Jakespeed63

Hey Fellas, Have posted some info, about my latest project awhile back. Thought I would start a fresh thread, since the TH400 end of things is coming together.

As stated earlier, this car was found left for dead, in the back of a local tow yard. My BFF Nads, rescued it for me. Sheesh! Can't seem to get away from these "64" Oldsmobile's. GM Gods trying to tell me something.

With a little TLC, was able to get the engine to come to life, although the Slim Jim had no forward or Reverse.
(most likely the reason it was sitting in that tow yard.)
Since this is my 6th one of these cars, I am fully over that slush-box trans, and have taken the plunge with Ross Racing, to convert it to a more "modern" TH400.
Yes, a 700R4, would make it SO much better, but a close friend gave me a perfectly good Th400, from a '71 Cadillac. Tony assured me the extended tail shaft would be fine, and no additional cross member, would be needed.
Trans needed to be fully disassembled, prior to shipping. Tony/Ross Racing Shaves off the existing bell-housing and modifies the case to accept their adapter.
http://rossracingengines.com/p/225/o...utomatic-sc-6/
Excited to get it back, this week and begin re-assembly. No real need to make any internal upgrades or mods. Car is going to built for cruising Low n Slow, and a 1971 Cadillac DeVille with it's 500ci v-8 is more of a tank than my 98. I fabbed up a reasonable facsimile of a GM factory trans mounting bracket, to fit my engine stand. This is almost critical to a proper and easy teardown and rebuild. Factory bracket actually mounted on work bench, but doing this at work and don't think the city would appreciate me drilling big holes in their property.
OK, will keep y'all posted as progress continues.

oldcutlass

Look forward to the progress.

Jakespeed63

Trans arrived from Ross Racing yesterday. Looks great!. Pups thought the flywheel, kinda looked like a pizza.

Trying like hell to make room in my driveway, for this next project. Hoping to pull the trigger next weekend. Will keep y'all posted.

JT

Jakespeed63

Rocketeers, keep in mind, when doing this swap to a later model 394,
(61-64) you will have to purchase a different lower engine block shell. The flywheel is larger and requires starter motor to be relocated. This is accomplished via the earlier design lower bell housing/shell. Tony says, slight grinding may be necessary on the engine block, to allow for flywheel clearance.

JT

Jakespeed63

Despite the wet and rainy conditions outside...Inside Paragon Customs, was nice and dry. Perfect day to yank my engine. Thanks Eric!!!
Fairly sure this heap has been sitting since like 2004. That's what tag sticker AND license bureau say. I plan on a minor under hood detail job and light engine freshening. (assorted gaskets and timing chain/gear set)
Hope the cam looks OK, engine did run fairly well, before I pulled it out.

BTW...this Slim Jim trans is free to anyone whom wants it. Slips in F and R. Going to Charlotte Motorfest Friday. Could drag it up there. Will steam clean, at work, on Monday irregaurdless.

JT

Jakespeed63

A little more progress today. Brought engine home and started tearing into this 50 yr old time capsule. Not too bad, for its age. Minimal cam wear and timing chain free play. As stated earlier, it did run fairly well and no smoke to speak of. Would be stupid not to replace valve stem seals, along with other minor wear items. Struggling with weather or not to pull the cylinder heads, Trying to not get carried away.

"J" letter stamp, on cylinder head, designate/verify 3400, 3500 and 3800 series engine. (Dynamic 88, Super 88 and 98 respectfully)
10.25:1 comp ratio 4-Bbl

JT

Jakespeed63

Seems more often than not, but an ugly slimey, greasy engine turns out to be tip top inside. Also happy to find out, have almost ALL the gaskets I need to re-seal the whole engine block, including a rubber rear main oil seal.

oldcutlass

Wow, it's in really good shape, I wonder if someone already rebuilt it once? Does it have steel shim head gaskets?

Jakespeed63

Could not resist yanking cylinder heads. Gaskets seem to be a multi-layer steel shim type. Stuck like glue to block and heads. Valve guides have slight play, so gonna drop those off my machine shop(Auto Machine, Orlando, Fl)
Trying my damnest to keep the engine on a low budget, but do not want to cut any stupid corners. NOW is the time to do whatever it takes. All the valves look in decent shape. Hopefully a light valve job and maybe new guides will get the job done.

Engine block is in incredible condition. Not one bit of ridge on the cylinders. Camshaft looks nice as well. Will let Dennis at Auto Machine give me his professional opinion. I think it's totally re-usable.

Timing chain can still be set, on edge, without the two sides touching. Make me wonder what the history of this engine is. Truth be told...something tells me this car was well maintained, for the majority of it's life. 98's were expensive machines and until it was left for dead, at the towing company, must have been a good driving car.

If only cars could talk.

