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The shop owner is so used to Porsches, that he was shocked at how large the 68 442 is. It's almost twice as long as the 62 356 he has in the shop and 1 1/2 as wide. The 96 hp Porsche engine wouldn't move the 442 very fast. The 402 hp, 510 ft lbs of torque move it nice, even if the tires do smoke a bit. !!!!!
The restoration shop called me yesterday and asked me to stop in. When I got there the owner stated that the car required shims between the frame and the body mount. I questioned this and he started to turn red and he blew a gasket, literally. He said that no one questions him and that he knew what he was talking about.Then he proceeded to say that after the body shell is painted, I would take it home while he painted the fenders, doors, hood and trunk. I said that I was paying for a body restoration and it was agreed that it would be body complete, not parts loose.and in boxes.
Today he called me up and again he wanted to see me, he advised me that he wanted my car out!! So...as of Friday it comes home and I look for a new shop. Oh well it was going good, I paid for the paint already and I get that too!!!
Last edited by maddoctor; November 11th, 2020 at 02:31 PM.
I would have questioned that also because I haven't heard that before. No harm in asking, just remind him that he works for YOU.
Oh Yea, I like your car too....
I would have questioned that also because I haven't heard that before. No harm in asking, just remind him that he works for YOU.
Oh Yea, I like your car too....
Thanks, as I said it was going good until I questioned him, then he turned into the body shop **** like on Seinfeld, LOL.
The only reason I could think that shims would be required on the body mounts would be if the frame was tweaked (or the body braces were installed incorrectly). The core support bushings do need shims.
The only reason I could think that shims would be required on the body mounts would be if the frame was tweaked (or the body braces were installed incorrectly). The core support bushings do need shims.
Yes, before I had the frame blasted I had checked it against the chassis manual for cross point dimensions and had it on a jig for any irregularities. It came back good. This guy did not like being questioned. Who knows????? I will move on, no loss for me, other than lots of cash LOL.
Here is a pic of the hood, it was pretty clean, under all that paint. I think I found a shop to do the final work and assembly, but no opening until early spring. I am hoping for late winter, we will see. In the interim I will assemble stuff like the fuel tank and lines, wiring harness. That should be about three days worth of work....oh well. The hood is bare! Look at the shine!
Thanks, as I said it was going good until I questioned him, then he turned into the body shop **** like on Seinfeld, LOL.
l have been doing little stuff to the car but that is quickly coming to an end. It appears that the earliest I can get it into a reputable shop is March. Until then I guess I will wait
The shop that did most of the work really messed my timelines and my forward progress. The day I removed my car on his request, he held out his hand in an attempt to shake as he said "no hard feelings, it just didn't work out" . I walked past him laughing.
Wow I see I wrote something that offended people, sorry was not my intent
I was just relating the experience to the episode of Seinfeld that had the soup chef .
Last edited by maddoctor; May 15th, 2023 at 09:06 AM.
Not offensive at all, just missed the reference, lol. Loved that show, that episode is iconic.
Seems to me the guy was just looking for a reason to dump your project.
You were right to question something abnormal.
Great thread, enjoying following the progress. Looking forward to seeing the finished product.
Thanks for posting.
I have a quick update, there are two possible shops that will finish my car. One is quite well-known the other is an older gentleman that has a large shop at his home. The older gentleman is coming to see what work is remaining and to give me a solid quote as there are no surprises to uncover at this point in the restoration. The well known shop wants me to bring it to them to do an inspect, good thing a close friend has an enclosed car trailer. I will inform once things are finalised.
Take care....
Vince
As a shop owner that seemed pretty unreasonable to boot it out just over the questioning him on the shims. Must be more to it?
We generally want to see projects through for the owner unless they become a PIA. Complaining about payment and being slow to pay is a very fast way for me to get rid of a customer.
The second fastest way is to become an internet expert and tell me what products and how I'm going to work on a project.
Both of those scenarios are a sure bet I'd send a customer packing. This work is hard enough as it is. You have to remember that most of us are oddball/creative/ocd types that don't always play well with others. PIA customers are always better sent packing as most of have so much work we want to create for people that are appreciative. Not all customers/shops blend. I interview the potential client more than they do me.
As a shop owner that seemed pretty unreasonable to boot it out just over the questioning him on the shims. Must be more to it?
We generally want to see projects through for the owner unless they become a PIA. Complaining about payment and being slow to pay is a very fast way for me to get rid of a customer.
The second fastest way is to become an internet expert and tell me what products and how I'm going to work on a project.
Both of those scenarios are a sure bet I'd send a customer packing. This work is hard enough as it is. You have to remember that most of us are oddball/creative/ocd types that don't always play well with others. PIA customers are always better sent packing as most of have so much work we want to create for people that are appreciative. Not all customers/shops blend. I interview the potential client more than they do me.
Good luck with your project.
