to port or not to port?

[23109 E.O.S.]

i need some advice on porting and polishing ,after doing some research about it i knew it wasnt something i should do my self so i called the local machine shop and was told that i shouldnt have 455 oldsmobile heads(j)ported or polised because he said they were just as good stock.now i had always thought that better airflow was better.is what hes telling me true ? thank. you

[joe_padavano]

Originally Posted by 23109 E.O.S.

i need some advice on porting and polishing ,after doing some research about it i knew it wasnt something i should do my self so i called the local machine shop and was told that i shouldnt have 455 oldsmobile heads(j)ported or polised because he said they were just as good stock.now i had always thought that better airflow was better.is what hes telling me true ? thank. you

What he's telling you is that it's time to find a more knowledgeable shop.

[23109 E.O.S.]

i knew something didnt sound right thanks for the reply

[jensenracing77]

porting will help but if the person does not use a flow bench he may do more harm than good. i like mondello but i don't always agree with him, on this issue i do fully agree with him. read some of mondellos info on oldsmobile heads. he won't steer you wrong. i have seen many people wast big money on porting and had no gain or even negative gain because they used a shop that did not know what they were doing.

[joe_padavano]

Originally Posted by jensenracing77

porting will help but if the person does not use a flow bench he may do more harm than good. i like mondello but i don't always agree with him, on this issue i do fully agree with him. read some of mondellos info on oldsmobile heads. he won't steer you wrong. i have seen many people wast big money on porting and had no gain or even negative gain because they used a shop that did not know what they were doing.

There is no question that Joe Mondello is a porting master. Just be aware that he is no longer associated with the company in California that bears his name.

[Olds64]

Don't bother porting heads if you aren't going to frequent the drag strip. Find yourself a set of C or Ga heads and you will be fine. The Js are more restrictive than others but flow fine for a street car.

[jensenracing77]

i did not know he was not part of them. and i would agree that you can make very nice engines with stock porting.

[88 coupe]

Originally Posted by joe_padavano

........ Just be aware that he is no longer associated with the company in California that bears his name.

He still owns it, along with several other businesses on the Left Coast.

He can be found at the Mondello Technical School in Crossville, Tennessee.

Norm

[joe_padavano]

Originally Posted by 88 coupe

He still owns it, along with several other businesses on the Left Coast.

I didn't realize that. Does he have any inputs into the day-to-day activities there?

[88 coupe]

No one asked and he did not say.

Norm

[Oldsguy]

I am throwing a wrench into the works here, still on topic at least. I read a long thread over at ROP discussing porting/polishing the heads and on the subject of polishing this came up. Polishing the heads makes for a smoother surface which does not necissarily (sp) make for better air flow. Something about fluid dynamics and all......A few posters on that thread claimed to be engineers and to know what they were saying. I don't recall what the final say was on that, as if there can be with a discussion on the internet. I don't really want to instigate an argument here but know our members won't do so but, just wondering if anyone else heard of this before. For me anyway, I don't worry about it because I don't race and doubt that I could reap the benefits of it even if it is a good thing to do.

[joe_padavano]

Originally Posted by Oldsguy

I am throwing a wrench into the works here, still on topic at least. I read a long thread over at ROP discussing porting/polishing the heads and on the subject of polishing this came up. Polishing the heads makes for a smoother surface which does not necissarily (sp) make for better air flow. Something about fluid dynamics and all......A few posters on that thread claimed to be engineers and to know what they were saying. I don't recall what the final say was on that, as if there can be with a discussion on the internet. I don't really want to instigate an argument here but know our members won't do so but, just wondering if anyone else heard of this before. For me anyway, I don't worry about it because I don't race and doubt that I could reap the benefits of it even if it is a good thing to do.

All I can say is that my aerospace engineering degree has taught me that subsonic airflow is definitely NOT intuitive and very difficult to predict without full CFD modeling. Porting without a flow bench is iffy at best and it's easy to make the airflow worse instead of better. I think it's generally been demonstrated that removing the A.I.R. bumps is helpful, but beyond that I would hesitate to eyeball any porting work.

[Eddie Hansen]

Originally Posted by Oldsguy

I don't really want to instigate an argument here but know our members won't do so but, just wondering if anyone else heard of this before.

Yes, I have. In regards to polishing I heard you polish the exhaust but not the intake the rougher finish on the intake helps with the air and fuel mixing. I also have the mondello book and it shows basic porting etc but do we really need that on the street? If so perhaps grab a set of aluminum heads, weren't there ports designed by Mondello?

I think in this day and age (for street vehicles) to run a vehicle everyday or regularly we really need to lower the compression, perhaps retard the ignition to factory settings etc and generally can not whoop on our vehicles the way we did in the 70's LOL.. for racing or guys who run there cars occasionally on the street or with additives fine, but for stop light bandits? hmmmmm I think I will match the ports, but that'll be about it, I have a set of c heads and a 69 455 that will be going in my cutty.
I kinda agree with Joe, who to get to do it? and is he equipped? I am having a hard enough time finding a guy I trust to rebuild oldsmobiles LOL...

[88 coupe]

Originally Posted by Oldsguy

........ Polishing the heads makes for a smoother surface which does not necessarily make for better air flow ........

Shiny chambers and piston tops tend to keep some of the heat inside the chambers. Not much help for a "street" car.

Basic bowl cleanup, and a 4 angle valve job, will deliver the most bang for the buck.

Originally Posted by Eddie Hansen

........ weren't there ports designed by Mondello? ........

No. He was involved in the early stages, but the R & D was done by an Edelbrock engineer.

Originally Posted by Eddie Hansen

........ my cutty ........

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cutty

Originally Posted by Eddie Hansen

........ who to get to do it? ........

Depends on your goal and your budget.

Norm

[Eddie Hansen]

Originally Posted by 88 coupe

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cutty

Norm

Ohhhhh Lawdy I had no Idea!!!


geez who can keep up with all this.....


well the next time that ol' bat down the road asks me if i am interested in her 62 cutty I NOW know exactly what she means!!! DAT WENCH!!

[joe_padavano]

Originally Posted by Eddie Hansen

well the next time that ol' bat down the road asks me if i am interested in her 62 cutty I NOW know exactly what she means!!! DAT WENCH!!

Thanks. You make Mt. Dew come out my nose...

[tim72]

I checked into porting by mondello, doing it myself etc. What I decide to do was buy a set of Edellbrock aluminum heads. The story does not end there because the heads need to be gone through buy a profesional to make sure there lapped correctly etc. I found out the hard way with three rebuilds that I had done buy somebody who I was recomended too. Will start with the distributor oiling plug missing on the first one. Thats another story. Buy the time you port I found it was less expensive to go aluminum. I still have my original heads and intake. The increase in HP is pretty significant. I am running 500hp at 10.5 to 1 compresion and 530ftlbs torque. It makes power at about 5200 rpm which is well in range of where I expect to shift. The added benefit of aluminum heads is you can run 94 octane. Nice talking to a guy in Windsor On. You are just across the river.

tim72

[Warhead]

Go to the bottom of page 2 and give this man a call.
Smitty! He is in Ohio, so he's close to you.

http://72.22.90.30/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=44670
http://72.22.90.30/phpBB2/viewtopic....234&highlight=

BTW his CNC edelbrock's flow 325/214 @ .600 lift.
MORE if you have more lift.
BTW your shop just does not want to deal with it.
Jim in Phx.