JT

Jakespeed63

HA! Ran across this article, on Wikipedia. Solidifies, the reason, I am spending the money to retro-fit this car with a TH400.
My Automatic trans teacher, in tech school circa 1983, was an Olds dealer line mechanic, when these were new. Told me, after buying my first '64 88, that these trans were junk then and now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldsmobile_98


Unfortunately for loyal Oldsmobile customers, GM management on Woodward Avenue in Detroit were focusing on cost savings per vehicle by this time, a philosophy later called "less car for more money" by the 1970s.[who?] One drawback of this thinking was that the 1961 through 1964 Oldsmobiles lost their dependable (but expensive to build) Jetaway Hydramatic transmissions. Replacing those time-tested four speed units was a much cheaper to build three speed unit, the Roto Hydramatic. This transmission had no front fluid coupling at all, and utilized a single "fill-and-dump" coupling to perform double duty as both a fluid coupling in third speed while having a third reaction member, which Olds called an "Accel-O-Rotor," which was actually a small stator, thus giving some limited torque multiplication in first. In theory, the "Accel-O-Rotor" would provide the same multiplication range in first as both the first and second gears of the four speed unit without all the hardware...and cost. It was also unique at that time, in that second speed was pure mechanical connection from engine to rear end...no fluid coupling involved. The big problem with this unit in the Oldsmobiles (and lower line Pontiacs of the same era) was engine speed would race wildly in first, and then hit a "brick wall" of a very steep RPM decline in second, which was equivalent to third gear in the four speed Jetaway Hydramatic.[citation needed] This unit was very trouble prone and unreliable, and cost a great deal of performance otherwise obtainable from the Rocket.[citation needed] It would linger for only these three years, when it was replaced by the much more reliable, but less efficient, Turbo Hydramatic in 1965. Customer complaints caused many dealers and independent transmission shops to wholesale replace the Roto Hydramatic in these cars with older (or contemporary, from a Pontiac Star Chief or Bonneville) HM315 four speed Hydramatic

Jakespeed63

Patiently awaiting cylinder heads, from local machine shop. In the mean time, doing everything I can, on the cheap, to make some progress.
With a gallon of Purple degreaser, pressure washer, various brushes and lots of elbow grease, managed to get engine bay cleaned.

Q:Have done allot of checking around, for proper GM chassis and firewall black. Found some at my local paint supplier, from Dupont and Eastwood offers a few different levels of this type of paint. Would really like to get it as close to factory as possible. Anybody any direct experience with these paints?? Concerned about resistance to grease oils and brake fluid. Plan on spraying with HVLP cup type gun.

In addition, SO glad the battery tray appears that it will simply unbolt, from core support. Should be able to replicate/fabricate new one using tools at my friends metal fab shop.
JT

Jakespeed63

Also, would appreciate any tips on converting master cylinder to a dual unit. No need to swap front brakes to disc, but would feel safer with a dual master cylinder set-up.

And, will be removing power brake booster and wiper motor to detail. Any experience with paint finishes for those items??

JT

Oldskeeper

Hi JT, looks like a great project, might be a good time to pull the heater core and get it redone, I have had a few of them start leaking after you reinstall the engine and have new antifreeze in the system.
Steve

Jakespeed63

NO DOUBT!! Actually gave that some thought. Living in Florida, could easily just bypass heater core, but I like having the extra coolant capacity. Thinking of an old school underdash A/C unit in the future. I have all the stuff to make it factoryu, but way too much work.

JT

NAS Backyard

Looks like Tony did a great job on your transmission. I got my stuff from him too. There's no such thing as "on the cheap " when your doing a 394. lol. I just put a 4 speed behind mine. How does your rocker shafts look? That is a sweet ride, I love 98's

KQQLCAT

I used a master cylinder from a 1966 Cadillac Deville from Rock Auto.
BENDIX Part # 11264 With this one you wont have to cut the wheel well for the lines because they mount on the engine side.

Jakespeed63

Thanks!! Will get one on order ASAP. With the engine out, now will be easier to re-plumb, if necessary. Thanks to all the grease and oil, factory brake likes are in perfect condition.

Jakespeed63

Yep, Tony is The Man! Been to Ross Racing and it gave me goosebumps walking around, looking at all the killer Rocket engines. He and his Pops are super down to earth, have helped me so much.

Rockers and shafts, as well as, camshaft are in amazing condition. Timing chain was even fairly decent. Old mechanics trick was to lay on the side and see if chain touches. This one did not even come close. Not taking any short-cuts, will be new, when it goes back together.

JT

Jakespeed63

Slowly but surely making progress. So glad I was able to get the battery tray out of core support. With the help of Paragon Customs, will make a new one.
Also working on the fabrication/mod of the transmission cross member. Center section had to be sliced and diced to accommodate TH400. Welded a 16" piece of 1"x1" along the bottom to strengthen.

