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Old May 2nd, 2007, 06:14 PM   #1 (permalink)
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How rare?? is my 1963 Oldsmobile Starfire

Hi just got my 1963 Oldsmobile Starfire, alot of options to list, ok, it has the ultra high compression 394/345h.p engine, a/c,pb,ps,power windows, power rear deck antenna,power bucket seats, in the console tach probably super ultra rare, 3 speed auto trans, um and the paint is the a light blue i think its original its the H-H which is PPG 12713 Cirrus Blue and the interior looks like that color too.I think it has 3:42 gears, on the emergency brake it has a red indicator light.By the way this is for sale so let me know if your interested but i want to know if this is a very rare car thanks
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Old November 28th, 2007, 01:45 PM   #2 (permalink)
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rare? I dunno...

This is an excerpt from AACA's forum "Rare cars... What is rare?"


I get a kick out of this... Some people say "My Camaro is rare because only 742 were this color orange" (and I wonder, how many Camaros were made?)

or

"Only 12,212 Dynamic 88 Convertible were made. That amounts to all of 2.7% of Olds' total 1962 output." I ask myself, “if 2.7% of the 88's were convertibles and there were that many, then a total production of 88's must be huge?!?!” I think these car owners can find parts to keep it running!

Don't get me wrong, these are truly wonderful cars, and great people too. I love what they are doing with the cars and should keep up the great work. I just want to know how is rare defined???

How about a 1915 Oldsmobile Model 42? Only 1,319 Model 42s were ever produced of a total vehicle production of 7,696 for Oldsmobile that year. After 2 world wars, time, rust / rot / neglect... not many survive.

To the best of my knowledge, I believe AACA has 7 known Oldsmobile model 42s registered with the organization. In my research, I know of 10 total left.... Assuming that there are a couple unknown model 42s left in a barn somewhere... that leaves us with a grand total of 12 or so?? It's difficult to find parts to restore them, or books to even describe how to drive them.

So what makes a car rare? or how would you define a rare car??? Please share your views, because I would like to know what you think!


(and from a later post in the same thread, when a guy mentions options as was mentioned here)

I still believe that if there were a bunch made... color or options shouldn't count. the option may be rare, but the vehicle is not.

And just because you have a hard time finding parts for the vehicle doesn't make it rare... many times, if people just pull their head out of their tailpipe, they can find one. It may be expensive - but it's out there.

If you need to have parts machined, panels hand made, and everything custom fabricated, parts cast, or special ordered... then it might be rare.

That's what I think...

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a link to the thread can be found at:
http://forums.aaca.org/ubbthreads.ph...443931/fpart/1

or search AACA's forum for "Rare cars... What is rare?"

What is your take on this????




Joe Ferrero
Geneseo, NY

(3) 1915 Oldsmobiles
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Old November 28th, 2007, 03:15 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I concur that the '63 Starfire is not a particularly rare car- Olds built 21148 Starfire coupes in '63. All of them had 3.42 gears, the Starfire engine, & a console tach as standard equipment. Given that the Starfire was marketed as a personal luxury car, most of them were very well-optioned with comfort & power accessories. If anything, it would be more unusual (rare?) to find one with few such options.

Remember that rarity & collectibility do not necessarily go hand-in-hand. You could have the nicest Rambler Sedan Delivery in the world & still find yourself waiting for the phone to ring when you try to sell it for what YOU may think it's worth. On the flip side, Chevy built something like 40000 Bel Air convertibles in '57, & folks today pay insane money for those cars.

While not a particularly rare car, the '63 Starfire is quite collectible, & fine examples are becoming pricey. Condition is everything with these cars, as restoration costs will quickly exceed the value of the finished car- especially for a coupe as opposed to a convertible. Very few reproduction parts are available, & the premium materials used on the interiors are brutally expensive to replace. If your Starfire is rough, it's likely collectible only for parts! Please post a few pics when you get a chance.
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Old November 28th, 2007, 03:24 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Well...
It seems I am going to have to shake things up a little bit here.
Big money rare is much different than "regular" rare.

There were a total of 299,506 2 door Delta 88s made from 1980-1985 Which seems like an insane amount.

Now take that 300,000 deltas and divide it by the number of the world population.

Only so many people have the privilage (or curse) of driving one.
The rest of the world just has to watch and wonder what it is like
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Old December 27th, 2007, 12:57 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 1964OldsmobileF-85V84Door View Post
alot of options to list, ok, it has the ultra high compression 394/345h.p engine, a/c,pb,ps,power windows, power rear deck antenna,power bucket seats, in the console tach probably super ultra rare, 3 speed auto trans, um and the paint is the a light blue i think its original its the H-H which is PPG 12713 Cirrus Blue and the interior looks like that color too.I think it has 3:42 gears, on the emergency brake it has a red indicator light.


