coppercutlass

Alright so this spring im finallly getting around to doing my front suspension. Im looking on summit racing for parts. Im just curious whats a good spring rate for an iron headed small block with fiber glass fenders and hood. It's still street driven. summit has " cargo coils" for the front that are 336 in.lbs at a nice price just dont know if this is a good idea. Im also going with 90/10's up front. adding all new ball joints and steering components. Im also ditching the air bags and 442 springs and adding relocation brackets and vert springs. Main question being the spring rate lol.

64Rocket

Look at these " Eibach" springs #3856-140

Also look at this place for the tubular arms.

http://www.kmjent.com/cart/control-arms/

Gene

coppercutlass

the rear control arms have been boxes with 1/4 inch steel , the fronts im not gonna worry about i dont have alot of money. for 500 i get to do all new ball joints tie rods, bushings springs and shocks and something for the rear.

oldcutlass

If your using moog springs and stock frontend parts, check rockauto for pricing also. The station wagon springs are going to lift the rear quite a bit, so I would really consider what you are going to do in the front carefully.

coppercutlass

I have already ran vert springs and cargo coils in the rear in the past. I actually found the part number for the inline siz springs for a chevelle.

yankees

Here's the route I went with my 72, but the parts haven't been installed. My car is driven on the street and will see track time in the sportsman and no box classes this season. Driven to the track also, but not if I can help it.

1. Calvert 90/10 shocks #CF 43093
2. Moroso Springs #47160 242 Lbs. This is still probably too stiff for my liking, but I'll give it a try.
3. Factory UCA/LCA powder coated with poly bushings and with all of serrations ground off. They move easily up and down, but not quite like my old Del Alum bushings that were in my 69 camaro.
4. New factory front idler, drag link, tie rods with aftermarket aluminum adjusters.
5. Moroso rear springs (have already been installed and drive just fine).

Going in the rear will be Comp shocks,3.90 gear, Eaton diff and 3000 stall for the T-350.

Have everything, but just need time to install.

coppercutlass

That's too rich for the budget lol.I have are bags for the rear in the current springs. I'm also running a 3000 stall but I'm going to have it re flashed to around 2700 .

70Wcars

Just curious as to why you are going with 90/10 Shocks? The Competition Engineering 3-way adjustable are not that expensive, and I found I had to click down to the lower setting. The 90/10 setting kept the front of my car up too long. Those shocks are on the car in my Sig Picture.

Sounds like you have a good plan for a cool Spring project. Keep us posted and just my opinion on the Comp. Eng. Shocks.

Danny

coppercutlass

i did consider those 3 way shocks i actually had a set might still be up in the rafters but i think they are there for a reason possibly for a diffrent car. For me the more adjustability the more i mess with stuff. My friend is running the same 90/10's on his camino and he has been happy. Im finally hoping i dip into tht 12's this year with my iron headed small block. My main objective is to make the car safer i have not changed anything suspension wise on the the since i bought it 7 years ago. Im also just trying to get a little bit more performance with just little tweaks nothing to drastic but i will consider the 3 way shocks.

krooser

90/10's are not suited for a daily driver..IMHO.

coppercutlass

90/10's arent so bad . I dorve my buddies el camino with trick springs and 90/10's up front. I still have not touched my suspension since i opted top install the engine first since our spring dragged out and im trying to put some passes on this mtor before it gets warmer out.

krooser

Not good for any twisty roads or sudden lane changes... ok for the drags though.

coppercutlass

I only drive like an idiot on isolated roads. Other than that i drive like an old lady. I built my car to drag race and i know what its good at. It still hass 4 wheel drum brakes so i have to pay attention to traffic quick stops will lock them up easy.

Porter858

If you're looking for low budget, Moog still makes a wide variety of coils and they're usually $60-$100 from Summit. I used to go through my Moog catalog to get the end types, wire dia, and inner/outer dia of the spring, length and installed height. Then look at their spec chart and find a spring with the length and rate you want that'll also fit. It's a pain and takes awhile to go through the catalog, but it's a cheap way to go.

I heard its hard to find Moog spring specs online, so if you need them, let me know and I'll scan all the applicable pages from my old catalog and make a post. It's from 1996, but most of the part numbers are still the same.

