Much more steam lined post areas

[gearheads78]

I just realised today how disorganized this place really is. As a regular I just click on new posts and it shows me all topics that have new posts. A visitor or infrequent user is not going to be able to do that.

If everyone will take a look at the posts in the vehicle lineup section specificly. The 442 and Cutlass area are the worst. Look at how many subjects could have to do with others areas.

Someone comes here that owns a Cutlass and does a search in the "Cutlass" section does not find it and leaves but if they had done a search in "442" the answer comes right up and sometimes vise-versa

I think there would be much better use by either policing and moving threads to better catagories or steamlining some of the subjects or a little of both.

Thinking out loud here but what about this and I am open to what ever changes
A mid size section that covers all 61-72 f85, Cutlass 442 ect
A 70's section to cover all 73-77 cars
A G-body section
A full size section
A wagon section
A convertible section
A Toronado section
An all other FWD section

On the top side I would like to see an all metal work, paint, body section
and finally a performance section

For it to work if a mod sees a question about a fender for a 72 Convertible in the convertible section it needs to be moved. Only stuff in there specific to convertibles goes there. So on a so forth

[csstrux]

Sounds like a good idea to me. How much would be involved in implementing the change?

[Omicron]

Welp, the problem is not so much the framework the site provides - although it could be improved too - but that posters tend to put things whereever they land without trying to post in the appropriate forum. Once that happens it's the moderator's job to get it moved to the correct forum, but there's (1) not enough moderators to stay on top of it, (2) too many old posts to go back and move them all without a monumental effort.

HOWEVER we are working on improving the framework of the site to make it more intuitive, and the "Vehicle Lineup" section you mention is the next great project I'm working on (fixing spam had a higher priority ).

Now that that's done, I'd love to get Vehicle Lineup categorized pretty much like you mentioned above, altho a bit less specific. One idea was to do Decades (40's, 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, and 90's cars) another was by body type (A body, G body, etc) - but with any of these schemes there'll be problems and exceptions. For instance, in the "Decades" scheme there'd have to be a "Cutlass" category in 60's, 70's, 80's, and 90's - in other words, a LOT of duplication. For the body type scheme, what do you do when Olds changed body type but moved a badge from one to another.... eg, the front wheel drive Cutlasses? You see the conundrum.

I'm wide open to a schema that works and makes sense. Please throw out your suggestions here, and show me how you'd sort the existing categories.

Existing Vehicle Categories:
Cutlass
442
Hurst/Olds
Eighty-Eight
Ninety-Eight
Toronado
Alero
Aurora
Bravada
Intrigue
Silhouette
Vista Cruiser & Wagons
Others

[csstrux]

May be start simple, and build into a progressively more specific system. Thinking out loud here. lump all prewar cars into one group, as well as the late forties into a postwar, or may be a fat fender section, then fifties as a group.I think for the most part, model changes were primarily trim pacages up to this point, no? This is before my time so I may be way off base. from there a guy could break down into body designations and generations, or chassis designations?( I E a body,64/67-a body68/72-a body 73/77-g body78/81 g body81/88) I imagine this would be a huge amount of work, that I am incapable of assisting with, but in the long run could make for a more streamlined, cleaner posting system. Ps was 73/77 cutlass an a body designation, or g? If some thing like this were to be implemented, would you nesaceraly need to move prior posts to new locations, or could the prior posts be lumped into an oversection at least temporarily?

[joe_padavano]

Originally Posted by gearheads78

Thinking out loud here but what about this and I am open to what ever changes
A mid size section that covers all 61-72 f85, Cutlass 442 ect
A 70's section to cover all 73-77 cars
A G-body section
A full size section
A wagon section
A convertible section
A Toronado section
An all other FWD section

Unfortunately there is no good way to divide this. Setting aside the fact that posters will get off topic anyway, your list illustrates the problems.

A convertible section? This would cross the A-body and full size sections you suggest. It pretty much creates the same problem you're trying to solve with the current Cutlass and 442 forums. Same for the wagons - that covers early cars, A-body, B-body, and FWD wagons, most of which are mechanically identical to their sedan brethren. The mods have been talking about a different set of forums for models, but frankly, the Engine forum covers much of the same info that we find in the 442 forum, for example. Bottom line is that there will always be overlap. Simply searching all forums when using the search function solves this problem.

[gearheads78]

Originally Posted by joe_padavano

Unfortunately there is no good way to divide this. Setting aside the fact that posters will get off topic anyway, your list illustrates the problems.

