jstrits

I'll put a few up in a few hours. You'd like just some frame,rear and suspension area pics?

Johnd

Joe,


I just noticed the dash in one of the pictures. How rusted was it in this area and what did you do to repair it.


Thanks
JD

jstrits

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jstrits

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costpenn

Thanks for the pics. They are exactly what I was looking for.

Joe

costpenn

Hello Joe,

Just pulled the rear sway bar this morning, and there was a lot of nastiness where it meets the control arms - there is no saving them. This car has 4 shims on each side. You wouldn't happen to know anyone with correct looking arms - and what are the differences between my repo's vs. the Lansing pieces?

costpenn

Rolling Frame Diassembly (3 1/2 hours)

Began by removing the two fuel lines. They might be salvageable with a lot of cleaning, but will replaced anyway. Carefully recorded the clamp positions and colors as well as how the two lines interweave back and forth. Brake lines (main and front crossmember were both trash, but did the same documenting the hardware as on the fuel lines.

Removed and trashed the rear brake hoses and lines. Removed all four shocks and saved (if someone wants a set of used Late 70's Gabriel front hydraulic and rear air shocks you can have them for the cost of shipping) Then I loosened all 8 rear control arm bolts and nothing broke! Then went to the rear sway bar. I was worried about this the most, but this super hotrodded impact gun a friend loaned me has not yet a bolt it can't remove. The sway bar had 4 very badly corroded shims on each side thar had kind of fused together, and pressed outward the control arms putting a dent in them. More for the junk pile.

Went to the front and removed the front sway bar with no problems. Bracket to frame bolts came right out with no significant metal corrosion showing in the area where the power steering gear box had broken off due to severe rust. Started to remove the center link (which will also have to be replaced, but after removing all the castle nuts, I found that the ball joint separator is too wide between the tongs to do tie rods. Wiil have to wait till tomorrow to finish the frame diassembly.

I have also been bagging and labeling all the bolts coming off even though on the majority of them I already bought replacements from AMK. Will spend sometime tomorrow comparing the repos against the confirmed originals for correctness.

jstrits

The repops just have a little look of cheapness to them. The welds don't seam as thick as does the overall material. I did use a set recently due to what you saw on yours. They can get pretty deteriorated and the bushings are already there to install. I would maybe scuff and paint them with what ever black you decide as the black coating on them is thin and will have orange in some of the nooks and crannies over time (the mistake i made).

jstrits

No problem, keep in mind this is a 1971 and dabs, dots and #'s would maybe vary from car to car. I found this rear end to be loaded with graffitti. Thought it was neat to reproduce it. some guys like the clean look.

costpenn

More frame tear down (2 hours)

With the purchased tire rod separator, went ahead ans removed the tie rods from the steering arms and center link. Tie rod joints and sleeves are in good shape but despite my best efforts, the original grease boots are too far gone to reuse - another item to add to the ILT list. Ran into a problem trying to remove the center link from the OE idler arm. I really want to save it, but the joint refuses to bust loose. Anyone have any experience with this? Thinking about using some kind of gear puller.

Removed the rotors. These are original as well I believe - see pic below. With a good detailling and light turning these should be good to go. Next got the dust shields/caliper brackets/steering arms off. Not sure how the shields will look after plating - they look pretty pitted to me.

Wire wheeled the ball joint nuts (super nasty) to facilitate the A arm removal tomorrow and then did an evaluation of the AMK sourced fastener kits vs. the parts that came off the car. I pretty well bought just about everything new for the car underside since all I saw was rust underneath. Compared things such as shock absorber mounting hardware, sway bar bolts and nuts, control arm bolts and nuts, idler arm bolts, drag link/tie rod castle nuts, etc.. and so far everything is excellent. The right finish, lengths, completeness, and overall appearance. Most of the head markings are the same as well nevertheless, I am keeping all the old ones.

Sampson

Wire wheeled the ball joint nuts (super nasty) to facilitate the A arm removal tomorrow


Be careful compressing the springs when you remove the A arms Joe. This was a real PIA for me without the weight of the body/engine on the frame. When I tried to use a jack under the lower control arm the frame would go up instead of compress the spring. Helpful if you have a way to hold the frame down. I ended up purchasing a spring compressor that fit up through the shock hole to compress the spring. You probably already knew all this but it was one of those frustrating days for me when a 1 hour job turned into a frustrating day.