Bernhard

I put 6cly springs in a friends 69 cutlass s and cut them till we were happy with the ride height. They were in and out a few times before we were happy. Take your time you do not want to cut to much off because they can settle over a few weeks time as we found out. I think I only cut a half coil. The 6 cyl coils looked a lot like Moroso trick springs. They were much longer than the stock spring and rely needed to be compressed just like the Moroso springs. I would not run 90/10 shocks on the street or strip. I think that it is out dated tech left over from the 80's. The new anti roll bars look very good and I plan on using one on my car. Moog is the way to go with ball joints tie rod ends idler arms you don't want to go cheep here.
Good luck with your build. Its nice to see you are doing most of the work.

oldcutlass

This chart? It can be sorted by any column. Moog springs can be had through most auto parts stores, and online.

http://www.moog-suspension-parts.com...il_Springs.asp

Porter858

Thanks for posting that! Bookmarked for the next time someone asks me.

oldcutlass

Your welcome, I use that chart extensively.

coppercutlass

Small update i guess. My friend stopped by and dropped off some parts i could have. In the box and near new where lake wood 90/10's and 50/50's freebies so i cant complain . Another friend of mine has some trick springs he used to run on his 442 he is letting me have. Now if i could just save enough coin i'll order the rest i'll be in buisness. been enjoying the car too much along with the good weather.

yankees

Copper use a lightweight front spring with the 90/10s. Got my calvert 90/10 (you have to grind/massage the shock mount area) and moroso 242Lb springs in uncut. Car rides perfect on the street. Don't listen to the nay sayers about drag suspensions on the street. My ride hgt is fine and the front is nice and loose. It doesn't nose dive when braking either. I did exactly what was in my February post. Brakes and rear gear are next.

z11375ss

Just bought these. Great price!! Thanks!

442rocketdave

Nick those A arms are complete with ball joints and urethane bushings and the urethane stop bumpers, that is both upper and lower, lighter, stronger and only 289.00 complete and delivered free!!! you still have money to buy the springs and shocks and tie rods. I would do it, in fact I am, also the competition enginering shocks work great I have several friends with them and you can adjust them for the street or strip and they are a great price at 41.50 each. Also I ran 69 Gto springs on the front of my car and worked super. I have the part# somewhere if you want it. Just something to think about, Dave

Seff

I'm suspicious of control arms that claim to perform as well as UMI or Hotchkiss, but are a quarter of the price. Seems unrealistic.

coppercutlass

Im not doing control arms just ball joints. If anyone has old control arms i"ll buy em id rather do bushings and all that on the bench and have them ready to go then take em off then powdercoat them and wait.

z11375ss

Got them in the mail and they are as stout as anything I've ever seen. Look like a fine product. Perhaps Hotchkis etal are charging too much. I've bought their sway bars and they are pricey for a tubular piece of metal. If I end up in the ditch, I'll let you know. They aren't going on soon. Probably after the season. I'm tired of the car being down. I want to go fast!

Seff

Fair enough. I've seen pictures of the ball joints that came on those arms, they were scary.

442rocketdave

Z11375SS, If you could, would you post a picture of the ball joints from the a frames, I want to buy a set for my 69 I told you about and if they are ok I am going for it!! I hope to start my thread on the restoration of my 69 in the next few days as soon as I learn how to shrink the pictures down to fit this forum. Also did you do anything new to your 68??

z11375ss

Yeah, I'll post some up.
The car has a fresh 455 and a Tremec TKO 600 now. I also lowered it with Hothckis lowering springs. It looks badass. Made the reverse lights work, went with a much bigger radiator and twin electric fans for cooling the beastie. Cleaned up the wiring on the fenderwells, etc. New tires because the old ones were like 13 years old even though they looked fine. I felt one may come apart at speed and we can't have that now can we? Other than all that stuff, I haven't done anything to it! I wanted to go on Power Tour but the car is not ready and won't have enough breakin for my comfort zone to take it on a long trip. I'll get those pics up soon.

z11375ss

Here's some pics. Fire away!