A convertible section? This would cross the A-body and full size sections you suggest. It pretty much creates the same problem you're trying to solve with the current Cutlass and 442 forums. Same for the wagons - that covers early cars, A-body, B-body, and FWD wagons, most of which are mechanically identical to their sedan brethren. The mods have been talking about a different set of forums for models, but frankly, the Engine forum covers much of the same info that we find in the 442 forum, for example. Bottom line is that there will always be overlap. Simply searching all forums when using the search function solves this problem.

Thats why I said it would need to be wagon specific or convertible specific or the mods move it.

All FWD questions expect Toronado go together ect.

Like I said thinking out loud

[88 coupe]

Originally Posted by Omicron

........Existing Vehicle Categories:
Cutlass
442
Hurst/Olds
Eighty-Eight
Ninety-Eight
Toronado
Alero
Aurora
Bravada
Intrigue
Silhouette
Vista Cruiser & Wagons
Others

'64 & earlier (exc '61 & up F85/Cutlass/442/Hurst/vista).
'61 & up, F85/Cutlass/442/Hurst/vista.
'65 & up, Big Cars.
All Toronados.
All G Bodys.
All Alero, Aurora, Intrigue, Silhouette, etc.
Others.



Norm

[Bluevista]

The Vista Cruiser and wagon section is just fine, it would be lost intermingled with common drivetrain cars. There are only around thirty total threads in the wagon section and they all have to do with wagon specific topics. I think most people do realize the running gear and suspension is basically the same as any other car and go to those sections as needed. A convertible specific or any other specialized section would probably be the same with the threads focused on the unique aspects of that category.

[Oldsguy]

Norm's suggestion is pretty good. Realizing no solution truly exists, I prefer fewer categories instead of more. Have you ever been to the HAMB? that place has one general forum and that's it. If a newer Oldsmobile owner joins, and posts (usually a question) he will most certainly miss some related posts or possibly mis-place the post in the wrong forum. I do try to move the mis-placed threads and know other mods probably do too. As he becomes more used to his Oldsmobile and all Oldsmobiles in general he will become more adept at searching and posting correctly. With fewer categories this would be easier and shorten the learning curve. As was mentioned, an "all forums" directive in any search will get a person more hits.

[citcapp]

I agree that fewer is better. Oldsmobile by year group catagory is the simplest method. It could be by decade 0-29, 30-49, 50's, 60's 70's, 80's & 90's. Newbies, and leave the rest the way it is. Kiss method (keep it simple stupid)

[Omicron]

Yup, I agree Dan. Just wanting to get what we've got better grouped, like the rest of the forum now is. Just makes it easier to find stuff, so long as we don't over do it!

[Omicron]

Ok, did a fair bit of research and came up with the following categories and forums under them. Please let me know what you think!

--

Vintage Oldsmobiles:

• Curved Dash and Limited Touring (1901-1913)
• Models 40, 53, and 66
• Series 60, 70, and 90
• Dynamic and Super 88

1960s exclusive models:

• F-85 (1961-1963)
• Starfire (1961-1966)
• Jetstar 88 (1964-1966)
• Delmont 88 (1967-1968)

Large Oldsmobiles:

• Olds 88 (1949-1999)
• Olds 98 (1941-1996)
• Olds Toronado (1966-1992)

Cutlass, 442, and Hurst/Olds:

• Olds 442 and Hurst/Olds (All years)
• Cutlass and Cutlass Supreme (1964-1999)
• Cutlass Calais and Ciera (1982-1996)

Wagons, Vans, and SUV Oldsmobiles:

• Custom Cruiser (1971-1992)
• Vista Cruiser (1964-1977)
• Silhouette Minivan (1990-2004)
• Bravada (1991-2004)

Final Years Oldsmobiles:

• Achieva (1992-1998)
• Alero (1999-2004)
• Aurora (1995-2003)
• Intrigue (1998-2002)

Other Oldsmobiles:

• Aerotech(1987-1992)
• Firenza (1982-1988)
• Starfire (1975-1980)

[gearheads78]

I think you are on the right track. Personally I would move the Silhouette to the FWD cars. Thats all it really is a FWD car with a big body on top.

[citcapp]

Looks fine to me, and is easy to understand

[Omicron]

Originally Posted by gearheads78

I think you are on the right track. Personally I would move the Silhouette to the FWD cars. Thats all it really is a FWD car with a big body on top.

Yeah but... if we go down that path, a Vista Cruiser is a Cutlass with a big body and a window'd roof, and so on. "If it walks like a duck...." or in this case, looks like a minivan...

[joe_padavano]

Originally Posted by Omicron

Ok, did a fair bit of research and came up with the following categories and forums under them. Please let me know what you think!

