BUICK Motors in Oldsmobiles.

J-(Chicago) · 10-29-2007, 12:19 PM

Since the 3.8 was a buick motor, will an Olds small block bolt right into it's place? Buick--->Olds?

What about the opposite.... could you swap a 307 out of an 86 cutlass with a buick 350 from a 72 Skylark? Olds---->Buick?

I'm aware that the fuel pump and lines will prob. be on the wrong sides, but would there be any other issues?

Is a Buick block deeper? Resulting in a driveshaft lengthening or shortening? Or manifold/starter problems?
I have also heard that when building up and racing a buick motor it will always starve the driver's side of oil. Is this nonsense or crappy stock pumps or what?

Buick motors have finished 2nd place in the enginemasters competition for a couple years, even beat Dick Miller's build I think? They can't be all that bad right?

Olds64 · 10-29-2007, 03:54 PM

Why would you want to put a Buick motor into an Olds?

joe_padavano · 10-29-2007, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-(Chicago)

Since the 3.8 was a buick motor, will an Olds small block bolt right into it's place? Buick--->Olds?

What about the opposite.... could you swap a 307 out of an 86 cutlass with a buick 350 from a 72 Skylark? Olds---->Buick?

I'm aware that the fuel pump and lines will prob. be on the wrong sides, but would there be any other issues?

Is a Buick block deeper? Resulting in a driveshaft lengthening or shortening? Or manifold/starter problems?
I have also heard that when building up and racing a buick motor it will always starve the driver's side of oil. Is this nonsense or crappy stock pumps or what?

Buick motors have finished 2nd place in the enginemasters competition for a couple years, even beat Dick Miller's build I think? They can't be all that bad right?

First, the only thing in common between the Buick and Olds motors is the bellhousing bolt pattern. The motor and frame mounts are different. The size ("deepness"???) of the block has no impact on the driveshaft length - it's the trans length and location that matters. Assuming the car in question had both Buick and Olds motors as options, the trans will be in the same location for either motor.

captjim · 10-29-2007, 06:28 PM

A 350 Buick is an easier swap than a 350 Olds if it has the 3.8 in it. I love Olds engines, but IMO, the 350 Buick is an overlooked little engine. Light, square bore/stroke, good torquey street engine, makes good torque at low RPMs.

J-(Chicago) · 10-29-2007, 06:59 PM

The reason I ask is because i have a buick 350/350 combo from a 72 skylark. I'm sick of tripping over the motor and nobody seems to want it
So I was thinking of dumping it in one of my 85 deltas. (I have 3 of them

)
It only has 80000 on the combo, so I'm debating weather to build it up righteous, or just ditch it for some loot. It seems like it would be a nice motor. I can see that the distributor and water neck will be easier already

but I don't want any major headaches. My 70 olds 350 is kinda blown up at the moment, and this would be an easier cheaper build for the winter.

I know a lot of stupid little things about cars but when it comes to make swaps, machine work, cranks, pistons etc etc
I am a dummy.

captjim · 10-30-2007, 12:44 PM

So, are you replacing an Olds 350 with the Buick 350 or a Buick 231 with a Buick 350?

J-(Chicago) · 10-30-2007, 12:50 PM

I would like to take an olds 307 out, and put in a buick 350.
I wanted to make one of them more fuel efficient and was thinking of putting a 3.8 in, but then I said screw it and went BIGGER

I found this 72 skylark motor while looking for a 3.8

J-(Chicago) · 10-30-2007, 03:39 PM

This of course is in due time, probably over the winter. I want to have all my ducks in a row before I even eff with the motor. This month i put new tie rods in, new ball joints, new sway bar links, and re packed the rotors with new bearings. Next is some stainless brake lines I think. I want this thing to turn corners and stop nicely before I make it GO. New shocks and springs Next week, I picked them up today. I just had the driveshaft rebalanced, and re U-jointed this week as well.

Right now it has a 200Cmetric behind a 307.
The th350 has a short tail. around 4 inches if I am eyeballing it right. It looks exactly the same as the one in my 80 Olds. I have no idea if the metric trans and the th350 are the same length or what, but there should be some play involved I would think.

