Edelbrock Heads in way of pump

z11375ss · 04-29-2008, 06:27 PM

I installed some Edlbrock heads on my 68 small block and found the fuel pump does not fit now. I am in the process of grinding down the head to make it fit. I contacted Holley, Carter, Edelbrock, and Mr. Gasket for help regarding this. Has anyone found this? I was told the heads were for a 455 and hang off the block about an inch, not letting the fuel pump clear. If I run into a water jacket I will have the head welded. Since they're aluminum it is not a problem. I just thought it strange that they could sell the heads that fit my 350 and not have a warning or a solution to the problem. When I called Edelbrock they were like, "We don't know what to tell you".

Warhead · 04-29-2008, 06:43 PM

WARNING!!!!!

DO NOT GRIND THE HEAD down,you will go into water jacket before it will fit!
One of the guys on ROP did just that!
Another guy over there made an angle plate, and changed the angle on his pump arm to make it work.
You may also try RobbMC for one of his pumps.
Jim

z11375ss · 04-29-2008, 07:19 PM

Shit! Too late. Now I have to have the head welded which is not a big deal since they're aluminum. I contacted Robbperformance for a solution to my problem. Sent him an e-mail. Am waiting for a reply. Thanks all the same. Jim
Jeremy, thanks for the call.

J-(Chicago) · 04-29-2008, 08:32 PM

Sorry my call was too late to save the patient

Here's some pictures of an angled plate that was fabricated to clear the ebrock heads. You will also have to cut,grind and re weld the pump arm to make the angle correct again.

The stock pump would fit if you were using a 455

Small blocks are not as forgiving with those big boxy heads.

Oldsguy · 04-30-2008, 05:03 AM

So you purchased and installed Edelbrock aluminum heads designed for a 455 onto a 350? Why? And if the answer is performance then why didn't you just go to an electric fuel pump set up?

The_Jeremiah · 04-30-2008, 11:09 AM

I agree, thats what i would have done. None the less its good to get that info out there. I believe in keeping it simple lol

captjim · 04-30-2008, 06:51 PM

Just to clarify, the reason the heads hit on a sbo is the deck is taller on the BBO, so the head does not hit. OE heads have a small recess, why Edelbrock did not put this in their head is a mystery to me.

Another issue with E-brocks on a 350 is that with the stock 75 cc chamber, flat tops, and .040 piston to head, Cr is only 9.7, not really enough to get aggressive with the cam, and not enough for all that extra port volume. IMHO.

z11375ss · 04-30-2008, 07:04 PM

Well, to answer the question as to why I would put those heads on a small block is that I wanted the Performer package that Edlebrock offered on the motor. The motor was built for me not by me. I have used this setup on two chevys and found the performance was what I expected and was looking for. I expected Edlebrock to make a product that was compatible with my stock fuel pump. I don't think this is too much to ask, do you? There should be a disclaimer or warning or SOMETHING to warn users about this VERY big problem. Like I said when I called them they didn't know what to say.
As far as what will happen now, I plan to grind down the head until we have clearance for the pump. Then we get the head patched up with an aluminum weld. This is the plan and I will report back to tell all what happened. My guy tells me this will not be a problem to fix. He is Mr. Fabrication, building Outlaw cars and running one too. I have confidence he knows what he is doing.
Performance is a funny measure. This car will not be very fast unless compared to other small block oldsmobiles but the fun factor is way up with 400 horses and a 4 speed. Jeremy saw the car, it's realy clean and deserves all the attention it is getting. Wish me luck! P.S. Capn the pistons are larger than stock. I asked for a cr of 10 to 1. Like I said the motor has cost me a decent amount of $ I could've built a chevy and been like a million other guys but I have to do the Olds. Dare to be different.

Oldsguy · 05-01-2008, 05:19 AM

I sure commend you for wanting to stay with the Oldsmobile power plant. I can understand your confusion after building a number of Chevrolet engines using the performer package and hoping the same tactic would apply to your Oldsmobile. I didn't know Oldsmobile offered a performer package that included the heads as well, seems weird that they wouldn't specify that the heads were for a 455 right up front. I hope your welder can fix you up. Good luck.

88 coupe · 05-01-2008, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by z11375ss

........ I wanted the Performer package that Edlebrock offered on the motor .........

