two Ninety Eight questions....

[Dutch]

1) What is the original wheel size? These hubcaps appear to be 14" but that seems nuts for a barge like this car.... It currently has non-original 15" wheels on it.

2) Is it ok to hang the 394 from the integral bell housing on a standard engine stand or do I need to do something different?

Oh... One more question... do you ever stop smiling once you own something this cool??

[joe_padavano]

Originally Posted by Dutch

1) What is the original wheel size? These hubcaps appear to be 14" but that seems nuts for a barge like this car.... It currently has non-original 15" wheels on it.

2) Is it ok to hang the 394 from the integral bell housing on a standard engine stand or do I need to do something different?

Oh... One more question... do you ever stop smiling once you own something this cool??

14" wheels were very common in the 1960s. Most tires were 78-series, so they were taller in diameter than today's low-profile 17" or 18" tires. Keep in mind that the outside diameter of the tire is not related to the wheel diameter, and a taller tire section will provide a smoother ride.

[Texascarnut]

Originally Posted by Dutch

1) What is the original wheel size? These hubcaps appear to be 14" but that seems nuts for a barge like this car.... It currently has non-original 15" wheels on it.

2) Is it ok to hang the 394 from the integral bell housing on a standard engine stand or do I need to do something different?

Oh... One more question... do you ever stop smiling once you own something this cool??

14" wheels were pretty much standard from 1957 into the mid 1960's for most cars other than Cadillac and Lincolns. Not sure about Chrysler Imperials. The wheel size has virtually nothing to do with the load rating of the tires that were mounted on the wheels. In actuality there is less than 1" difference in the tire height between the two wheel sizes.

I'd remove the bell housing and flywheel before putting that engine on a stand if there is any reason to believe it may be necessary to remove the crankshaft from the block. It is impossible to get the flywheel out of the bell housing once the engine is on the stand with the bell housing in place though it is possible to remove it from the crankshaft. It just makes things easier to remove the bell housing and flywheel before mounting on a stand.

[Olds64]

I had a 64 394 on a normal engine stand for a few months and it didn't have any problems.

[rocketraider]

14x6, 5x5 bolt pattern from 1957-1970. 1964 Ninety Eights rode on 9.00-14 rolling stock, as did Starfires with factory air conditioning. Starfires without air used 8.50-14 and Dynamic/Super 88s used 8.25-14. Bias ply of course. The alphanumeric profile didn't show up till 1968 or so.

Since the only way you can get those big 14" tires now is to go repop, you're very limited to what you can use on the car if you keep the 14" wheels. A 225/75R14 or 235/75R14 were just about a perfect fit, but I don't think ANY tire company is making those sizes now. A 215/75R14 is too small for a car that size.

If you keep the 15" wheels, even a 215 or 225/75R15 whitewall is getting harder to find than it should be, and none of the factory 1964 wheelcovers work with them. The Rocket emblem changed in 1965, so later 15" wheelcovers look out of place too.

But a nice aftermarket wheel could add to the elegance of a Ninety Eight, long as it's not blingy.

[Nilsson]

This is in response to the smile on your face part. I hope to experience that feeling if I snag the 1963 98 I have been looking at come this weekend.

The Animal needs a stable mate.

[Texascarnut]

Originally Posted by rocketraider

14x6, 5x5 bolt pattern from 1957-1970. 1964 Ninety Eights rode on 9.00-14 rolling stock, as did Starfires with factory air conditioning. Starfires without air used 8.50-14 and Dynamic/Super 88s used 8.25-14. Bias ply of course. The alphanumeric profile didn't show up till 1968 or so.

Since the only way you can get those big 14" tires now is to go repop, you're very limited to what you can use on the car if you keep the 14" wheels. A 225/75R14 or 235/75R14 were just about a perfect fit, but I don't think ANY tire company is making those sizes now. A 215/75R14 is too small for a car that size.

If you keep the 15" wheels, even a 215 or 225/75R15 whitewall is getting harder to find than it should be, and none of the factory 1964 wheelcovers work with them. The Rocket emblem changed in 1965, so later 15" wheelcovers look out of place too.

But a nice aftermarket wheel could add to the elegance of a Ninety Eight, long as it's not blingy.