JT

Freaky1

This is coming together great, very impressed. I'm really looking at doing the TH350 swap on my 64, mostly because I got one for a song, but also wasn't impressed with the SJ when I had the car on the road.I'll be following this thread closely.

Jakespeed63

WOW, has been quite a while since I have had a chance to work on this project. Thought I would bring y'all up to speed.

Staying focused on getting engine put back together. Overall in great shape, internally, just needed a new timing chain and updated rubber rear main oil seal. Also dug out tons of crap from inside the freeze plugs. SO glad I took the time to take this out and give it a thorough going over.

Somewhat disappointed that whoever rebuilt this engine, last time installed low compression pistons and what appears to be a 2bbl camshaft.

Jakespeed63

Part of the reason this car has been put on the back burner, has been that I was working on a customers 1954 Chevy Belair. Had been sitting for almost 25 years. So glad I took the time to thoroughly flush out the engine block. Brown water came out of after almost 20 minute of flushing.
Look at what came out of MY engine!! . And people shake their head, cause their old car overheats, even though they spent money on a new fancy radiator.
JT

Jakespeed63

Found these pictures on the web, of a car that is exactly the same as mine would have looked when new. WOW, really wish retaining the Fern Mist color combo was an option. Interior was too trashed to even think about saving.
Thinking of silver with black vinyl top. Acquired a complete black interior. Needs a little work, but very good overall condition. My local upholstery shop found me some fabric to match the original 1964 GM cloth inserts. $90yd!!

Jakespeed63

Well, its been a LONG time. Figured I would bring y'all up to speed on my project.

1. Vast majority of time and money went into the cylinder heads. I feel they are a crucial component that needs to be perfect. Bought all new springs and SS valves from Ross Racing. And had my local machine shop (Auto Machine and Parts) do all the work including hardened seats.

2. Checked degree of camshaft. Was close enough for this low compression non race motor. Complete overhauls deserve a new HP cam and a HP timing set from Ross. It allows you to either advance or retard timing. Worth the $180.

3. TH400 was completey rebuilt, using the new Ross Racing bellhousing. Quite a bit of fab work is required but again will be worth the effort. Crossmember must be cut and reinforced, to clear new adapter.
Engine block and adapter had to be ground to clear the new flywheel and torque converter.

4. Cleaned and painted the chassis using Rustoleum 777 satin black, cut with Deltron.

5. Motor was painted red using Ford Torch Red and trans Argent Silver. All brackets done in gloss black PPG single stage.

JT

Jakespeed63

A few more pictures.

oldcutlass

Looks great

Don R.

Looking good, I like the valve covers.

Jakespeed63

Well, time flies when you are having fun. Motor has been in, for quite some time now. had to sort through some electrical issues.
Seems power relay wiring was all chewed by animals and causing multiple circuit issues.
Aftermarket 30a relay and patience/ingenuity, fixed the problem.
Was able to scrape together the dough to get the custom hi-torque starter, from Ross Racing. Worth the wait!!
Wife's poor medical condition, has caused me to stash this project, in my friend's warehouse, till the smoke clears. So close, yet so far.

fv64olds98

Hello Jakespeed63,

Hope you are doing well, we have not seen any recent post of your restoration project in a while. I also have a 1964 98 (4 door 6 window sedan). I spent two years restoring it. You are doing a great job. I have my restoration pictures in facebook (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1&l=893ad40d6e) if you'd like to look at them.

I am contacting you, because I am looking to replace the Roto 375 transmission with the TH400. I spoke with Tony at Ross Racing and gave me some pricing and details on what comes in the kit. I wanted to see if I could ask you some questions. I am not sure if you'd had a chance to install the TH400 yet, so you may not know the answers to these questions.

1. Asides from having to cut the cross member to provide additional clearance did you have to do any modifications to the side motor mounts that bolt to the cross member to accommodate the bell housing adaptor

2. Did the TH400 fit under the tunnel. I read somewhere that the transmission tunnel on the 64s was lowered and that there could be clearance issues with installing the TH400 and that the tunnel would need to be modified

3. I read that you had to change the bottom half that covers the flywheel? did you have to get a different cover from a different year olds with a 394?

Any help you could provide would be greatly appreciated. My Transmission runs terrible and i don't want to waste money on a rebuild if this is a good option.

Jakespeed63

Sorry for not responding sooner.
1. the motor mounts I got, had to be elongated, a bit to fit. No biggy.

2. yes, the TH400 fits under the tunnel no problem, with the Ross Racing adapter. Tons of room!

3. Yes, you have to change the bottom shell/cover AND grind some of the edges to make the larger flywheel fit. ALSO, I opted to spend the extra money and get the new small hi-torque starter.

Feel free to call me anytime, if you have anymore questions. Car is sitting right now, until we move into a new house. Hope to get back on it real soon. Honestly way TOO hot in Floriduh right now to work outside. Plus rains almost every day.

JT
Orlando, FLA
863-257-0363