The heads are not part of any “package” and they were not designed for use on a 350.

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_...bile_rpm.shtml

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edelbrock

Street Legal & Street High-Performance Heads

Performer RPM Olds

Designed for high-performance non-emission 1965-76 Olds 400, 425 and 455 c.i.d. V8s ........

Edelbrock uses the terms “Performer” “RPM” and “Victor” to define the differences in the “power levels” of their offerings. Any Edelbrock dealer (machine shop) should already know, that because both 455 and 350 parts fall into the same classification, it does not automatically make them compatible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by z11375ss

........ I expected Edlebrock to make a product that was compatible with my stock fuel pump ........

I would not expect any issues when using a part that was designed for the intended (400/425/455) application.

Quote:

Originally Posted by z11375ss

........ I don't think this is too much to ask, do you? ........

Not if the heads were designed for use on a 350.

Quote:

Originally Posted by z11375ss

........ I plan to grind down the head until we have clearance for the pump. Then we get the head patched ........

That would be the way I would do it, if I chose to use a mechanical pump, on a 350.

Norm

kaz442 · 05-01-2008, 11:52 AM

The RobMc pump won't work with the E-brocks. I bought a brand new set of E-brocks from Rob himself because he couldn't have an Olds without one of his pumps. JKaz

Redog · 05-01-2008, 08:30 PM

So what about stock C heads on a 350? will this be a problem with them too?

Oldsguy · 05-02-2008, 04:26 AM

C heads aren't stock for the Small Block Olds, they are for Big Block Olds.

Rallye469 · 05-02-2008, 05:42 AM

What's the chamber on a C head...80cc's?
It will take a big bite out compression.

And 10:1 pistons won't give you 10:1 if you changed the heads
from SBO to BBO.

Oldsguy · 05-02-2008, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rallye469

What's the chamber on a C head...80cc's?
It will take a big bite out compression.

And 10:1 pistons won't give you 10:1 if you changed the heads
from SBO to BBO.

Yes, 80cc

70oldsW30 · 05-02-2008, 09:13 AM

My son has been dead set on buying the Edelbrock Performer RPM package that they list for the 350 - 403 olds. This is excellent information to have before he gets into it. Thanks.

I agree that it is a bit misleading to list something that is, by itself, described as being designed for the 400-455 together in a package that is spcifically shown to be for the small block right in there with the intake manifold that can only fit the small block.

gearheads78 · 05-02-2008, 11:06 AM

I was under the impression that a mechanical pump won't clean on a BBO either. Mine came off a 425 and one has been grinded and welded up.

z11375ss · 05-02-2008, 09:14 PM

88. Can you see the confusion with the head cam intake package? I didn't think I was imagining things. They do offer a package for the small block with no warning. I really just assumed they did. That's why I thought it would fit with no problems and give me the performance that I wanted Truly a problem that should be addressed by Edlebrock.

59-59-59 · 05-02-2008, 10:52 PM

I am not knocking Edelbrock - in fact I think they put out excellent products as i have bought 5 or 6 carbs from them as well as other odds and ends - but the way they list the Performer package is misleading. It basically reads that it is good for 400 - 455 Olds motors. IT IS NOT . I almost got screwed putting this package in an early 425 for my '57 until someone tells me it is the wrong cam and wrong lifters. I thought I was crazy cause 400 -455 ( at least to me ) means 400 through 455. WRONG! The lifters are bigger and the angle of how the pushrods sit are at a different angle compared to later engines. A little clarification on Edelbrocks part could of worked

z11375ss · 05-03-2008, 06:14 AM

Anything to do with Oldsmobile has an asterisk attached to it. The parts are more expensive and are limited in application. Sometimes there are hidden problems such as the one we are discussing. I restored a 69 W-30 in 1990. That was when they were not repopping ANYTHING! It was tough but good things come to those who work hard. It turned out beautifully. No thanks to the parts guys. My grills were in about 10 pieces and were glued together to make them good. As you know the grill on a 442 is different than a Cutlass. I had to use it rather than the 10,000 grills I found from Cutlasses. I have owned many chevys and still do, but when I pull in the lot with an under the bumper Ram AIr car people freak. I even had one guy comment on my nicely done "Homemade Ram Air". I told him it was in fact, factory. He looked closer and as they say was "Amazed". LOL

Rallye469 · 05-04-2008, 07:06 AM

That's crazy...
That listing had no astericks or anything???
I always thought they placed a note next to the heads warning people about using them on SBO's...maybe low sales made them stop that practice.