My main worry was the kickdown cable, but now that Joe P. clarified that almost everything is different, i am beginning to wonder if this is a bad idea.
I suppose patience and common sense will take over as usual and I'll be less worried later on down the road.
Is there a motor mount bracket kit for this like there is for dropping chevy crate motors in old ford coupes?

I have so many questions.... sigh... sorry guys.

J-(Chicago) · 10-30-2007, 04:12 PM

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, I cut the frame mounts off of the Skylark chassis.

So It looks like I'm a be welding

I'll need Double sunglasses for that.

captjim · 10-30-2007, 05:28 PM

If the car has a 307 in it, your best bet would be a 350 or 403 Olds engine, IMO. Either would be a direct bolt in, no fabbing of ANYTHING. A mild 403 making 350 ft/lbs in a small block would make it a fun car to drive.

Olds64 · 10-30-2007, 05:35 PM

I agree. An Olds 350 or 403 would be ideal for that car. If you want to use your Buick 350 then you might check out the following website for help with the transmission conversion.

http://www.tvmadeez.com/

It might help you with your TV problem.

J-(Chicago) · 10-31-2007, 02:03 PM

That is a cool website, thanks olds64.

I have 2 olds 350s but I don't want to waste any of them on the beater delta I have in mind.

1 is a 73 smogger motor with #8s

and the other is a 70 or 71 with #6 heads I believe.
My buddy might use the 73 for his 73 cutlass restoration
and my 70/71 block has been bored once before, and had a piston crack last time it was romped on. I'm not sure if it's ruined or not, and I'm scared to take it apart.....

J-(Chicago) · 10-31-2007, 02:11 PM

A guy in town wanted to sell the 350 out of his 79 cutlass to me, but when I asked him price he said $350

Pssssssh. Windowed mains and 99000 miles on it.

I got this 72 Buick motor AND tranny for $150
complete & running, carb to pan with 80000 miles on it.
Plus my buddy has a 4 bbl intake and carb he is going to give me FREE for towing his ChUbByTaHoE home with my delta.

joe_padavano · 10-31-2007, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-(Chicago)

A guy in town wanted to sell the 350 out of his 79 cutlass to me, but when I asked him price he said $350

In 1979, the only Cutlass with a factory-installed Olds 350 would have been a H/O. Either that's not an Olds 350, or it's not original. If the latter, it may not be a windowed 79 motor but an earlier one with different mileage.

J-(Chicago) · 10-31-2007, 05:22 PM

Yeah, He said it was from a car like mine that was totaled in a wreck. So I assumed it was from an 80 88 because I've never seen any delta 88s after 1980with a 350.

Thank you all for the responses. I am learning much from all of you on here. Much respect to the elder Oldsmobilers. I am trying to help out others on here as well. I've been on a lot lately since I dumped the girlfriend

J-(Chicago) · 10-31-2007, 06:11 PM

I called JEGS to see if they had a motor mount kit for 72 A buick to 80s full size olds b body..... The guy was speechless for a second, and said.......

"I get 100 calls a day about dropping crate chevy motors into ALL kinds of things, but this is only the 3rd time in my life that someone has asked me about anything close to a swap like this...."

So I said, well I am 1/3 of your market then...... and I'm expecting a nice Christmas card from you guys.

No kit obviously.

Good thing I kept those frame mounts.

My dumbass forgot the power steering pump though

I unbolted the bracket from the motor, cuz fluid would leak everywhere if I cut the lines.

I'm going to get a beer to cry in now.

Oldsguy · 10-31-2007, 06:21 PM

Don't cry in it, drink it.........

joe_padavano · 11-01-2007, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-(Chicago)

I called JEGS to see if they had a motor mount kit for 72 A buick to 80s full size olds b body..... The guy was speechless for a second...

Why do you need a kit? The Buford 350 was available in B-body cars for 1977-1980. Those mounts will work in any 77-90 B-body.

J-(Chicago) · 11-01-2007, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe_padavano

First, the only thing in common between the Buick and Olds motors is the bellhousing bolt pattern. The motor and frame mounts are different. The size ("deepness"???) of the block has no impact on the driveshaft length - it's the trans length and location that matters. Assuming the car in question had both Buick and Olds motors as options, the trans will be in the same location for either motor.

