create such damage... sheesh.

I'll have a whole bunch of pics when I get her back. Not totally impressed with the body and paint, but oh well you get what you pay for.

[Olds64]

BUMMER!

[z11375ss]

Buy my headers. You won't be dissapointed. Plus I could use the cash! LOL