And the 425 conundrum... well that's always a pit fall. The 39 vs. 45 degree lifter bank angle mixed with .921 & .842 lifters makes those engines tricky to just pick up and start building.

Rallye469 · 05-04-2008, 07:12 AM

That's crazy...
That listing had no astericks or anything???
I always thought they placed a note next to the heads warning people about using them on SBO's...maybe low sales made them stop that practice.

And the 425 conundrum... well that's always a pit fall. The 39 vs. 45 degree lifter bank angle mixed with .921 & .842 lifters makes those engines tricky to just pick up and start building.

Warhead · 05-04-2008, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rallye469

What's the chamber on a C head...80cc's?
It will take a big bite out compression.

And 10:1 pistons won't give you 10:1 if you changed the heads
from SBO to BBO.

They will give you the same compression that a #8 head will.

You may have to deal with the fact they have larger valves, too!

Rallye469 · 05-04-2008, 03:24 PM

I show 8 heads having 1.875 intake, 1.622 exhaust valves...
seems standard, no?

z11375ss · 06-14-2008, 10:36 PM

OK. Today the car ran for the first time since I don't know when. I had the head that was in the way of the fuel pump grinded and welded. No leaks. The car sounds incredible. The cam is lopey but not too much. Very minor things to finish tomorrow. The car drives right now. 4 speed works beautifully. I will post pics asap. From the head grind to the interior with the new shifter. The car looks really tough. The only thing I don't like is the fact that it doesn't look like a stock engine anymore, but what the hey. I'm so excited I feel like a little kid on Christmas eve. LOL! HAPPY FATHER'S DAY (myself included, three daughters, please LORD help me).

citcapp · 06-16-2008, 04:30 PM

I put edelbrock heads on my 455 and had to grind an 1/8" notch to clear a stock fuel pump. In my case I did not hit the water jacket. I tried two different brands of fuel pump and had the same problem with both. I have not contacted edelbrock yet but I am going to I thought it was strange because the fuel pump did not hit the G heads that came with the engine, they are shorter in that area.

04-29-2008, 06:27 PM	#1 (permalink)
z11375ss Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Chicago Posts: 117	Edelbrock Heads in way of pump I installed some Edlbrock heads on my 68 small block and found the fuel pump does not fit now. I am in the process of grinding down the head to make it fit. I contacted Holley, Carter, Edelbrock, and Mr. Gasket for help regarding this. Has anyone found this? I was told the heads were for a 455 and hang off the block about an inch, not letting the fuel pump clear. If I run into a water jacket I will have the head welded. Since they're aluminum it is not a problem. I just thought it strange that they could sell the heads that fit my 350 and not have a warning or a solution to the problem. When I called Edelbrock they were like, "We don't know what to tell you". __________________

04-29-2008, 06:43 PM	#2 (permalink)
Warhead Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 87	WARNING!!!!! DO NOT GRIND THE HEAD down,you will go into water jacket before it will fit! One of the guys on ROP did just that! Another guy over there made an angle plate, and changed the angle on his pump arm to make it work. You may also try RobbMC for one of his pumps. Jim Last edited by Warhead : 04-29-2008 at 06:46 PM.

04-29-2008, 07:19 PM	#3 (permalink)
z11375ss Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Chicago Posts: 117	Shit! Too late. Now I have to have the head welded which is not a big deal since they're aluminum. I contacted Robbperformance for a solution to my problem. Sent him an e-mail. Am waiting for a reply. Thanks all the same. Jim Jeremy, thanks for the call. __________________ Last edited by z11375ss : 04-29-2008 at 07:21 PM.

04-30-2008, 05:03 AM	#5 (permalink)
Oldsguy Administrator Join Date: May 2004 Location: Lees Summit MO Posts: 2,859	So you purchased and installed Edelbrock aluminum heads designed for a 455 onto a 350? Why? And if the answer is performance then why didn't you just go to an electric fuel pump set up? __________________ Dan '46 2 door

04-30-2008, 11:09 AM	#6 (permalink)
The_Jeremiah Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 243	I agree, thats what i would have done. None the less its good to get that info out there. I believe in keeping it simple lol __________________ 69 Cutlass 4 door. Built 350 inside, grandma's grocery getter outside. Best sleeper in disguise.