I was looking for a bracket to bolt on to my existing Oldsmobile frame mounts, that would make the Buick motor mounts bolt right up in the correct place on my frame.

Can I take the motor mounts off of the 307 and place them onto the Buick motor and have it work smoothly?

captjim · 11-01-2007, 05:39 PM

Nope. Also for future reference, Jegs and Summitt are not the places to find parts for us. Go to an Olds vendor.

J-(Chicago) · 11-01-2007, 08:51 PM

Yeah.... sigh... I was hoping to at least get a lead from someone there though. They have a s-10pickup-big block mount kit that I'm aware of, but I was wishing for a miracle hoping that they had it or someone there would have the time to tell me where to get one for my application. I suppose that wouldn't show up on their comission check though

I mean Cmon, The motor is 35 years old, racing teams have been slapping together whatever they could find to race in random cars since the very beginning. Surely there is an aftermarket company that has one of these brackets, or at the very least some cool gearhead that sells them out of his garage.

Until it is time to get to the nitty gritty, the only tools that I want to use are a phone and a pen for the check.

Oldsguy · 11-02-2007, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captjim

Nope. Also for future reference, Jegs and Summitt are not the places to find parts for us. Go to an Olds vendor.

I don't understand that, I bought a complete rebuild kit for a 455 from Summit.

captjim · 11-02-2007, 11:20 AM

Some stuff, sure. Intakes, some headers, etc. Cam choices are limited, as are exhaust (Kooks, AR, etc), pistons and other internal engine parts, underdrive pulleys, etc. Go to Jegs and ask for the .030 over new Probe pistons and an Engle 20-22 cam. Then call Rocket racing, FCR, Smitty, DM, etc. You get my point.

joe_padavano · 11-02-2007, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-(Chicago)

I was looking for a bracket to bolt on to my existing Oldsmobile frame mounts, that would make the Buick motor mounts bolt right up in the correct place on my frame.

Can I take the motor mounts off of the 307 and place them onto the Buick motor and have it work smoothly?

Go read my post #3 in this thread:

Quote:

First, the only thing in common between the Buick and Olds motors is the bellhousing bolt pattern. The motor and frame mounts are different.

Also post #18:

Quote:

The Buford 350 was available in B-body cars for 1977-1980. Those mounts will work in any 77-90 B-body.

(emphasis added)

J-(Chicago) · 11-02-2007, 09:11 PM

Oh ok, that would be a delight.
Thank you Joe.
I will call Doug Herbert and see if they have them then.

My apologies for being stupid....

88 coupe · 11-03-2007, 07:47 AM

Quote:

10-29-2007, 12:19 PM	#1 (permalink)
J-(Chicago) Seasoned beater pilot. Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,394	BUICK Motors in Oldsmobiles. Since the 3.8 was a buick motor, will an Olds small block bolt right into it's place? Buick--->Olds? What about the opposite.... could you swap a 307 out of an 86 cutlass with a buick 350 from a 72 Skylark? Olds---->Buick? I'm aware that the fuel pump and lines will prob. be on the wrong sides, but would there be any other issues? Is a Buick block deeper? Resulting in a driveshaft lengthening or shortening? Or manifold/starter problems? I have also heard that when building up and racing a buick motor it will always starve the driver's side of oil. Is this nonsense or crappy stock pumps or what? Buick motors have finished 2nd place in the enginemasters competition for a couple years, even beat Dick Miller's build I think? They can't be all that bad right? __________________ I'd rather have a numbers matching poker hand. Last edited by J-(Chicago) : 10-29-2007 at 12:34 PM.

10-29-2007, 06:59 PM	#5 (permalink)
J-(Chicago) Seasoned beater pilot. Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,394	The reason I ask is because i have a buick 350/350 combo from a 72 skylark. I'm sick of tripping over the motor and nobody seems to want it So I was thinking of dumping it in one of my 85 deltas. (I have 3 of them) It only has 80000 on the combo, so I'm debating weather to build it up righteous, or just ditch it for some loot. It seems like it would be a nice motor. I can see that the distributor and water neck will be easier already but I don't want any major headaches. My 70 olds 350 is kinda blown up at the moment, and this would be an easier cheaper build for the winter. I know a lot of stupid little things about cars but when it comes to make swaps, machine work, cranks, pistons etc etc I am a dummy. __________________ I'd rather have a numbers matching poker hand. Last edited by J-(Chicago) : 10-31-2007 at 05:05 PM.