900-14 and 950-14 tires can still be bought, but they are going to be pretty pricey and only two sidewall widths are available. H78-14 tires have a very slightly lesser load rating than 900-14s and are significantly less costly but sidewall width is limited to wide. No one or one and a half inch white wall only 2-1/2" whitewall.

http://www.performanceplustire.com/p...res#prodAnchor

Or,

http://www.widewhitetires.com/

[joe_padavano]

Originally Posted by Texascarnut

14" wheels were pretty much standard from 1957 into the mid 1960's for most cars other than Cadillac and Lincolns. Not sure about Chrysler Imperials. The wheel size has virtually nothing to do with the load rating of the tires that were mounted on the wheels. In actuality there is less than 1" difference in the tire height between the two wheel sizes.

Wheel size and tire size are unrelated.

Here are some examples:

225/75-14 27.3" OD
225/70-15 27.4" OD (this is what some tire manufacturers call "plus one" sizing"
225/60-16 26.6" OD (here a two inch larger wheel has a tire that's 3/4" SMALLER in diameter)
225/50-17 25.8" OD (three inch larger wheel with a 1.5" smaller OD)

[Texascarnut]

Originally Posted by joe_padavano

Wheel size and tire size are unrelated.

Here are some examples:

225/75-14 27.3" OD
225/70-15 27.4" OD (this is what some tire manufacturers call "plus one" sizing"
225/60-16 26.6" OD (here a two inch larger wheel has a tire that's 3/4" SMALLER in diameter)
225/50-17 25.8" OD (three inch larger wheel with a 1.5" smaller OD)

Yup, that's pretty much it.

What I never understood was the business about using the next size up tire just because a car had A/C. Might have made some sense in the very early '50s with the huge evaporator/fan unit in the trunk, but after 1957 when most cars had through the dash systems it didn't seem to make much sense considering less than 200 lbs was being added to the overall vehicle weight. A fact well illustrated by all the "swing-on" units sold by Mark IV without the advice to buy bigger tires. Same could also be said of the with and without A/C water pumps. Dummy engineering?

[joe_padavano]

Originally Posted by rocketraider

Since the only way you can get those big 14" tires now is to go repop, you're very limited to what you can use on the car if you keep the 14" wheels. A 225/75R14 or 235/75R14 were just about a perfect fit, but I don't think ANY tire company is making those sizes now. A 215/75R14 is too small for a car that size.

225/75-14s for $48 each:

http://www.vulcantire.com/cgi-bin/ti...d=Froogle14179

[Dutch]

Thanks for all the replies and the leads, gentlemen...

I am going to check with the seller. He may even have the original 14" wheels left in the shed...

[jensenracing77]

i had a fully dressed 394 minus the flywheel on a 4 wheeled stand. i was a nervous wreck but had no trouble. i used a cheep engine stand and was good so just make sure that you have a good stand and you would be good.

[rocketraider]

Vulcan Tire link says the 225-14 tires are discontinued, sold out and they won't get any more.

Even Mastercraft no longer lists that size. Bah, phooey.

[Texascarnut]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Thanks for all the replies and the leads, gentlemen...

I am going to check with the seller. He may even have the original 14" wheels left in the shed...

For what it may be worth, 15" wheels were used or optional on '64 98s. If the seller does not have the 14s it might be easier to come up with a set of 15" hubcaps that would be correct.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Texascarnut

For what it may be worth, 15" wheels were used or optional on '64 98s. If the seller does not have the 14s it might be easier to come up with a set of 15" hubcaps that would be correct.

That may prove useful... I talked to the seller last night and he told me he got rid of the 14s about a year ago....

A 15" tire in the right height may be easier to source anyway. We were thinking of using a dog dish hubcap anyway...

Thanks!

[whosyourdaddy]

Originally Posted by rocketraider

14x6, 5x5 bolt pattern from 1957-1970. 1964 Ninety Eights rode on 9.00-14 rolling stock, as did Starfires with factory air conditioning. Starfires without air used 8.50-14 and Dynamic/Super 88s used 8.25-14. Bias ply of course. The alphanumeric profile didn't show up till 1968 or so.

Since the only way you can get those big 14" tires now is to go repop, you're very limited to what you can use on the car if you keep the 14" wheels. A 225/75R14 or 235/75R14 were just about a perfect fit, but I don't think ANY tire company is making those sizes now. A 215/75R14 is too small for a car that size.

If you keep the 15" wheels, even a 215 or 225/75R15 whitewall is getting harder to find than it should be, and none of the factory 1964 wheelcovers work with them. The Rocket emblem changed in 1965, so later 15" wheelcovers look out of place too.

But a nice aftermarket wheel could add to the elegance of a Ninety Eight, long as it's not blingy.

The previous owner of my '66 98 had 215/75R14s on, so I did some research online with tire companies, and they recommended that size as the replacement. I found a local tire shop with a reasonable set and are happy to say that after a front alignment it drives like a dream, no problems.