04-30-2008, 06:51 PM	#7 (permalink)
captjim Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 122	Just to clarify, the reason the heads hit on a sbo is the deck is taller on the BBO, so the head does not hit. OE heads have a small recess, why Edelbrock did not put this in their head is a mystery to me. Another issue with E-brocks on a 350 is that with the stock 75 cc chamber, flat tops, and .040 piston to head, Cr is only 9.7, not really enough to get aggressive with the cam, and not enough for all that extra port volume. IMHO.

04-30-2008, 07:04 PM	#8 (permalink)
z11375ss Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Chicago Posts: 117	Well, to answer the question as to why I would put those heads on a small block is that I wanted the Performer package that Edlebrock offered on the motor. The motor was built for me not by me. I have used this setup on two chevys and found the performance was what I expected and was looking for. I expected Edlebrock to make a product that was compatible with my stock fuel pump. I don't think this is too much to ask, do you? There should be a disclaimer or warning or SOMETHING to warn users about this VERY big problem. Like I said when I called them they didn't know what to say. As far as what will happen now, I plan to grind down the head until we have clearance for the pump. Then we get the head patched up with an aluminum weld. This is the plan and I will report back to tell all what happened. My guy tells me this will not be a problem to fix. He is Mr. Fabrication, building Outlaw cars and running one too. I have confidence he knows what he is doing. Performance is a funny measure. This car will not be very fast unless compared to other small block oldsmobiles but the fun factor is way up with 400 horses and a 4 speed. Jeremy saw the car, it's realy clean and deserves all the attention it is getting. Wish me luck! P.S. Capn the pistons are larger than stock. I asked for a cr of 10 to 1. Like I said the motor has cost me a decent amount of $ I could've built a chevy and been like a million other guys but I have to do the Olds. Dare to be different. __________________ Last edited by z11375ss : 04-30-2008 at 07:08 PM.

05-01-2008, 05:19 AM	#9 (permalink)
Oldsguy Administrator Join Date: May 2004 Location: Lees Summit MO Posts: 2,859	I sure commend you for wanting to stay with the Oldsmobile power plant. I can understand your confusion after building a number of Chevrolet engines using the performer package and hoping the same tactic would apply to your Oldsmobile. I didn't know Oldsmobile offered a performer package that included the heads as well, seems weird that they wouldn't specify that the heads were for a 455 right up front. I hope your welder can fix you up. Good luck. __________________ Dan '46 2 door

05-01-2008, 11:52 AM	#11 (permalink)
kaz442 Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: NJ Posts: 27	The RobMc pump won't work with the E-brocks. I bought a brand new set of E-brocks from Rob himself because he couldn't have an Olds without one of his pumps. JKaz __________________ 72 442 conv. 455 +.060 th400 3.31 12 bolt 70 F85 490 stroker, th400 3.73 12 bolt 87 Buick GN

05-01-2008, 08:30 PM	#12 (permalink)
Redog Alero Chapter Secretary Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Newtown, PA Posts: 699	So what about stock C heads on a 350? will this be a problem with them too? __________________ Me 2000 Alero running 14's 1985 Delta 88 w/1968 350 rocket 2005 Nissan Altima (her's)

05-02-2008, 04:26 AM	#13 (permalink)
Oldsguy Administrator Join Date: May 2004 Location: Lees Summit MO Posts: 2,859	C heads aren't stock for the Small Block Olds, they are for Big Block Olds. __________________ Dan '46 2 door

05-02-2008, 05:42 AM	#14 (permalink)
Rallye469 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 223	What's the chamber on a C head...80cc's? It will take a big bite out compression. And 10:1 pistons won't give you 10:1 if you changed the heads from SBO to BBO. __________________ '70 Rallye 350 '65 F-85 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCw-JmwNGZQ

05-02-2008, 11:06 AM	#17 (permalink)
gearheads78 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Dallas TX Posts: 159	I was under the impression that a mechanical pump won't clean on a BBO either. Mine came off a 425 and one has been grinded and welded up. __________________ 66 Cutlass ragtop my way