No, it wasn't the shim issue, it was the fact that we had agreed upon a full restoration. As the shell was about to be painted he said he was going to paint the shell, I could bring it home and he would paint all the rest, ( doors, fenders ,hood, trunk) and I could assemble at home. Plus we agreed upon Glasruit paint and he gave me some paint by the name of General???? Then he said show me the contract. We had a gentleman's agreement, handshake, my mistake. He is not professional in his business, a very meticulous and talented body man but no invoice done on a proper piece of paper, and he wanted cash, but I wrote cheques.
Several shop owners are coming those week to see it and give quotes, within 10 percent, that I can live with. I was not a PIA, as this is not my first restoration, I have done many but this is the first that the bookshop owner was a terrible businessman. He had his money the day he asked for it,
and lots of it. Let's just say for the work done to the body only, it's over 50 k+++
Last edited by maddoctor; March 1st, 2021 at 03:06 PM.
Most of us that want to do the work are terrible business men. Took me many years and my wife on my butt to get that straightened out.
I've never heard of general paint. Surprised a shop that works on 356's is using cheap stuff. I've done 2- 356's and a first year 911 and those guys take weird to the next level.
Depending on the color panel painting isn't best way anymore. We used to do it with laquer and not think anything of it but now you have to do alot of sprayouts and testing to make sure the color is repeatable.
It kinda looks like he doesn't have room and that's why he wanted to do the shell and pieces seperate?
I give a shop credit that is going to give an estimate to finish it up. Estimates for this are tough because you don't know what your getting into. Time and material is the only way I'll roll anymore. Hard to keep your quality up when your eating an estimate. You'll just end up with something slammed together to get it out so you can move forward and make a living again.
I understand you are a shop owner and defending this guy, but first off he uses Glasruit paint on his Porsches, and that was our agreement as unprofessional as it was. He had no concept on how big this car was, until I brought the frame and fenders to his shop. Every car I have done has the entire car painted at the same time, in parts. That keeps the paint colour consistent and no darker, lighter panel issues. Then once fully dried, it is assembled in the shop, that is part of a restoration. As for the bill and not giving a quote, I get the not wanting to loose money crap, but a ball park quote or tell me from day one that it is over your head and your shop is too small, but don't kick me in the family jewels in late October with no chance of finding a shop until spring. That is not professional. There is no defence for a horses rear, that's what he is. END!!!
Last edited by maddoctor; March 1st, 2021 at 05:32 PM.
Reason: Spell correct
I didn't think I was defending him. Just looking in from a 2nd possible view.
Your right depending on the color with painting the whole thing. Either do the jambs, assembly, and paint or paint in pieces and assemble. Light metallics must be done with the jambs and assembled to make sure it matches. Darker colors it's needed.
Good luck as your heading into a possible bad scenario of the process. If the next guy doesn't get it right then you might get soured with the car. I've seen it several times over the years.
The work looks good . 50 K for the work that was done seems high or very well paid. I have never heard of anyone shimming body mount bushings like others have also commented on this practice . One thing I will point out is if you want to save money, have the entire body media blasted and put into epoxy primer that includes the the underside of the body. The last thing you want to do is pay a primadonna any time towards striping paint. I don't know if this included the frame restoration? The reason I ask is you don't need a top shelf restoration shop prepping and painting the frame.
Good luck with the rest of the build hope you find a top shelf shop to continue the work.
Last edited by Bernhard; March 6th, 2021 at 11:32 PM.
The shop did the body in epoxy primer, then all the final sanding was completed after that. The entire shell was done, then the underside had the seamsealer applied. The frame was done at a different shop.
As I stated in my posts earlier the body man was very good, spot welded all the panels, then lead work over the welds. No bondo. Very light skim coat to take out low areas. His problem was he did not want to assemble the entire body after paint.
I think the Guild is going to do the paint and assembly, they do have some time in April.
Thanks for the comments.
The shop did the body in epoxy primer, then all the final sanding was completed after that. The entire shell was done, then the underside had the seamsealer applied. The frame was done at a different shop.
As I stated in my posts earlier the body man was very good, spot welded all the panels, then lead work over the welds. No bondo. Very light skim coat to take out low areas. His problem was he did not want to assemble the entire body after paint.
I think the Guild is going to do the paint and assembly, they do have some time in April.
Thanks for the comments.
Bernhard wrote:
He was very well paid for the work performed. The Guild looks like a top shelf shop looking forward to seeing it completed,
As someone that has been taught and done lead work, I appreciate the skill and originality of the repair. The problem with lead is it does not play nice with modern paint.
I hope your body guy knows away to stop the reaction with the modern paint systems. There are top shelf shops on the west coast that want the old lead melted out, or they will not guarantee their paint work.
It's possible that a new lead formula does not react, like the original lead formula or they treat it differently to seal or neutralize to prevent the reaction.
I would ask the Guild and the original body guy if they have had issues. I'm not saying lead work can't still be done it's just that I have seen the reaction on many high end builds. It shows up at the sail panel where the roof and quarter meet also the windshield pillar and roof joint.
Good luck with the rest of the build.
Last edited by Bernhard; March 7th, 2021 at 08:52 AM.
