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Old February 10th, 2012, 03:59 PM   #1
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62 Jetfire engine, trans, & turbo rebuild

i would like to hold off on doing this but i just don't think i should. the transmission is just not right. i can drive it but don't want to risk making things worse. i am also going to send Jim Noel the turbo/carb system to get rebuilt. the engine runs great but seeps oil here and there and i don't want to put a new turbo setup on a 50 year old engine. i would like to have this done by spring but it is a matter of if i can sell my old race quad. if it don't sell i may not have this done till fall. i plan to mostly just freshen up the engine bay but don't plan to go to far with that. mostly just clean what is there and not repaint much other than what is attached to the engine. next winter i plan to pull the engine cradle back out and put the body on a rotisserie. from what it looks like the engine/front suspension drops out the bottom really easy. i will find out tomorrow.

i started with draining the fluids tonight.
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Old February 11th, 2012, 03:43 PM   #2
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things went much better than i thought they would today. the bolts came apart like they were just put in last week. i had one exhaust bolt that i had to take some time on but got it out without braking it. other than that i only had a brake line hold me up. the driver side brake line would not brake loose from the hose. i found where it was just a little thin at the nut so i decided to cut it. i will get a new one, it is only about 10 inches long. after seeing the 50 year old gaskets, it is no wonder it was leaking oil. the cylinder has minimal wear and so far all the parts look great. time to start cleaning parts, yuck. that is the worst part of doing this stuff.
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File Type: jpg fire2.jpg (51.9 KB, 71 views)
File Type: jpg fire3.jpg (48.2 KB, 64 views)
File Type: jpg fire4.jpg (49.4 KB, 62 views)
File Type: jpg fire5.jpg (68.7 KB, 65 views)
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Old February 11th, 2012, 03:49 PM   #3
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these bolts don't look to bad for being out of a 50 year old car that typically rusted off the face of the earth. i wonder what the parts store would say if you went in there and said you needed a turbo rocket fluid filter.
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Old February 11th, 2012, 05:05 PM   #4
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Eric, that looks like a sweet car! Is it yours? Not many turbos left anymore! Would be cool to see someone do a turbo swap into a '61 or '62 wagon! Have fun with the grease!
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Old February 11th, 2012, 05:15 PM   #5
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we picked this up about 3 weeks ago. we were looking for a 62 f-85 Cutlass but found this in our quest and the wife fell in love with it. this will be for her but i will likely drive it more than her.

Jim Noel is the Jetfire expert and he did convert a wagon to look just like a Jetfire wagon. the complete turbo, body side trim and all. i am sending him my turbo/carb setup to get rebuilt. my turbo has been changed at some point over the years and would like to get a red one back on it but it is $600 to do the red ceramic on it.

i hope to get started on cleaning tomorrow.
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Old February 11th, 2012, 05:51 PM   #6
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Damn, that's a nice car.

Congratulations!

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Old February 11th, 2012, 07:22 PM   #7
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Wow! I didn't know the engine/transmission/crossmember would come out as a unit like that. I hope your able to come up with the funding to do it this spring. I suspect your wife would like to drive it as soon as possible

To the other Erik, have you see the thread about Joe P's wagon? I believe he was/is putting in the Rover version of the 215 aluminum engine to replace the stock setup. John
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Old February 12th, 2012, 01:42 PM   #8
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john.. ya the wife wants to drive it bad. the deeper i get into it the more i realize it is not likely to be done by spring. we are getting ready to work alot of overtime at work and on top of that i have to find time to sell parts to pay for all this. i am selling many things i had set aside for future use. i think i am even going to sell my nice 70 only front fenders. took me years to come up with them. if i could sell the race quad i would be good to go all the way.
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Old February 12th, 2012, 01:47 PM   #9
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not much done today. finished pulling the engine apart and started cleaning on the heads. i have a friend with a professional grade ultrasonic cleaner. i hope he wil let me put some of this stuff in there after i degrease it. the ring gap was .028, i thought it would be worse than that. the bearings were also good at .0015. maybe i should have just resealed it and not rebuilt it. to late now.
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Old February 12th, 2012, 01:57 PM   #10
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john.. ya the wife wants to drive it bad. the deeper i get into it the more i realize it is not likely to be done by spring. we are getting ready to work alot of overtime at work and on top of that i have to find time to sell parts to pay for all this. i am selling many things i had set aside for future use. i think i am even going to sell my nice 70 only front fenders. took me years to come up with them. if i could sell the race quad i would be good to go all the way.
Eric, I think your a lucky man to have a wife who not only tolerates your hobby but want's a car like this to drive Do whatever it takes keep her happy. You may have to pay a little more, but you'll find other 1970 fenders down the road. John
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Old February 18th, 2012, 04:23 PM   #11
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cleaning parts and painting. the painting is ok but the cleaning is no fun at all. my wife thought the help sign was in the perfect place. if i kick the bucket before this is together she will be be needing all kinds of help, lol.
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Old February 22nd, 2012, 04:50 PM   #12
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i was seeing antifreeze on the bottom side of the engine when the car was together. i looked hard to see where it was coming from but couldn't find it. the more i looked the more i believed it was coming from the weep hole on the water pump. i didn't think it was but i guess i wanted to believe it because i couldn't find anywhere it was coming from. well, i think i found it on the bottom side of the intake. before i cleaned the area it had what looked like a stalactite from antifreeze seeping out of it
i figure having it welded would be the best thing to do. i am worried it will blow through. there are high temp epoxies that would fill and fix it but it is about $75 for a real small amount of it. welding would be less but i am worried to have that done. i think i will have a local welder look at it and see what he has to say about it.
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Old February 22nd, 2012, 07:44 PM   #13
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A good aluminum welder should be able to fix that, no problem - remember, if it's really thin, there are alloy welding rods that melt at a lower temperature, but should be fine for a non-structural application like that.