Boilerz25

x2 on the spring compressor....

costpenn

Thanks for the tip. I already bought a el cheapo Harbor Freight spring compressor, and my friend Chris has a home made compressor comprised of a long piece of heavy duty all thread, two nuts, two washers, and two pieces of 3/8 steel plate with a hole drilled in each which is a lot easier, and I think safer, to use.

Funkwagon455

Joe, The car is looking great, I'm glad I had the opportunity to have first hand "before" viewing. It makes the transformation even more interesting. I bought a set of boxed arms at the '99 Nationals on Sunday. Once I was home and more closely inspected them, I found that they were very badly pitted and felt that the purchase was a total waste. Some years later I decided to use one of those rotten arms to make a template for building faithful reproduction boxed arms. I radiaced the boxed portion out, flattened it and had the blueprint for making open arms into a convincing set of factory boxed arms. My first attempts were more function than fashion, sway bar mount reinforcement with a strap of steel stitch welded to the bottom. The pitted boxed arms provided the information needed to make them right. My first set of "faithful" reproductions were sadly sold off on the '70 SX. I am now getting ready to make another set to replace the generation I set on the wagon chassis. This was the reason for my PM requesting pics of the Rockauto version. I was rather tempted with the plug and play option at the price they offered..... Like yourself, I was suspicious (but hopeful) that they would be the same. As it turned out, those crappy boxed arms were not a waste of money after all!. Cheers!

costpenn

2 hours today and zero progress.

Heath, glad I was able to help. If you are going to do one more set, is another possible? (Heh, heh)

It is over 100 degrees out side (2 hours)

I was bound and determined to get the from A arms off today, but Chris was out of town (buying a 68 Cutlass S!) and i could not use his home made compressor so I thought I'd use the Harbor Freight Automotive Spring Tool I had previously bought.

What a waste of time, sweat and money.

First off, getting the jaws to grip the coils correctly is maddening. Trying to get the top one lined up so it sits level while doing the same on the lower one takes a couple of hands. Finally got it all lined up, and started turning the bolt to compress. Went a ways, and then it got hard to turn and started squeaking. It turns out the threaded shaft is too long and it is hitting the bottom of the upper A frame. Looked around the garage to see if anything can be used as a spacer. 5 bags of misc bolts and nothing. Would up going to the hardware store and buying some 3/4 nuts to use as spacers. Got the whole rig together and got to compressing again. This time it went a lot further, but the threaded shaft started hitting the bottom of the upper A frame again. Stopped there - removed the ball joint cotter keys and loosened the ball joint nuts somewhat. Then took the tie rod separator and busted the ball joints loose from the spindle knuckle, but left them attached. By this point I can't see from all the sweat in my eyes, so stopped there. Hopefiully will try again tomorrow with the right tools.

costpenn

Thanks for the tip Joe. Used the chains along with Chris D.'s compressor and everything came out nice, but see below entry...

costpenn

A Frames Out -Almost (2 1/2 hours)

Well, Chris got back yesterday and came by to loan me his spring compressor. It, along with Joe's tip to chain the springs, resulted in the springs being removed without disfigurement or dismemberment. After removing the lower ones, I was able to get out the upper & lower rubber snubbers intact, and they are in excellent condition with no dry rot. Will clean, derail and reuse and save another 30.00 with the exact, correct born with the car parts that are not a little off like almost all the repo stuff is. The springs themselves are 10 kinds of shot - they are so bent at the bottom that it is difficult to position them upright on the floor so they don't fall over. It is fascinating to me the things that survive, and those that don't.

But of course, it wouldn't be a resto without some kind of problem. Hit the first three nuts with the impact that hold the upper frame to the pressed studs on top of the frame. They came out like butter. The fourth was a lot tighter, but still came out. Problem is the shaft will not come off that stud. I beat the crap out of the edge of the A frame, tried hammering a wedge between the shaft and the frame with absolutely no movement. Anyone have this occur to them before?

Wire brushed a little of the engine goo out of the crossmember area and sprayed some PB blaster on the problem stud. Lots of parts to clean tomorrow, but have to figure out how to get that arm off before I can call the powder coating company to come pick up the frame, trans x member, front a arms for powder coating, the drums and rotors for blasting only, and the exhaust manifolds for jet coating in that super authentic bare casting color.