[Oldsguy]

Originally Posted by Dutch

...Oh... One more question... do you ever stop smiling once you own something this cool??

NO

[rocketraider]

Originally Posted by whosyourdaddy

I did some research online with tire companies, and they recommended that size as the replacement.

I can about guarantee that was because that was the largest 14" tire they could furnish. 215/75R14 are not as tall a tire as the old numeric designation and will definitely decrease the car's ground clearance as well as affect speedometer accuracy. Plus they just LOOK too small for such a big heavy car.

Sometimes we have to play with what we're dealt, and I can see a time I'm going to have to spring for reproduction tires for my Starfire if I keep the factory wheelcovers (which I happen to like).

I think all 15" wheel option cars were limited to dogbowl hubcaps.

[Oldsguy]

I had some J78X14s on my 1971 Cutlass, now those were some tall tires.

[Oldsguy]

I just found this information. It may be useful to some of us.

http://clubs.hemmings.com/clubsites/...conversion.htm

[whosyourdaddy]

Originally Posted by Oldsguy

I just found this information. It may be useful to some of us.

http://clubs.hemmings.com/clubsites/...conversion.htm

That is very informative!

[66ninetyeightls]

Originally Posted by rocketraider

I can about guarantee that was because that was the largest 14" tire they could furnish. 215/75R14 are not as tall a tire as the old numeric designation and will definitely decrease the car's ground clearance as well as affect speedometer accuracy. Plus they just LOOK too small for such a big heavy car.

I have 215/75R14's on my 1966 98 LS because its too damned hard to find a decent tire that's 225/75R14 with whitewalls. You can't see the difference in the tire since the difference in diameter is only 0.6 inches. As far as the speedo goes its only out by 2.2% which equals 1.3mph. In cars as old as these you are lucky if they were even that accurate from the factory.

[Oldsmobomb]

I have Dunlop SP40 whitewall radials, size P215/75R14, on my 1964 Starfire and they look and ride great.

This size is getting harder to come by at the tire dealers, altho they are available. It seems this is a common size for trailer tires.

[rocketraider]

Bomb, the question is are they load rated for car use?

Maybe 'cause I see too many trailers with blowouts on the side of the road, I don't trust a trailer tire for a car.

[Oldsmobomb]

Originally Posted by rocketraider

Bomb, the question is are they load rated for car use?

Maybe 'cause I see too many trailers with blowouts on the side of the road, I don't trust a trailer tire for a car.

================================================== ====

The Dunlops on the car now were purchased before I got it, and have held up well to all use since installation.

They are load rated for 1660 lbs max per tire at 38psi inflation, or 6640 lbs per set. Using the published wgt of the Starfire as 4250 lbs and bumping it up for fuel/etc to 4500 lbs, the tires would be operating at about 2/3 of rated load, if I had them inflated to 38psi, which I dont.

Just guessing, I would say I am operating the Dunlops at maybe 75% of their rated load, given inflation around 32psi. While operating at 1/2 of load rating for a set of tires would be nicer, I don't have any reservations in running the 215/75R14's on this car as long as I don't drive at excessive speeds or with extraordinarily aggressive habits.

The 215/75R14 "trailer tires" I mentioned seeing ads for are generally 6-ply with stiffer sidewalls. Having pulled boat trailers over the years, I would venture a guess that most of the blowouts seen are from trailers running passenger rated, not trailer rated, tires. Passenger tire sidewalls are usually softer and flex more, which equals more heat. Based on trailer towing experience, I wouldn't trust passenger tires on a trailer.

[Crow62]

I needed a spare to pull my '62 98 out of a barn, tried a 15" from a '66 Corvette and it was about .5" too small of a bolt pattern. Then tried a 15" from a Chrysler Imperial not sure of its age and it bolted right up. My car still has the bias ply tires on it 14 P78.

[dlh61olds]

I have two 1961 Olds

1961 Starfire with Cooper P225-75R14 Steel belted radials.

1961 Dynamic 88 coupe with BF Goodrich Bias Ply 850-14 (original size)

I have attached a picture of the two side by side.

The stance or ride height of the coupe looks much better to me,
because the diameter of the 850-14's is 1.2 inches greater
than the radials.

If not over inflated (28 max) you get a much nicer ride with a
reduction in cruise RPM's. Also better fuel economy.

When I can afford it I will replace the radials with bias plys
I like them much better.

[Oldsmobomb]

'61Star' - just out of curiosity, where and when did you purchase 8.50x14 bias plys with a narrow w/w and for what price ?