10-30-2007, 12:50 PM	#7 (permalink)
J-(Chicago) Seasoned beater pilot. Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,394	I would like to take an olds 307 out, and put in a buick 350. I wanted to make one of them more fuel efficient and was thinking of putting a 3.8 in, but then I said screw it and went BIGGER I found this 72 skylark motor while looking for a 3.8 __________________ I'd rather have a numbers matching poker hand.

10-30-2007, 03:39 PM	#8 (permalink)
J-(Chicago) Seasoned beater pilot. Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,394	This of course is in due time, probably over the winter. I want to have all my ducks in a row before I even eff with the motor. This month i put new tie rods in, new ball joints, new sway bar links, and re packed the rotors with new bearings. Next is some stainless brake lines I think. I want this thing to turn corners and stop nicely before I make it GO. New shocks and springs Next week, I picked them up today. I just had the driveshaft rebalanced, and re U-jointed this week as well. Right now it has a 200Cmetric behind a 307. The th350 has a short tail. around 4 inches if I am eyeballing it right. It looks exactly the same as the one in my 80 Olds. I have no idea if the metric trans and the th350 are the same length or what, but there should be some play involved I would think. My main worry was the kickdown cable, but now that Joe P. clarified that almost everything is different, i am beginning to wonder if this is a bad idea. I suppose patience and common sense will take over as usual and I'll be less worried later on down the road. Is there a motor mount bracket kit for this like there is for dropping chevy crate motors in old ford coupes? I have so many questions.... sigh... sorry guys. __________________ I'd rather have a numbers matching poker hand. Last edited by J-(Chicago) : 10-30-2007 at 03:56 PM.

10-30-2007, 04:12 PM	#9 (permalink)
J-(Chicago) Seasoned beater pilot. Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,394	Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, I cut the frame mounts off of the Skylark chassis. So It looks like I'm a be welding I'll need Double sunglasses for that. __________________ I'd rather have a numbers matching poker hand.

10-29-2007, 03:54 PM	#2 (permalink)
Olds64 Landyacht Club President Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Lawton, OK Posts: 1,088	Why would you want to put a Buick motor into an Olds?

10-29-2007, 06:28 PM	#4 (permalink)
captjim Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 115	A 350 Buick is an easier swap than a 350 Olds if it has the 3.8 in it. I love Olds engines, but IMO, the 350 Buick is an overlooked little engine. Light, square bore/stroke, good torquey street engine, makes good torque at low RPMs.

10-30-2007, 12:44 PM	#6 (permalink)
captjim Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 115	So, are you replacing an Olds 350 with the Buick 350 or a Buick 231 with a Buick 350?

10-30-2007, 05:28 PM	#10 (permalink)
captjim Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 115	If the car has a 307 in it, your best bet would be a 350 or 403 Olds engine, IMO. Either would be a direct bolt in, no fabbing of ANYTHING. A mild 403 making 350 ft/lbs in a small block would make it a fun car to drive.

10-30-2007, 05:35 PM	#11 (permalink)
Olds64 Landyacht Club President Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Lawton, OK Posts: 1,088	I agree. An Olds 350 or 403 would be ideal for that car. If you want to use your Buick 350 then you might check out the following website for help with the transmission conversion. http://www.tvmadeez.com/ It might help you with your TV problem.

10-31-2007, 02:03 PM	#12 (permalink)
J-(Chicago) Seasoned beater pilot. Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,394	That is a cool website, thanks olds64. I have 2 olds 350s but I don't want to waste any of them on the beater delta I have in mind. 1 is a 73 smogger motor with #8s and the other is a 70 or 71 with #6 heads I believe. My buddy might use the 73 for his 73 cutlass restoration and my 70/71 block has been bored once before, and had a piston crack last time it was romped on. I'm not sure if it's ruined or not, and I'm scared to take it apart..... __________________ I'd rather have a numbers matching poker hand.