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Old March 4th, 2012, 04:52 PM   #14
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i found a crack on the inside of this manifold where this bad casting is. i used a friends video scope and the crack is bad. i located another one so i hope to have it soon. i don't have that much done since the last post. i repainted the generator and picked the seals out of the bearings and cleaned them. packed full of new grease and put the seals back in. i know the new bearings would be cheap but there wasn't anything wrong with these. also had to solder the nipple back on the air cleaner for the PCV hose. i have done tons of cleaning and blasting but not many pics yet. i will be working over time now so not much will get done for a while.
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File Type: jpg gen2.jpg (53.8 KB, 34 views)
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Old March 20th, 2012, 05:29 PM   #15
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Jim Noel sent pictures of the finished turbo/carb/fluid injection. looks great! we are very excited to drive this car but it is going to be a while before it is done.

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Old March 20th, 2012, 05:36 PM   #16
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That's going to be a sweet ride when your done. One of the members of our local OCA chapter has a 62 Jetfire coup similar to yours only red in color with a white top. He is the second owner.
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Old March 20th, 2012, 07:10 PM   #17
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Lookin Good
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Old April 16th, 2012, 04:40 PM   #18
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the block and rotating assembly is at the machine shop and the transmission is at the trany shop. i got the heads back from D&D with the new cam, lifters, high volume oil pump and timing chain. now the problem is time again. i have something in the works and may not get back to this till fall .
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Old April 17th, 2012, 03:22 PM   #19
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i got the water pump and balencer back. i sent the water pump to Water Pump Man in MI http://www.waterpumpman.com/ and the balancer to Winslow Mfg.Co. in NC http://www.winslowmfg.net/ . i am very pleased with both of them. i think the water pump was good but i see more water pumps go out on people at car shows than anything else. i always wondered if that was a coincidence or if it is because they sit so much and the cooling system gets neglected. i wasn't going to risk it so i spent the $99 to rebuild it. these may be availabe at the parts store or someplace for less but who knows where or by who it was rebuilt. this way i know it is a quality part. also the rubber in the balancer was a little dry rotted so i sent it in also. it was also $99. now it is at the machine shop to get balanced with the rotating assembly. i ques time will tell how long they last.
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File Type: jpg water pump 1.jpg (43.1 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg water pump 2.jpg (43.0 KB, 12 views)
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Old April 17th, 2012, 04:38 PM   #20
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Starting to come together. All it takes is time and money
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Old April 17th, 2012, 04:43 PM   #21
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Out of curiousity, have you considered using old Land Rovers/Range Rovers as a source of engine parts? They used the Buick variant of the 215, not the Oldsmobile one, but I have to assume there is still some interchangability for stuff like water and oil pumps, and maybe even some of the bottom end parts.
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Old June 25th, 2012, 04:38 PM   #22
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my transmission shop called and told me the transmission was done! he said it was hard finding all the parts but got them all from his suppliers. he said the filter was even NOS GM. i thought it would be between $1000 and $2000 but it came to $680. i think he give me a deal because i bring him lots of business. he is one of the top transmission builders out there but most of the time you have to pay big for it.

the machine shop also called and updated me. they have to bore it 30 but the rods and mains will still be standard size. things are coming along real good. i plan to take a week vacation in late July to get most of this back together. i will get more pictures posted soon.

good thing we are almost through the overtime at work.... i have way to many irons in the fire
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Old June 26th, 2012, 10:07 PM   #23
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I sent you an E-mail a few days ago. Did you receive it?

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Old June 27th, 2012, 02:01 AM   #24
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I sent you an E-mail a few days ago. Did you receive it?