05-02-2008, 09:14 PM	#18 (permalink)
z11375ss Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Chicago Posts: 117	88. Can you see the confusion with the head cam intake package? I didn't think I was imagining things. They do offer a package for the small block with no warning. I really just assumed they did. That's why I thought it would fit with no problems and give me the performance that I wanted Truly a problem that should be addressed by Edlebrock. __________________

05-02-2008, 10:52 PM	#19 (permalink)
59-59-59 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 183	I am not knocking Edelbrock - in fact I think they put out excellent products as i have bought 5 or 6 carbs from them as well as other odds and ends - but the way they list the Performer package is misleading. It basically reads that it is good for 400 - 455 Olds motors. IT IS NOT . I almost got screwed putting this package in an early 425 for my '57 until someone tells me it is the wrong cam and wrong lifters. I thought I was crazy cause 400 -455 ( at least to me ) means 400 through 455. WRONG! The lifters are bigger and the angle of how the pushrods sit are at a different angle compared to later engines. A little clarification on Edelbrocks part could of worked

05-03-2008, 06:14 AM	#20 (permalink)
z11375ss Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Chicago Posts: 117	Anything to do with Oldsmobile has an asterisk attached to it. The parts are more expensive and are limited in application. Sometimes there are hidden problems such as the one we are discussing. I restored a 69 W-30 in 1990. That was when they were not repopping ANYTHING! It was tough but good things come to those who work hard. It turned out beautifully. No thanks to the parts guys. My grills were in about 10 pieces and were glued together to make them good. As you know the grill on a 442 is different than a Cutlass. I had to use it rather than the 10,000 grills I found from Cutlasses. I have owned many chevys and still do, but when I pull in the lot with an under the bumper Ram AIr car people freak. I even had one guy comment on my nicely done "Homemade Ram Air". I told him it was in fact, factory. He looked closer and as they say was "Amazed". LOL __________________

05-04-2008, 07:06 AM	#21 (permalink)
Rallye469 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 223	That's crazy... That listing had no astericks or anything??? I always thought they placed a note next to the heads warning people about using them on SBO's...maybe low sales made them stop that practice. And the 425 conundrum... well that's always a pit fall. The 39 vs. 45 degree lifter bank angle mixed with .921 & .842 lifters makes those engines tricky to just pick up and start building. __________________ '70 Rallye 350 '65 F-85 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCw-JmwNGZQ

05-04-2008, 07:12 AM	#22 (permalink)
Rallye469 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 223	That's crazy... That listing had no astericks or anything??? I always thought they placed a note next to the heads warning people about using them on SBO's...maybe low sales made them stop that practice. And the 425 conundrum... well that's always a pit fall. The 39 vs. 45 degree lifter bank angle mixed with .921 & .842 lifters makes those engines tricky to just pick up and start building. __________________ '70 Rallye 350 '65 F-85 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCw-JmwNGZQ

05-04-2008, 03:24 PM	#24 (permalink)
Rallye469 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 223	I show 8 heads having 1.875 intake, 1.622 exhaust valves... seems standard, no? __________________ '70 Rallye 350 '65 F-85 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCw-JmwNGZQ

06-14-2008, 10:36 PM	#25 (permalink)
z11375ss Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Chicago Posts: 117	OK. Today the car ran for the first time since I don't know when. I had the head that was in the way of the fuel pump grinded and welded. No leaks. The car sounds incredible. The cam is lopey but not too much. Very minor things to finish tomorrow. The car drives right now. 4 speed works beautifully. I will post pics asap. From the head grind to the interior with the new shifter. The car looks really tough. The only thing I don't like is the fact that it doesn't look like a stock engine anymore, but what the hey. I'm so excited I feel like a little kid on Christmas eve. LOL! HAPPY FATHER'S DAY (myself included, three daughters, please LORD help me). __________________ Last edited by z11375ss : 06-14-2008 at 10:41 PM.

06-16-2008, 04:30 PM	#26 (permalink)
citcapp Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Bothell, WA Posts: 103	I put edelbrock heads on my 455 and had to grind an 1/8" notch to clear a stock fuel pump. In my case I did not hit the water jacket. I tried two different brands of fuel pump and had the same problem with both. I have not contacted edelbrock yet but I am going to I thought it was strange because the fuel pump did not hit the G heads that came with the engine, they are shorter in that area.