This made me laugh...half of the 'options' you list were STANDARD on the Starfire. high compression engine pb, ps, bucket seats and your ultra rare console are standard items. Sorry, but this car is far from rare.
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Old December 28th, 2007, 05:22 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 1964OldsmobileF-85V84Door View Post
Hi just got my 1963 Oldsmobile Starfire, alot of options to list, ok, it has the ultra high compression 394/345h.p engine, a/c,pb,ps,power windows, power rear deck antenna,power bucket seats, in the console tach probably super ultra rare, 3 speed auto trans, um and the paint is the a light blue i think its original its the H-H which is PPG 12713 Cirrus Blue and the interior looks like that color too.I think it has 3:42 gears, on the emergency brake it has a red indicator light.By the way this is for sale so let me know if your interested but i want to know if this is a very rare car thanks
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Old December 28th, 2007, 10:48 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Rare does not always mean more money. Desireability does. I have a 1961 Olds Dynamic 88 2 dr sedan. Rare-yes but not much desire out there.
Pat
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Old September 30th, 2008, 07:04 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Are you In Maine?????
My Dadjust sold his light blue( solid light blue). He sold without telling my brother and I, AND HE KNOWS I VERY PISSED OFF. I would sell my sivler 68 Toronado(I've had since 1987) to get the Strafire back.
By the way that automatic tranny is a FOUR speed NOT a three speed(even though the console just list 3 speeds). Please see link.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3032621
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Old September 30th, 2008, 07:05 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Oh -and this Starfire DID nOT have power seats.
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Old September 30th, 2008, 07:08 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Only 4401 TArfire ragtops for 1963.
I had a #6 black one with maroon guts. I sold it to a guy inNH . last I knew that car is in Long Island, NY
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Old September 12th, 2009, 10:03 AM   #11 (permalink)
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How desirable are 65 Jetstar 1's with the 3 speed auto?
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Old September 12th, 2009, 10:42 AM   #12 (permalink)
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How desirable are 65 Jetstar 1's with the 3 speed auto?
Please realize that you are resurrecting a thread that was started in May 2007.
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Old September 12th, 2009, 11:29 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Rare vs. demand. Always an interesting subject whenever somebody wants something unique, or to make a lot of money. I bought my '66 Starfire '77 (since sold) and have yet to see another '66 Starfire locally. Is this rare? Yes. Is it a desirable/high $ car? I don't believe it was even though it was the last year for this model until the mid '70's.

My '70 W-30 is 1 of 1032 4 spd 's produced. Is it rare? Yes. I have seen many W-30's over the years that pop up from who knows where at the local cruises. No authentication though. Are these cars desirable? I would have to say yes.

Narrowing my W down to a 4spd car makes it much rarer and more desirable. I knew a guy who had a 77(?) Vette. He was able to narrow his car down to just a handful that were yellow, t-top, leather blah, blah, blah. It came down to some inane combo of options that made his car seem rare. If you are able to pigeon hole a car down to where it was the only one that came with glow in the dark hubcaps and chrome muffler bearings, you can make any car seem "rare". But as was mentioned in the previous posts. Is it desirable though?
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Old September 12th, 2009, 05:13 PM   #14 (permalink)
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..... and chrome muffler bearings.........

Do not to forget to check this important maintenance item on a regular basis.
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Old September 12th, 2009, 08:22 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Ya know... I would not think of a car to be rare just because you don't see them. I would (however) consider it to be unique. and with some others listed here, I would say they have unique options - but they are also not RARE.

thoughts?


~J



Quote:
Originally Posted by 344870M View Post
Rare vs. demand. Always an interesting subject whenever somebody wants something unique, or to make a lot of money. I bought my '66 Starfire '77 (since sold) and have yet to see another '66 Starfire locally. Is this rare? Yes. Is it a desirable/high $ car? I don't believe it was even though it was the last year for this model until the mid '70's.

My '70 W-30 is 1 of 1032 4 spd 's produced. Is it rare? Yes. I have seen many W-30's over the years that pop up from who knows where at the local cruises. No authentication though. Are these cars desirable? I would have to say yes.

Narrowing my W down to a 4spd car makes it much rarer and more desirable. I knew a guy who had a 77(?) Vette. He was able to narrow his car down to just a handful that were yellow, t-top, leather blah, blah, blah. It came down to some inane combo of options that made his car seem rare. If you are able to pigeon hole a car down to where it was the only one that came with glow in the dark hubcaps and chrome muffler bearings, you can make any car seem "rare". But as was mentioned in the previous posts. Is it desirable though?
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3 - 1915 Oldsmobile - Model 42
1947 Oldsmobile - Model 76
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Tree House Car and other fun stuff
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Old September 12th, 2009, 08:32 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Do not to forget to check this important maintenance item on a regular basis.