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ya, i would be real interested but with buying out my buddy i can't buy anything right now. i forwarded it to Ken in NJ. he has 2 of them. i think he had someone look at it for him.

thanks for letting me know about it.
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Old June 27th, 2012, 05:36 AM   #25
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I have nothing of value to add, other than I am really enjoying this thread!! Keep the updates coming! Love those little motors! especially with turbo.
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Old July 28th, 2012, 07:30 PM   #26
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AT LAST!Click the image to open in full size. i am back on this project. after some big delays i am now putting it back together. i only had 4 hours for it today but this is what i got done so far. i calculated the compression and it came out to 10.0 on the nose. i am on vacation this week so i plan to have it mostly done. more pictures to come this week!
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Old August 2nd, 2012, 04:12 PM   #27
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Almost done. i am not sure if i will get much done tomorrow but Saturday i hope to have it back in the car. not sure when i will fire it up but could be Sunday. i almost hate starting engines after a rebuild. trying to get the timing right, braking in the cam, watching the temp... while smelling burnt paint, oil and misc... i just get nervous with everything happening at the same time.



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Old August 3rd, 2012, 05:29 AM   #28
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Talking

Looks great! Start up is a nervous yet exciting time, no matter how careful you have been, you just never really know.
As I have always said, "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness......"

Wait....I guess it was Charles Dickens who always said that, not me.....
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Old August 3rd, 2012, 06:54 PM   #29
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it is in the car now. i should be firing it up tomorrow. i have a little wiring and vacuum/fuel lines to run, and the radiator to install and it should be ready. you would think with a lift i wouldn't have to crawl around on the floor. i got stuck in a situation to where i had no choice but to just get dirty.
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Old August 4th, 2012, 06:44 PM   #30
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IT'S ALIVE!!!!!

it didn't take much at all to get it started. after it fired, i timed it close enough to run a while and broke in the cam for 15 minutes at 2000 RPM. i had to turn it off because it had got to 200 degrees. i let it cool off and started over. i let it run for another 10 minutes at about 1700 RPM. after that i tested and tuned all day. i have some of the tuning bugs worked out but have some others i need to deal with. there are alot of little gizmos on the turbo system but most all of that is adjusted where it needs to be. i took it on two drives totaling 18 miles and never got over 190 degrees in over 90 degree weather. i have to adjust the TV rod for the Hydramatic. i have it close but needs a little tweaking. also have some vacuum advance issues.

the biggest thing i can't get worked out is there is a dead spot in lite acceleration. i keep thinking accelerator pump but it seams to be working perfect when i look inside with the engine off.

Scott... looking like i wil be bringing the Jetfire to the Suds.

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Old August 4th, 2012, 07:58 PM   #31
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SWEET! Congratulations!

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Old August 4th, 2012, 09:20 PM   #32
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May need to increase the squirt jet size or increase the length of the squirt.
may need a jet increase.
What did you sit the timing at?

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Old August 5th, 2012, 04:29 AM   #33
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i set the timing to 10, that is what the oldsmobile csm has for the Jetfire. at cruising speed it don't have the dead spot, just at low speed or trying to take off from a stop. i have to pump it a little to get it to go. i have an extra carb from a jetfire. i will take it apart and look how it works. i had this one rebuilt so i don't want to mess with it till i know what i am looking at. i am not sure if i can increase the length of the squirt on this carb.
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Old August 5th, 2012, 05:00 AM   #34
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Just my 2, but I'd get the vacuum advance question straightened out before questioning the carburetor. It could be that.

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Old August 5th, 2012, 05:12 AM   #35
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i plan to do that but it is doing it with the vacuum advance hooked up or unhooked. i even tried setting the timing to 13 with the vacuum unhooked. set that way, it does the same thing, just barley give it gas and it will die. if you pump it, it will take off.
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Old August 5th, 2012, 05:20 AM   #36
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Thumbs up

Nice to see another Jetfire . Do your self a favor and make sure the radiator is flowing properly. Those 215's are famous for plugging them up from corrosion. They were not as advanced with aluminum when that car was new and alot suffered overheating problems.

Also as I learned from my '63 F-85 buy the best coolant out there, Like Prestone. Don't buy junk like Peak it doesn't work well with these engines

Keeping then cool is the biggest thing with those motors otherwise they are alot of fun.
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Old August 6th, 2012, 12:55 PM   #37
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Congrats on getting the engine running and broken in. Earlier you mention a guy named Jim Noel, is he in Minnesota? I ask, because when I was at the Nats., there was a 63 Jetfire vert outside. Talking to a guy that had 1 of the gassers there, about the car. Anyway, this older guy starts talking about the turbo setups and seemed very knowing about them. He said he rebuilds them and he's from Minn. Just wondering if it was the same guy that did yours.
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Old August 6th, 2012, 02:33 PM   #38
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that is the guy. he likely knows more bout these cars than anyone in the world. i need to call him tonight and get more advice. i am sill having issues i can't figure out.
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Old September 7th, 2012, 04:18 PM   #39
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i ran a tank of gas through the Jetfire with the GPS hooked up. with 50% city driving and a dozen or so times of stepping on it and idle time tuning. it got 16.7 MPG. i think a full tank of highway driving it would be over 20. not that i am worried about it but it is neat that in 1962 they could do this good without overdrive. the car is only 2900 lbs so that helps.
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