Also below are pics of he two body mounting holes that have some wastage. These will have to be fixed at the painter's place

costpenn

Also, here's some pics of my OE red wells and rag joint after Patton works his magic on them

Funkwagon455

Those red inners look remarkably good for their age!

70Post

These wells must have led a sheltered life!....one of the best pair I've ever laid my hands on.

Now I have to figure out a good story to tell Joe about how the dog ate them, how I got up one morning and they had just crumbled into a pile of red dust or maybe I can find a can of red paint and spray it all over some junky used wells and convince him that yes, those are HIS wells!

Now all you have to do is guess my dog's name.

Funkwagon455

....one of the best pair I've ever laid my hands on.

Car parts are not generally referenced in this manner, however you have certainly gotten my attention!

costpenn

I would think you might want to have your pulse checked if that wasn't the first thought you had after reading Patton's characterization of it!!

70Post

Well (no pun intended)....they do have a "shape" to them...large, round, and yes, there's a pair of them, etc.

Freudian slip maybe??!!

We better stop there or Joe may get concerned about his wells.

I did have a houseful of strippers over here the other night and I noticed they all looked upset every time they got near that pair of wells. They would stare and get sort of mad looking and then leave. As the last one was heading out the door I yelled..."what the heck is wrong with you people?!". She mumbled something like "there's NO WAY anyone can compete with those things..... they're too perfect".

OK...now we can stop

costpenn

A major milestone reached today. (5 hours)

Finished stripping the frame today, and disassembled the rear axle assy. as far as I am going to go. With today's work, I will have finished disassembling every component that there is to disassemble. Total actual work hours till now on the car since I received it - 349 and 1/2 hours. This is everything done till now that is actual work on the car - does not include things such as research, parts look up or ordering, travel delivering or picking up parts, or unnecessary time frittered away quite frivolously here on CO. Interesting - the time it took me to get the car to where it was just the body shell on a roller (to go to the paint shop) was only 37 hours.

Today finished pulling that last upper control arm off the studs. Took a lot of banging with a 5lb. sledge but it finally gave way in a cloud of rust. The stud was so badly rusted to the shaft - will have to check it before automatically reusing.

Turned to removing the rear axle from the frame. Since I had already pre loosened the control arm bolts, this was rather uneventful. I did note that there are three different types of rear control arm bolts. The kits you buy sell you all the same bolts, and I am sure it will work - it is just not correct.

Type 1 bolt (2 only) These are the ones that attach the lower arms to the frame. They point to the center of the car, use a flat washer on the nut side and have a "pilot" on them. Most uniquely, the head of the bolt has a built in washer (think like a big valve cover bolt)

Type 2 bolt (2 only) These attach the lower arm to the rear axle assy. These point OUTWARD from the car centerline, and have no washer behind the nut. The head is normal and these also have a "pilot"

Type 3 bolt (4 only) These attach the upper control arms to the axle assy and frame. These have no pilot, no washers, and the heads are normal. Interestingly, the ones that attach to the frame point towards the car center line, but the ones that attach the arms to the axle assy. point out wards from centerline. May be way too trivial for some, but again found out how much the repo parts can be different from OE.

Pulled the axles from the unit along with the backing plates. One of the wheel bearings had at some point been changed. I went online tonight and found a NOS pair of 7451959 bearings and bought them. Do not want to go through the grief I experienced with the tapered cone bearings on the 72.

Pulled the cover off and drained the housing. I have decided not to rebuild the ring & pinion and just leave it alone. Everything looked brand new in there and there was zero contamination inside. Wear pattern was great - no wear on the ring gear. The biggest challenge will be how to keep the inside from getting dirty with all the sanding and cleaning I will have to do on the outside of the unit.

Drilled out the upper ball joint rivets and removed them. See my other thread about this - I am going to try to reuse them.

Loaded up all the suspension pieces that need to have something pressed out of them along with the axle shafts to have the bearings pressed off and took them to a trusted garage. Tomorrow it is parts cleaning time again. Have to send the front dust shields and caliper brackets (along with my hot air shroud) to Texas Precision Plating and determine whether I can or want to save the original tie rods and sleeves. There's also the rear backing plates and retainers, frame stiffeners, engine pads, rotors, drums, brake hose brackets, control arms, sway bars, front spindles, rear axles, about 10 bags of bolts, and six original suspension snubbers to recondition.