The chrome ones don't go bad. duh!
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Old September 13th, 2009, 11:50 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by oldsmobile1915 View Post
just want to know how is rare defined???
So what makes a car rare? or how would you define a rare car??? Please share your views, because I would like to know what you think!

I still believe that if there were a bunch made... color or options shouldn't count. the option may be rare, but the vehicle is not.

If you need to have parts machined, panels hand made, and everything custom fabricated, parts cast, or special ordered... then it might be rare.

What is your take on this????
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsmobile1915 View Post
Ya know... I would not think of a car to be rare just because you don't see them. I would (however) consider it to be unique. and with some others listed here, I would say they have unique options - but they are also not RARE.
thoughts?~J
Joe, since you asked in '07 and again now, I'll chip in.
You bring up some good points.
Once again we get caught up in terminology that ultimately depend on the context in which it is used.
Rare simply means it is uncommon. Can be uncommon for a number of reasons. Few made, few left, uncommon (yes, rare) color, options, etc.
I think "rare" is just like a lot of other nebulous terms, and needs to be defined *when used* to mean anything.
Yes the term is tired, but if one would replace the word "rare" with "uncommon" (which is what it means), the terms begs to be defined: "How is it uncommon?"
Sure, if you start with a model, further defined by color, options, etc., one can drill down to the point of being "rare", but if that is what is said, so what? The car is what it is. The word rare doesn't change that.

Now rare vs. desirable. Maybe *some* people out there think that rare = desirable, but I don't see where it is not generally understood that rare does *not* mean desirable. But "undesirability" certainly does not mean that it is wrong to use the term rare. It is up to the reader as to whether or not it is desirable.

So there is nothing wrong with using the term "rare" (if it is uncommon). May be poor, tired, and undefined, and a poor choice of words,but it doesn't make it wrong.

I think the word "rare" should be thrown on pile with "original, numbers matching" and other terms that mean nothing by themselves.
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Old September 13th, 2009, 07:03 PM   #18 (permalink)
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...Rare simply means it is uncommon.
I agree that terms definitly begs to be defined.

Rare = uncommon; singular; infrequent; unusual

One should not define the car as "rare" based on a "rare" option, but the car should be defined as "unique".

Unique = exceptional; exclusive; distinctive; single




Quote:
Originally Posted by wmachine View Post
...Sure, if you start with a model, further defined by color, options, etc., one can drill down to the point of being "rare", but if that is what is said, so what?
To define a vehicle by color, options, etc. would be to define its uniqueness. but If I am able to go to a shelf and pull of a fender, a door, a distributor cap and rotor, then I would say that "The Car" is not rare... original production numbers I believe would help to define this.



Quote:
Originally Posted by wmachine View Post
...Now rare vs. desirable. Maybe *some* people out there think that rare = desirable, but I don't see where it is not generally understood that rare does *not* mean desirable.
This I am in full agreement. I have a 1946 Triumph 1800 Saloon Renoun. Production numbers of this vehicle were low. There are approximatly 12 still operating in England, and the one I have (though rough) is the only known survivor of approximatly 20 that came here to the United States. I posted it for sale for $2500 (a while back) with no inquires... so it proves your point.




So the term "rare"
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmachine View Post
... May be poor, tired, and undefined, and a poor choice of words...(that) should be thrown on pile with "original, numbers matching" and other terms
I believe that it would be helpful to standardize terminology amongst hobbyist. It will assist when we talk about "apples" we mean "apples" and not "cherries"... and define the uniqueness by "Golden Delicious" and "Macintosh" and not just "red or green". If it is not defined, when someone asks you "what kind of car is that?" you might as well say "a white two door" instead of a year, make, and model.
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Old September 14th, 2009, 10:44 AM   #19 (permalink)
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lol @ joe sorry I didn't realize how old this thread was
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Old September 14th, 2009, 02:15 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsmobile1915 View Post

Rare = uncommon; singular; infrequent; unusual

Unique = exceptional; exclusive; distinctive; single

I believe that it would be helpful to standardize terminology amongst hobbyist.
To me there is a clear distinction that rare still represents one of a number and unique is strictly one of a kind.

I have often suggested standardization for a number of differently used (and and abused) terms.
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Old October 2nd, 2009, 09:05 AM   #21 (permalink)
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re; 63 olds starfire in cirrus blue

I am interested in learning more about your car, if it is still for sale. You can call me at 412/287-5142. I would also like to see some pictures.
Thanks
Wayne

You can aso reach me via email at tiggerduke@comcast.net
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Old October 2nd, 2009, 09:11 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Old October 2nd, 2009, 10:31 AM   #23 (permalink)
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something to consider-with the possible exception of limited edition or hand built cars-maybe something is rare because no one wanted it when it was new,either?
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Old October 2nd, 2009, 10:31 AM
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