Blue Smoke From Exhaust Pipe

[54olds]

My '54 Olds 88 blows blue smoke out the tailpipe, mainly after it's had 4-5 minutes or so to warm up. It's not billowing, but steady. I did a compression check, and found readings of 120 on 6 cylinders and 110 on the other two. Are these normal readings for this car?

Am I correct in assuming the cause would be worn rings? Are there any other ways to determine what the cause could be? If it is rings, any idea what the general cost would be to have a garage do the work (It has a 324 Rocket motor) - this is a little bit beyond my expertise, I'm afraid

[Olds64]

110 psi and 120 psi isn't too much of a difference in compression. I would say that your rings are fine. It is probably just wear in the engine. To make sure you can do a cylinder leak down test. All you need for this is compressed air. What you do is put a cylinder at TDC with both valves closed and put the compressed air fitting onto the spark plug. Then you listen for the air from the exhaust, carburetor, crankcase, or look for bubbles in the radiator. This will tell you where the air is going and where your leak is at. They make special tools to do this but you can also do it with your own air compressor.

I wouldn't want to begin to imagine how expensive it would be to have a shop rebuild that engine for you. I don't even think you could find anyone to do it unless you know an old timer. A rebuild kit alone for that engine is over $1000.

[kevinkpk]

Originally Posted by 54olds

My '54 Olds 88 blows blue smoke out the tailpipe, mainly after it's had 4-5 minutes or so to warm up. It's not billowing, but steady. I did a compression check, and found readings of 120 on 6 cylinders and 110 on the other two. Are these normal readings for this car?

Am I correct in assuming the cause would be worn rings? Are there any other ways to determine what the cause could be? If it is rings, any idea what the general cost would be to have a garage do the work (It has a 324 Rocket motor) - this is a little bit beyond my expertise, I'm afraid

Yes, it could be worn rings, but the readings look good. I'd suspect valve seals.

[54olds]

Originally Posted by kevinkpk

Yes, it could be worn rings, but the readings look good. I'd suspect valve seals.

How difficult a job would replacing valve seals be, and is this something a shadetree mechanic can do?

[kevinkpk]

Originally Posted by 54olds

How difficult a job would replacing valve seals be, and is this something a shadetree mechanic can do?

well, you could remove the heads, and with a spring compressor remove valve springs, and install new seals. I have never done this and it might be a wives tale from years ago, but I have heard of compressed air into the cylinder, and removing the valve spring with the head in place, and replacing the seal. Worst case if it is valve seal, is removing heads. Blue smoke is burning oil, with the compression test readings, my guess is valve seals. What did the spark plugs look like when you removed them?

[kevinkpk]

Is this a flat head 8? Looking at the year

[jeffrey]

"Is this a flat head 8? Looking at the year"

'54 324 is an OHV V-8

Personally, I would suspect valve guides-seats as the culprit.

Do you run unleaded fuel? These valve trains were lubricated in part by Tetraethyl Lead, a gasoline additive (or survivor of Fractional Distillation).
And no longer readily available.

The absence of this can cause premature valve train wear in these engines.
"Premature" being a relative term in a 53 year old engine.
Jeff

[54olds]

Originally Posted by kevinkpk

What did the spark plugs look like when you removed them?

One of the plugs did have some oil on it, the others seemed OK.

[54olds]

[quote=jeffrey;19891Do you run unleaded fuel? These valve trains were lubricated in part by Tetraethyl Lead, a gasoline additive (or survivor of Fractional Distillation).
And no longer readily available.

The absence of this can cause premature valve train wear in these engines.
"Premature" being a relative term in a 53 year old engine.
Jeff[/quote]

I've only had the car for about 3 months, so it hasn't been run much. I did put about a half a tank of unleaded in it, but then I put in some aftermarket lead substitute as well.

[kevinkpk]

Originally Posted by 54olds

I've only had the car for about 3 months, so it hasn't been run much. I did put about a half a tank of unleaded in it, but then I put in some aftermarket lead substitute as well.

Well if your going to keep the car it might be best to invest in a valve job. I think the only factor in leaded vrs. unleaded is the valves. That would also elimenate valve seal as the "potential" problem with burning oil.