Boilerz25

Great work getting the frame disassembled! You going to powdercoat it now?

costpenn

Sean, will be doing soon. Hope it comes out half as nice as yours did.

costpenn

Misc work since last post (approx. 4 hours over last three days)

After the amazing work Greg at Sparky's did on my OAI motor, I am sending him the front brake shields, caliper brackets and hot air stove to combine within the completed parts he has done.

Rear brake backing plates are going off to get blasted along with the rotors and drums. They are very pitted - might have to pony up for a set of repos.

Speaking of repos, yesterday I worked on the 3 pairs of rubber snubbers I had removed from the car (upper and lower front control arm, and rear axle) I thought they were salvageable and they were. A soaking in the undiluted Simple Green and the a light scrubbing made the things look brand new. I had already bought from Rock Auto the repo front upper and rear end snubbers. Glad I could reuse the originals since there are differences. The front uppers (they look like an acorn) look similar to OE, but they are about 20% smaller and do not have the P/N on them. The rears are about 20% bigger than the original and are missing some detail ridges that go lengthwise on them around the bottom. I find it amazing that there always seem to be differences in the repos, even when there seems to be no logical reason to have them.

Got my cam in from Supercars Unlimited. I am checking it out to see if it is as advertised - stay tuned.

NDERISE

just thought I would post pics I took yesterday of my trans marks as mine has a small 2 in front of the ow
ray

costpenn

More dirt and grease (5 1/2 hours)

Thought I was almost done getting filthy working on parts. Maybe one more day left after today.

Began by cleaning the two short metal fuel and return tubes that go through the front crossmember. I carefully & gently cleaned as best as I could the original tar & fiber wrap, trimmed off a little of the frayed fibers, and wirewheeled the exposed tubing. I then painted the wrap part with a light layer of the Krylon Camoflauge paint. Finished item pic below.

Then moved onto the tie rod assemblies. They are all the original items and decided to try to save them since all the joints are tight. Took detailed pictures of alignment/orientation and depth of the rod adjustment into the sleeves and then disassembled. Dunked the sleeves and hardware in the carb cleaner tank and scraped, degreased, and wirewheeled within a inch of their lives the tie rods themselves. Then heavily clear coated the tie rods, painted the sleeve tubes in the dark metal paint I used on the driveshaft, the sleeve clamps in Eastwood Chassis Satin, and the bolts in the zinc phosphate paint. Letting all the finishes completely dry before reassembling the units. One downer - I noticed the driver's side inner tie rod is slightly bent. Will post a note in the classifieds looking for a good used one.

Moved onto the steering arms. These things, although pretty simple, were heavily rusted and hard to clean. I did not find any paint marks on them. Plan on painting these in the detail gray paint tomorrow.

Then started on the spindles. Only got to one, but did uncover original paint daubs. The top outward mark is orange, and the back of the arm is painted a medium green.

Still have front & rear sway bars, front hub dust covers, brake hose brackets, & engine mount pads to clean. Also will need to keep or replace the main fuel & return tubing lines.

Lastly, found a new fastener marking I had never seen before. On the nuts that go on the sleeve clamp, they have a little square marking on one of the sides of the nut. Something for me to get excited about while covered with 44 years worth of corrosion and front end grease.

costpenn

Still more dirty work, but the pay off is worth it (4 1/2 hours)

Today I got back my control arms and rear axles after having the old bushings, ball joints, and bearings removed. My front lower LH control arm is junk. It is bent and the bushing mount holes got badly distorted when the old bushings were removed. My local parts store just happens to have a excellent used one with the oval hole for 75.00 - sold!

Got back home and got to nasty parts cleaning again. Finished up the stripping and refinishing of the following components

Steering arms - Detail Gray
Brake hose brackets -Zinc Phosphate
Engine mount pads - Eastwood Satin Chassis
Spindles - Duplicolor cast iron
Frame to rear end stiffener brackets - Ford semi gloss black

Did not like the way the stiffener brackets came out due to the severe pitting. Going to have to find better ones, and also will have to buy new repo front rotor dust covers due to mine being way too bent up.

Stripped but did not paint the upper a arm cross shafts, and assembled the RH tie rods and sleeve unit. Still looking for a good OE inner tie for the other side, as well as a good used center link.

HWYSTR455

Very common to have them distort, it's mostly from sloppy removal. The way to prevent this is to use a piece of exhaust tubing to support the open side of the control arm.