--

Vintage Oldsmobiles:

• Curved Dash and Limited Touring (1901-1913)
• Models 40, 53, and 66
• Series 60, 70, and 90
• Dynamic and Super 88

1960s exclusive models:

• F-85 (1961-1963)
• Starfire (1961-1966)
• Jetstar 88 (1964-1966)
• Delmont 88 (1967-1968)

Large Oldsmobiles:

• Olds 88 (1949-1999)
• Olds 98 (1941-1996)
• Olds Toronado (1966-1992)

Cutlass, 442, and Hurst/Olds:

• Olds 442 and Hurst/Olds (All years)
• Cutlass and Cutlass Supreme (1964-1999)
• Cutlass Calais and Ciera (1982-1996)

Wagons, Vans, and SUV Oldsmobiles:

• Custom Cruiser (1971-1992)
• Vista Cruiser (1964-1977)
• Silhouette Minivan (1990-2004)
• Bravada (1991-2004)

Final Years Oldsmobiles:

• Achieva (1992-1998)
• Alero (1999-2004)
• Aurora (1995-2003)
• Intrigue (1998-2002)

Other Oldsmobiles:

• Aerotech(1987-1992)
• Firenza (1982-1988)
• Starfire (1975-1980)

It's an admirable list, but I question the value of having that many categories. We rarely get a post on Ciera and Calais FWD cars, much less the Firenza, etc. I suspect that this will result in a lot of categories that rarely get used. Look at 442.com - they have about half a dozen categories, but some only get a handful of posts in a year. I'd be inclined to group common platforms - RWD, FWD, etc.

Was the intent that the categories above be the only ones? There are Cutlass Cruiser wagons (RWD and FWD), Firenza wagons, and don't forget the ambulance and hearse conversions.

I'm curious as to why the Aerotech race car rates mention with production cars like the H-body Starfire? Should we have a category for specials and race cars (Hurst Hairy Olds, CroSal Can-Am cars, etc.)?

[Omicron]

Originally Posted by joe_padavano

It's an admirable list, but I question the value of having that many categories. We rarely get a post on Ciera and Calais FWD cars, much less the Firenza, etc. I suspect that this will result in a lot of categories that rarely get used. Look at 442.com - they have about half a dozen categories, but some only get a handful of posts in a year. I'd be inclined to group common platforms - RWD, FWD, etc.

Was the intent that the categories above be the only ones? There are Cutlass Cruiser wagons (RWD and FWD), Firenza wagons, and don't forget the ambulance and hearse conversions.

I'm curious as to why the Aerotech race car rates mention with production cars like the H-body Starfire? Should we have a category for specials and race cars (Hurst Hairy Olds, CroSal Can-Am cars, etc.)?

Part of it is that we're growing so quickly we want to get under this now. Second part is we're getting call for some of the heretofor unneeded categories. But I hear ya, lets pare this down some more. If we get it too pared down, before (1) it makes it hard to find where stuff is posted, and (2) new users coming in looking for a category for their car, and not finding it, may never be back.

So, lets keep narrowing this down till we get as close to "right" as possible. Here's pass 2:

Vintage Oldsmobiles:

• Curved Dash and Limited Touring (1901-1913)
• Models 40, 53, 66; Series 60, 70, 90

Cutlass, 442, and Hurst/Olds:

• Olds 442 and Hurst/Olds (All years)
• All Cutlass (Includes Supreme, Calais, and Ciera)

Large Oldsmobiles:

• Olds 88 (Delta, Dynamic, Delmont, Super, and Jetstar)
• Olds 98 (1941-1996)
• Olds Toronado (1966-1992)

Wagons, Vans, and SUV Oldsmobiles:

• Wagons: Custom Cruiser and Vista Cruiser (All years)
• Silhouette Minivan and Bravada SUV

Final Years Oldsmobiles:

• Achieva and Alero
• Aurora and Intrigue

Other Oldsmobiles:

• F-85 (1961-1963)
• Firenza (1982-1988)
• Starfire (1961-66 and 1975-80)

[Oldsguy]

Ok. How are we going to re-sort the present posts from existing forums to these new ones? It seems like an enormous task if it takes an actual look at every thread. And what about the present categories that are not car model related? Do they stay as they are? I am not trying to be critical of all the effort and work you have put into this Paul, I really am glad for it. Just trying to sort these ideas out.

[Omicron]

Much of this is just moving categorizing forums into categories. The rest can be done with search+bulk move of posts.

And no worries, I take none of this as criticism, just a dialog about how to do it! If I didn't want a discussion, I would have just moved everything.

[gearheads78]

Looking good.

One other thing every car site seems to have is a separate paint/body section. Those sections seem to get more traffic than other parts of the sites.

[citcapp]

I like what has been done so far.