Dave Siltman

I have 2 cars; the avatar pic uses OLD 6 cyl and 90/10s up front and stock springs with 50/50 in the rear with Air-Lift bags in the rear. To see how they work Google "David Siltman Nostalgia". That car does see some street time (very limited) and drives like a race car, but I like it. My front suspension is set up old school and watch the video---that was launching at 4500 and "granny-shifting" at 5000. My other car s a frame-off '72 442 that is a 350, 4-speed, with 3:91s---that car would be done if I would QUIT changing stuff. I bought a set of the tubulars like shown above, and for the money I doubt you can beat them. I haven't had a chance to take apart the BRAND-NEW front end to install them because I'm down with major back surgery. I like what I see in the tubulars (will match the rear suspension somewhat---Edelbrock stuff), but like I said, they have yet to be installed. So, I am curious to feedback after Z11375SS installs his.

coppercutlass

I personally like doing things a bit old school. Currently i have 1969 442 springs in the back with some really old air springs called air ***** with the lowers boxed with solid 1/4 in. flat stock steel . The front suspension consist of bushings circa 1972 with what probably is the original springs with new as of 2 years ago gabriel shocks . It also has manual steering. It already has that race car feel to it while driving lol. Im going to run the front trick springs my friend ran on his 442 if they will work for me. he ran them in a big block but his car sat lower so im guessing with a small block it might sit a little higher. I also do have a set of vert springs and cargo coils i was thinking of putting new air bags on the vert springs but the 442 coils are probably better even though they are from 1969 they are thick and beefy on the diameter of the coil. Btw I love that video.

z11375ss

Agreed. The video is kickass. It seems to lift the left front like it's nothing. What does that thing weigh? It is sprung right and has that awesome 60s racecar stance. Really nice car Dave.

Dave Siltman

The car weighs (according to Oldsmobile, I never weighed it) a tad over 3400 w/o driver. The front end IMO is perfect and carries both front wheels the same. If the video looks like the left is higher, it is not. I had guys watching me leave and it came out "square" every time. Old school worked back then, and it works now. I don't have a rev-limiter on that car and it was a "street tune" so that is why I was running "easy".

442rocketdave

I had seen that video on Joe Mondello's old site and I never knew who it was!! Dave that was awesome!!

coppercutlass

Dave im real curious where there any specs to be followed by the guys who built the engines to run in their classes. I have always wanted to build a stocker engine like they used to run but it seems any guys who ran stocker classes is very secretive kinda lile pro stock these days.

oldsmoboogie

Hey copper I have a pair of moroso trick front springs with half a coil cut off that I had on my car with only about 3000 miles on them you can have if you want to pay shipping. I am by Moline so I don't think it would be too much.

coppercutlass

SweEEEEEEt . Did you run them on bbo or sbo ? I might be better off driving since i got a little econo box saturn and it's only about a 2 hr. drive.

oldsmoboogie

big block

coppercutlass

cool I will let you know . I am intrested. Again thanks.

Dave Siltman

I never bought anything from Mondello, so they must have downloaded the video from YouTube. As for the engine specs, look up what NHRA will allow for specific Stock classes. I'm not hiding anything, but your question is kinda vague. The limits for Stock are different now from what was allowable in 1969. If you plan to build a LEGAL stock engine, do some homework first and start saving your lunch money. I don't want to hijack this thread explaining Stock NHRA specs., but I'm always eager to help a fellow Olds owner. A good, competitive Stock engine will run in the ( a range NOT an exact amount) teens to $20,000.00. A GREAT, low qualifier, record setter, will considerably more---but the engine is just part of the equation. Transmission, rear end, and suspension are just as critical in setting records, #1 qualifier or winning events---and that's just the CAR. You need a seasoned, experienced driver and the right weather and track conditions.
I run dated '69 parts except the '70 W-31 aluminum intake (sbo) and a '69 Muncie M21, and a '69 rear with 4:33s (Chevy style 12bolt, not original to the car---I have the original "O-type", but Canadian built cars would've had the Chevy style, so technically it is NHRA legal). I built it to be as run in 1969, it would NOT AT ALL be competitive with current NHRA stockers. My "real" racing days are behind me, and I play around with buddies doing nostalgia stuff and show the car a little.