[marcar1993]

Just a word to the wise about the lead additive, years ago my dad ran that in his 1960slant 6. When he went to do a head swap, he found build up of the additive in the exhaust runners of the head. This is do to the fact that it isn't actually lead, but a substitute. If your keeping the car, and have problems with the valve seal, you may as well convert the heads to run on unleaded.

[J-(Chicago)]

It's all good, You can just buy this 54 88 concept car for 4 million dollars.

If you ask me.... It looks like a 4 million dollar catfish.

I just remembered....
Ozoneblue on here had a blue one of those for sale, perhaps he would be the most helpful with information on good repairs and parts.
http://www.vintageozarks.com/

Or you could just buy his and have 2!!!!!

[jeffrey]

Originally Posted by kevinkpk

Well if your going to keep the car it might be best to invest in a valve job. I think the only factor in leaded vrs. unleaded is the valves. That would also elimenate valve seal as the "potential" problem with burning oil.

I agree, Jeff

[PetChemMan]

Just to confirm that you're seeing oil smoke, don't confuse white smoke with blue or black smoke. White smoke can be just normal water vapor from the exhaust, especially before the exhaust system has fully warmed up. Lots of white smoke can indicate a cooling system leak into the combustion chambers. Black smoke indicates a rich fuel mixture . (I had a neighbor bring me his car with a complaint of engine missing and blue smoke out the exhaust on acceleration. I drove the car, and confirmed the symptoms. Knowing that the owner changed his own oil, I check the dipstick and found the oil level was way too high. I drained the crankcase, and found there had been 9 quarts of oil in a 4 quart crankcase ! That means he not only added 4 quarts of new oil before he drained out the old oil, but added one more quart too ! ) Yes, you can change the valve stem seals without removing the cylinder heads, a job I've done a couple of times. An old trick is to bring the piston up close to top dead center, and then stuff some rope into the spark plug hole, and then carefully bring the piston all the way up until it contacts the rope. Your valves will stay in place while you use a simple lever type valve spring compressor to remove the valve stem keepers. Since you have rocker shafts and not studs, you'll have to find fulcrum points to anchor the end of your compressor tool. I've built my own spring compressors out of strap steel for some jobs. Your cylinder compression figures sound pretty consistant , and you may not need a valve job.

[54olds]

Thanks. I'm pretty sure it's blue smoke, and it has a definite burning oil smell to it.

One of the first things I did after I bought it was to drain and change the oil and change the filter, so I know the oil is OK.

One thing of interest: I took off the valve covers to check things out. The passenger side was fairly clean, but the drivers side was almost completely caked in gunk. One drain hole was partially clogged, while the other was completely clogged. I cleaned everything out and made sure the drain holes were clear.

Here's a pic of the drivers side:



I was hoping maybe clearing the drain holes would reduce the smoking, but unfortunately seemed to have no effect

[kevinkpk]

I'd suggest pulling the plugs and looking at each cylinder too see which ones, if not all 8 are burning oil.

[PetChemMan]

One more thing to check; make sure the breather filter , which vents crankcase pressure through a pipe and filter to underneath the engine, is clean and clear. If not, it can pressurize the crankcase and make the engine burn oil . ( Actually happened to my dad's '54 Olds. He found the cause just before he embarked on an engine rebuild.) What looks like rust and sludge under that valve cover suggests a clogged breather.

[54olds]

Looking at what's on the carb, I'm not sure if I even have the right air filter for it.

Her's a picture of the air filter:



It is an oil-filled unit. Is that what should be on a 324 Rocket engine?

[kevinkpk]

Originally Posted by 54olds

Looking at what's on the carb, I'm not sure if I even have the right air filter for it.

Her's a picture of the air filter:



It is an oil-filled unit. Is that what should be on a 324 Rocket engine?

Oil bath, yep. unless you overfill it, but then again it would stop after the level went down.

[Redog]

Blue smoke usually means the sever motor wear. Might have to have it rebuilt

[Oldsguy]

From the picture of the top of the head, I would say you had some moisture in there too, it looks like rust to me but it might just be false colors in the picture reproduced on my screen. If is is red, meaning rust, you might be better served to use an engine flush in the oil to remove all that crap. The adverse side affect might be leaking oil, or more leaking than you experience now and perhaps more oil blow-by past the rings. But if that occurs, you didn't cause any worst conditions on the engine, just identified a problem you already had.