I just did this last Saturday, have an OTC service kit, which is basically a big C clamp and some jigs. That, the U shaped exhaust support I made, with an impact, and no damage at all when it's properly supported.

I used to melt out the rubber, and use a chisel to collapse the collar of the bushing, which is really only held in place by the one side of the control arm. But that method gets too messy.

Hope this helps someone...

.

HWYSTR455

I wish I had a big garage. I work in a 20x20, with a car on one side, tool boxes, a work bench, and shelves. It's tight, and that's an understatement. But I've done some nice stuff in there, proof is in the pudding.

I'm watching here, as well as other places for ideas, because I just started my other A-body project, cloning a 70 Judge with my LeMans. I just dropped the frame. In that garage. That 20x20 one. With no air tools. No overhead hoist. Without using the cherry picker. It can be done. And yes, it's stable.

Pics of what I started with, what it looks like after 2 weekends, and the frame going to the powder coater. I will do a build thread on the Pontiac site if anyone is interested.

.

costpenn

Ray, that is really different from mine. The number is bigger, and the weird comma looking thing is in a completely different place. All this has to mean something. Maybe someday someone who used to work in the tranny plant will read this and correctly interpret it for us!

costpenn

Hopefully something I have done and written about will be of some use to you. Excellent use of the space, and that frame looks really solid with a lot less rust on it than mine!

costpenn

A tiny bit of work, and other project info (1/2 hour)

Sprayed the concentrated degreaser on the axle shafts and retainer plates. Will try to remove the lug studs to facilitate the detailing of the ends, but if it gets to be a big deal will leave them in and work around.

Other news, the cam I bought from Supercars Unlimited - the 70 442 MT cam - is not right. I wanted to get a little more lope at idle but not compromise engine vac. This cam steps up duration a little and increases the overlap from 57 to 68 degrees over the 400165 W-30 A/T cam.
I used our cam doc here and measured it three times on three different cylinders. Turns out what I received was the 402194 W-31 grind (308 advertised duration at .006 lift, and 82 deg overlap) I have a bunch of these on the shelf here at my company so I don't heed another one. I called Supercars and they got me in touch with the company who supplies them these cams. They were very helpful and told me to send the cam back along with the specs our analysis provided. I think what they do is buy the W-31 cam and regrind it to the required specs, but someone forgot to do the actual regrinding. Looks like they are going to stand behind their product - very refreshing.

Also, confirmed today that my business will be featured in a full episode of Motorhead Garage on the Velocity Network. We will be doing a piece on building a 383 Chev stroker with one of our HP kits. Got to talk at length today with Sam Memmolo getting things set up for the taping next week in Bristol TN. Sam seems like a really nice guy compared to most of the industry "legends" and personalities that turn out to be first class asshats when you meet them in person. They wanted to know if I could bring a car for set "eye candy" but I just don't have enough time to do this cost effectively, or otherwise a certain '68 Hurst would be on TV!

jensenracing77

I wonder how many people got the wrong cam and installed it not knowing the difference.

HWYSTR455

Yes, thank you, am picking up tips & ideas here & there watching this thread. And all I'm sure appreciate all you're doing.

I can bring the '72 down for some eye candy, it shows and photos well, can make it to Bristol in a few hours. PM me.

.

costpenn

A little work this morning - this having to go to work thing is really cutting into my resto time (1 hour)

Painted the upper control arm shafts in the Ford Semi gloss black. Also began trying to clean the axle shafts. Knocked out all the lug studs with a nut screwed over the end and a 5 lb. sledge. There is a lot of white factory marking paint all over the shafts. Some of it in the hard to clean and detail little cauldron on the hub face, a line around the back of the hub, and then a big wide patch about at the middle of the shaft itself.

No work tomorrow, again that pesky employment, but this weekend I will finish everything I have left to do excerpt send the frame off to powdercoating.

jensenracing77

The white paint in the middle was only on axles from an SF TM and TO rear end. (or any W-27) These axles are what makes a TM 3.42 better than an SH 3.42.

BlackGold

I'm curious where you got this information from. I'm not doubting you -- just want to learn.

My own '70 W-30's SF rear has the white (more of a beige, really) splotches on the axles. There's another splotch of the same color on top of the cast center section.

If what you say is true, then this must have been how they differentiated a SF rear end destined for a W-30 from a normal SF rear, because they didn't have a different code for the 3.23 rear like they did for the 3.42 and 3.91 for W-cars.