10-31-2007, 02:11 PM	#13 (permalink)
J-(Chicago) Seasoned beater pilot. Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,394	A guy in town wanted to sell the 350 out of his 79 cutlass to me, but when I asked him price he said $350 Pssssssh. Windowed mains and 99000 miles on it. I got this 72 Buick motor AND tranny for $150 complete & running, carb to pan with 80000 miles on it. Plus my buddy has a 4 bbl intake and carb he is going to give me FREE for towing his ChUbByTaHoE home with my delta. __________________ I'd rather have a numbers matching poker hand.

10-31-2007, 05:22 PM	#15 (permalink)
J-(Chicago) Seasoned beater pilot. Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,394	Yeah, He said it was from a car like mine that was totaled in a wreck. So I assumed it was from an 80 88 because I've never seen any delta 88s after 1980with a 350. Thank you all for the responses. I am learning much from all of you on here. Much respect to the elder Oldsmobilers. I am trying to help out others on here as well. I've been on a lot lately since I dumped the girlfriend __________________ I'd rather have a numbers matching poker hand. Last edited by J-(Chicago) : 10-31-2007 at 05:41 PM.

10-31-2007, 06:11 PM	#16 (permalink)
J-(Chicago) Seasoned beater pilot. Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,394	I called JEGS to see if they had a motor mount kit for 72 A buick to 80s full size olds b body..... The guy was speechless for a second, and said....... "I get 100 calls a day about dropping crate chevy motors into ALL kinds of things, but this is only the 3rd time in my life that someone has asked me about anything close to a swap like this...." So I said, well I am 1/3 of your market then...... and I'm expecting a nice Christmas card from you guys. No kit obviously. Good thing I kept those frame mounts. My dumbass forgot the power steering pump though I unbolted the bracket from the motor, cuz fluid would leak everywhere if I cut the lines. I'm going to get a beer to cry in now. __________________ I'd rather have a numbers matching poker hand. Last edited by J-(Chicago) : 11-01-2007 at 08:56 PM.

10-31-2007, 06:21 PM	#17 (permalink)
Oldsguy Administrator Join Date: May 2004 Location: Lees Summit MO Posts: 2,553	Don't cry in it, drink it......... __________________ Dan '46 2 door

11-01-2007, 05:39 PM	#20 (permalink)
captjim Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 115	Nope. Also for future reference, Jegs and Summitt are not the places to find parts for us. Go to an Olds vendor.

11-01-2007, 08:51 PM	#21 (permalink)
J-(Chicago) Seasoned beater pilot. Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,394	Yeah.... sigh... I was hoping to at least get a lead from someone there though. They have a s-10pickup-big block mount kit that I'm aware of, but I was wishing for a miracle hoping that they had it or someone there would have the time to tell me where to get one for my application. I suppose that wouldn't show up on their comission check though I mean Cmon, The motor is 35 years old, racing teams have been slapping together whatever they could find to race in random cars since the very beginning. Surely there is an aftermarket company that has one of these brackets, or at the very least some cool gearhead that sells them out of his garage. Until it is time to get to the nitty gritty, the only tools that I want to use are a phone and a pen for the check. __________________ I'd rather have a numbers matching poker hand. Last edited by J-(Chicago) : 11-01-2007 at 08:57 PM.

11-02-2007, 11:20 AM	#23 (permalink)
captjim Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 115	Some stuff, sure. Intakes, some headers, etc. Cam choices are limited, as are exhaust (Kooks, AR, etc), pistons and other internal engine parts, underdrive pulleys, etc. Go to Jegs and ask for the .030 over new Probe pistons and an Engle 20-22 cam. Then call Rocket racing, FCR, Smitty, DM, etc. You get my point.

11-02-2007, 09:11 PM	#25 (permalink)
J-(Chicago) Seasoned beater pilot. Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,394	Oh ok, that would be a delight. Thank you Joe. I will call Doug Herbert and see if they have them then. My apologies for being stupid.... __________________ I'd rather have a numbers matching poker hand. Last edited by J-(Chicago) : 11-02-2007 at 09:16 PM.