455Olds

Hoping you very knowledgeable guys on here can help me decode my cowl tag.

ST 70 34477E 58 BD
TR 947 19 19 PNT
I can't make out the last line, maybe 99C ? I'll attach a picture tonight when I get home.

Thanks!
Chris

GAOldsman

70 = 1970
34477 = 442 Sports Coupe (post coupe)
E = Linden, New Jersey Fisher Body Plant
58 = this should be a six digit number for the Fisher Body unit number may be 000058?
947 = Ivory in color themed interior with bench seat
19 19 = Ebony Black lower and upper body color (no vinyl roof covering)
99C = Chances are that is 09C which would mean 3rd week (C) of September (09) of 1969 begin assembly date

455Olds

Okay, I just discovered what could be a major issue... The title I used to register the vehicle has the VIN 34470Exxxxxx

Was I misled? I purchased the car from a member on here a few months ago and I assumed everything to be legit. The car is a black 1970 post coupe 442, but there's evidence of a few repaints and this car had a rough life. Did I get taken for a ride by a CO member?? Help me figure this out please, guys!

Chris

455Olds

Picture added to my post above.

Starting to get nervous...

GAOldsman

Why are you saying you were misled? Everything looks legit to me. The Linden plant did things others didn't so 58 on the tag would seem correct and it was the 58th A-body produced for the 1970 year model during the 3rd week of September of 1969.

GAOldsman

Also the Fisher Body unit number will seldom if ever match the Oldsmobile unit number in the VIN. That shows it was the 11091st Oldsmobile produced for the 1970 model year.

ent72olds

If the vin on the dash and the vin on the title match, what are you worried about?

455Olds

I'm sorry, I got confused. I just proved in grand fashion how leery this sale made me. The seller and I did not have a smooth transaction. I was under the impression that the cowl tag would state the VIN in the top line. What an idiot I am. It's a cowl tag, not a VIN tag. I'm still pretty naive when it comes to Oldsmobiles, but I'm trying to learn. Thank you guys for clearing the air. I'll hide under a rock now.

Allan R

Scot, where did you get the VIN sequence? I didn't see it in the post or on the homepage

Exactly.

Sorry to hear that. Usually the questions you brought up are the things you ask before you commit to buy. Don't beat yourself up over it because things worked out ok for you in the end. At least now you know the difference between VIN and Cowl tags.

Diego

All I know is that car ain't the 58th one built.

455Olds

I edited out the VIN sequence after getting a PM from another member warning me about posting the full VIN for the whole world to see.

As for the car, I asked all the right questions, but the seller's attitude planted a seed of doubt in my mind. I let my excitement about the car supersede doing my due diligence, but luckily it all worked out in the end and I'm happy with the car for what it is.

So, what does the 58 signify?

GAOldsman

The 58th A-body Oldsmobile body from the firewall back sequenced by Fisher Body in Linden, NJ to be released and be finished by the Linden, NJ Oldsmobile assembly plant. Linden produced a lot more B-bodies than A-bodies during this time.

Diego

I seriously doubt it's the 58th. For one thing, there's a sequence that's usually done, such as 100001. And the build date is not early enough for the 58th. And the OP admitted he Photoshopped the sequence number.

GAOldsman

Deigo this is not photoshopped



The OP admitted to editing out the last 6 digits of his VIN not the cowl tag unit #. Again Linden didn't shuck out the A-bodies like Lansing did.

455Olds

I did not Photoshop anything. Where does it say anything about photoshopping? I EDITED the TEXT in my post that stated my full VIN number. I replaced the last 6 digits with "xxxxxx". The image I posted of my cowl tag is not doctored at all. What you see is what you get.

GAOldsman

Exactly. As I stated they "churned" out more Delta 88's than the A bodies.

Further proof is here with this build sheet from a 442 dated 06-02 which is June 02, 1970 and it has a Fisher Body number of 02350 and would be toward the very end of 1970 production year which would end around the end of July 1970.

455Olds

Thanks for the information! Is it safe to say, in your opinion, that I have an "early production" 1970 442? Number 58 off the assembly line seems pretty early to me.

joe_padavano

Coming into this late, but the cowl tag is clearly showing the 58th Cutlass BODY built at Linden for the 1970 model year. The date code of 09C shows the third week of Sept, 1969, so this IS an early-build body. Allan edited out the VIN sequence number (which I'll point out is visible to the public by looking through the windshield of the car), so I can't tell how that matches with Linden production rates, but keep in mind that the sequence number started at 100001 for each assembly plant, not for total Oldsmobile production.

GAOldsman

Yes and no. Early in the sense that all 1970 production began in August 1969 and yours was built in late September 1969. However Lansing produced way more A-bodies than the other assembly plants. And also take into consideration that Lansing, Mich., Fremont, Calif., Framingham, Mass. and Linden. N.J. all produced 442s in 1970. I also believe this one may have sat for a bit before the Linden Oldsmobile plant needed it, being a post car as opposed to being a holiday coupe. I also have build sheet photo's of a 442 produced about the same time frame (9/24/69) with a Fisher Body unit # of 00216. It was a 442 convertible and they sold more verts than post cars as well.

Overall I would be pleased to have a more rare, extremely low Fisher Body unit # post car that is in fact a 442.

Diego

Thanks for the clarification.

But why is the body so low when production started the month before?

1970cs

Here is a pic for 1970 SX drop top cowl tag same week at Linden.

Pat

wmachine

Because most of the 1688 442 Sports Coupes were not made there.

Allan R

This is similar to the Freemont production.

Check your facts Joe. I didn't edit anything out, I was the one who asked how Scot knew what it was.

BlackGold

Guys, haven't I seen it before where the Fisher Body tag only shows the last 4 or so digits of the Fisher sequence number? I'm pretty sure that Lansing never did this, but I could swear I've seen it on other tags. When combined with the date code, 4 digits would be enough to positively identify each body. And if they did this, I would also expect them to drop any leading zeros. So body number 58 might be the 58th car, the 10058th car, the 20058th car, etc.

Or am I just making all this up?

Also, what's with some of you saying that the sequence number started over for every body style and model? That's certainly not true for the VINs or Fisher numbers in Lansing. Was it different in Linden?

joe_padavano

Sorry, Allan. I misread your post. I should have read a couple of posts earlier.

Allan R

Fisher Body works didn't start their numbers at 100001 each year like the Production lines did. Let's face it - the 70 - 72 bodies were identical from the cowl back in those years for each respective model, and that was Fisher's role - build the body from the cowl back and install key interior trim to match the build document the related assembly line would work with to finish building the car. Summary: Fisher was responsible to manufacture the bodies and install the interior components/trim - no frame, fenders, drive line, brakes bumpers etc.

Each year the body tags would start at 1 but I've never seen them with place holder O's. The cowl tag Pat added shows body 441 at Linden. Keep in mind that there wasn't one centralized Fisher plant - they were located near/next to the final assembly plants. So Linden had its own Fisher works, so did Lansing, Arlington, Freemont etc. A low body number is not always indicative of the build time, but can be indicative of the number of units each plant contributed to the overall yearly production.