Finally, I have a body shop that has an opening to paint my car. It is under the ownership of a third generation body/paint shop family, so the lineage is there and I have seen the work this man has performed. He wants it May 3rd and figures it will be complete near the end of May, and he is not charging an arm and a leg, besides I already paid both arms and both legs at the first shop!!! As long as Ontario's covid lockdown doesn't mess things up, I should be driving this in June or July. The paint that was purchased from the first shop will not be used as this shop only uses PPG paints and clears and the willow gold is one of PPG's coded colours. I still would have liked Glasuit by BASF but this guy says he can get similar results from PPG. I have gone on to read plenty of other forums, (Corvette, Nova, Mustang Chrysler, and even Ferrari), and all reviews say it is quality paint and clear. If anyone here has used PPG products I would love to have your comments, good or bad.
Thanks, and stay safe.
Vince.
I have used PPG primers & paint and there is a good chance I will be using PPG on my current build. The key is in the application! You can have the best paint system and it can go sideways if not applied correctly.
If they can deliver consistent results and are comfortable as in know the product well that is what you want in a paint shop. Every paint lays down slightly differently and to know how to work with the paint system is a big part in getting consistent results. Glasurit is a top shelf product with a top shelf price. Good luck with the rest of the build and hope you can enjoy the car this year still.
I just received a phone call today from the body shop that is doing the paint. He wanted to confirm the spot for my car and he said he can't wait to get it in his shop, he is a gear head too. He loves the look of my car and says the willow gold will look some.
Yes, thanks for the link. It does look orig,. I posted that with some buffing the gold will come out more, but that does look like the orig colour. Thanks again for the heads up.
Vince.
Ok now we're on a roll. The car went into the paint shop on Monday, the shop started working on it on Tuesday. Pics to come. The shop owner is down to earth and willing to do things my way. He has no interest keeping my project longer than required, but he will not rush either. I saw the Alfa Romeo that my buddy brought him and it is flawless. I hope that he can work his magic with my car. He lives in the same town as I do even though his shop is 45 minutes away so meetings are easy to arrange. I have June, July, August and September to look forward to.
Take care and all the best to all the Moms.
Vince
Well my car is about to be reborn. Unfortunately the gentleman that was working on my car had covid and was laid up for 3 weeks so it pushed progress back a bit but we are on track now and it will be a relief to get it back just in time for summer. I have a couple of pics here with the fender line chrome on and the fenders and doors primed and sanded. The painter will have a paint card for me to ok on Friday when i do the final walk around to ok his work. It has been a bumpy road but I never lost interest of faith in the build, I know a couple of buddies that were not as fortunate. I will keep posting the pics as I get them.
Everyone take care and we are almost out of this thing so lets all stay safe.
Vince
not much, but I have been assured it will be completed soon. I'm just a bit too busy to go check it out. Family, work etc. But I am going to see it next week if all works out.
Thank you for the interest, really after the first shop experience, I don't want to push this guy too much. Sad but I guess I am at his mercy in some way.
Last edited by maddoctor; July 22nd, 2021 at 04:31 PM.
The trunk lid was a mess. Whoever owned it before me put a wing on it and then it was removed, the holes in the lid were filled with bondo so bad it was oozing out and looked like huge night crawlers hanging on the inside. The bottom edge was done also, I bought a new one from TPP, fit great no need to touch it, bolted up and just adjusted the position and WHAM it was perfect. It amazed the body man. As for new progress, I think all body shops have the same blood running through their veins, one car in the shop is good two is better, three is great. I was told May 3rd bring it in and May 30th you will have it back, well it is now almost August and I still have not got a drop of willow gold on that new sheet metal. The shop owners original workers were not up to the task so he has had to bring in "OLD CAR EXPERTS" to do the work, (line up the body panels and such). All I can say it had better turn out fing great. I guess my two year goal was a good bet, but if all things being normal, I could have had it in less than one year.
Oh well, I know what shops not to use for my next project. I'm looking at a 86-88 g body with a Caddy Northstar.
Last edited by maddoctor; July 22nd, 2021 at 04:42 PM.
The trunk lid was a mess. Whoever owned it before me put a wing on it and then it was removed, the holes in the lid were filled with bondo so bad it was oozing out and looked like huge night crawlers hanging on the inside. The bottom edge was done also, I bought a new one from TPP, fit great no need to touch it, bolted up and just adjusted the position and WHAM it was perfect. It amazed the body man. As for new progress, I think all body shops have the same blood running through their veins, one car in the shop is good two is better, three is great. I was told May 3rd bring it in and May 30th you will have it back, well it is now almost August and I still have not got a drop of willow gold on that new sheet metal. The shop owners original workers were not up to the task so he has had to bring in "OLD CAR EXPERTS" to do the work, (line up the body panels and such). All I can say it had better turn out fing great. I guess my two year goal was a good bet, but if all things being normal, I could have had it in less than one year.
Oh well, I know what shops not to use for my next project. I'm looking at a 86-88 g body with a Caddy Northstar.
Today I went to see the progress on the paint. Looks good, very happy. Colour match was bang on. Here are some pics. Inside of trunk. Inside of door. Hood hinge edge of fender.
November 5th, 2020, 04:51 PM
