That rumbling V8 sound
January 6th, 2009, 03:37 PM
#1
Englishman
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: London UK
Posts: 243
That rumbling V8 sound
I need to look at other ways to create the ideal "rumble". Custom headers aren't available for my delta 88 and it already has the dual pipe manifold fitted.
The sound currently is OK but could definitely be better. What's the best way to beef it up, Cherry Bombs?
The sound currently is OK but could definitely be better. What's the best way to beef it up, Cherry Bombs?
January 6th, 2009, 05:23 PM
#2
ZATBAD 72
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 65
I don't know that they make a kit for that car, but I can tell you that I just installed a Flowmaster American Thunder system on my 72 Cutlass and it sounds fantastic - PN 17119. If there is no kit, a set of 40 series Flowmasters would certainly give it some attitude. I installed mine to the stock manifolds and it works great.
January 6th, 2009, 05:45 PM
#3
Registered Luser
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: LI,NY
Posts: 3,783
Cherry Bombs, flowmasters, magnaflows pretty much any good muffler will not only improve sound but also performance. Just find a good custom exhaust shop that can mandrel bend up some maybe if your car is a BB 2.5" inch or whatever the metric equivelent is, have them make a good block off for the crossoverpipe on the right side manifold, an H or X pipe and you'll be good to go. And don't forget to post some pics when done. Also, be sure to tell the shop to use stainless clamps as the clamps become very ugly very quickly.
January 7th, 2009, 04:03 AM
#4
Oldsdruid
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southside Vajenya
Posts: 10,284
http://www.sweet-thunder.com/chamber..._starfire.html
Put these at the front, and a set of resonators at the back like the factory did, and you will have a TRUE Oldsmobile performance exhaust sound duplicating the 1964-65 Starfire chambered exhaust. It will have a low rumble at idle and growl under acceleration.
I don't think I'd put Flowmaster 40s on a Delta. Might be a little TOO barky. DynoMax and Magnaflow are very good options.
Put these at the front, and a set of resonators at the back like the factory did, and you will have a TRUE Oldsmobile performance exhaust sound duplicating the 1964-65 Starfire chambered exhaust. It will have a low rumble at idle and growl under acceleration.
I don't think I'd put Flowmaster 40s on a Delta. Might be a little TOO barky. DynoMax and Magnaflow are very good options.
January 7th, 2009, 04:34 AM
#5
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Edmond, OK
Posts: 15,862
have them make a good block off for the crossoverpipe on the right side manifold
January 7th, 2009, 05:07 AM
#6
Seasoned beater pilot.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,468
Cherry bombs and purple hornies always sound the best to me. They are restrictive though. I had some american thunders, and some dynomax turbos, but they both had that tin can sound blended in with the motor sound. Kind of like talking into a bucket.it's your voice...but not how you imagined hearing it.
I like the chaotic buzzing that glass packs add.
I like the chaotic buzzing that glass packs add.
January 7th, 2009, 05:30 AM
#7
Trying to remember member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,112
http://www.sweet-thunder.com/chamber..._starfire.html
Put these at the front, and a set of resonators at the back like the factory did, and you will have a TRUE Oldsmobile performance exhaust sound duplicating the 1964-65 Starfire chambered exhaust. It will have a low rumble at idle and growl under acceleration.
Put these at the front, and a set of resonators at the back like the factory did, and you will have a TRUE Oldsmobile performance exhaust sound duplicating the 1964-65 Starfire chambered exhaust. It will have a low rumble at idle and growl under acceleration.
January 7th, 2009, 06:05 AM
#8
Oldsdruid
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southside Vajenya
Posts: 10,284
Finding the 1964 rear resonators was fairly easy. I looked for the fronts for over 20 years before finding NOS GM pieces. You can find them aftermarket sometimes; InParCo exhaust made replacements and I think Arvin.
January 7th, 2009, 11:49 AM
#9
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Location: Paw Paw,IL 61353
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Heres my F-85 with stock 1970 98 455,stock manifolds and cherry Bombs. I just made my own exhaust out of a couple new pc of 2-1/4 and some old bent pc. Just blocked the crossoverand ran my own duals. I think it cost me about $60 to make it all myself. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaKrLlfTiBY
Ill try and get a video of my new mufflers (purple hornies) i like it better. LOUD!
Ill try and get a video of my new mufflers (purple hornies) i like it better. LOUD!
Last edited by f-85; January 7th, 2009 at 11:52 AM.
January 7th, 2009, 06:12 PM
#10
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ohio
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http://www.sweet-thunder.com/chamber..._starfire.html
Put these at the front, and a set of resonators at the back like the factory did, and you will have a TRUE Oldsmobile performance exhaust sound duplicating the 1964-65 Starfire chambered exhaust.
Put these at the front, and a set of resonators at the back like the factory did, and you will have a TRUE Oldsmobile performance exhaust sound duplicating the 1964-65 Starfire chambered exhaust.
January 8th, 2009, 04:12 AM
#11
Oldsdruid
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southside Vajenya
Posts: 10,284
Early production 65's had them. Seems like it was the first 5237 of them had them. I'd have to dig a little further to make sure. Mid year change; one of them cost-saving things.
Matter of fact one of my front resonators is actually the 65 part #. 64 had a curved outlet spout where 65 did not. They are otherwise identical.
Matter of fact one of my front resonators is actually the 65 part #. 64 had a curved outlet spout where 65 did not. They are otherwise identical.
Last edited by rocketraider; January 8th, 2009 at 04:16 AM.
January 8th, 2009, 04:43 AM
#12
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Location: Ohio
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Early production 65's had them. Seems like it was the first 5237 of them had them. I'd have to dig a little further to make sure. Mid year change; one of them cost-saving things.
Matter of fact one of my front resonators is actually the 65 part #. 64 had a curved outlet spout where 65 did not. They are otherwise identical.
Matter of fact one of my front resonators is actually the 65 part #. 64 had a curved outlet spout where 65 did not. They are otherwise identical.
The Product Information Manual for '65 shows the mufflers right from the beginning with no print revisions indicating a change.
January 8th, 2009, 11:47 AM
#13
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January 8th, 2009, 06:56 PM
#14
Oldsdruid
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southside Vajenya
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November 1964 Service Guild addresses part of the change.
"EXHAUST SYSTEM 1965 Starfire:
INFORMATION- The left side of the dual exhaust system presently has a chambered pipe and two resonators. The right side has one exhaust pipe, one muffler and one resonator. This was an engineering change made in late August. Service Manual and Parts Book show the chambered pipe on both sides which is now incorrect."
They don't give any reason for the engineering change, though I expect it was a cost-saving move to allow a common part for all B cars with dual exhaust. Though with all the special stuff Starfire had at the rear, looks like a moot point. Probably left the lower restriction pipe in place on LH since pipe diameter was smaller than RH- which is another anomaly only the Oldsmobile engineer who spec'd it knows the reason why.
In the Sept 1964 printing of the 1965 CSM, Figure 3-146 "52 through 86 series exhaust" shows "chambered pipe on 66 series" for both sides. Figure 3-148 shows the Starfire rear resonator and outlet port detail and clearly shows the smaller front resonators in place, along with the Starfire-only brace between the headpipes.
The LH front resonator was still in the parts system at least thru January 1974, listed as Grp 3.702, p/n 388067, 65 S/Fire LH resonator (front). Cost $19.10. I paid close to $80 for one five years ago. You don't want to know what I paid for the 1964 RH.
The 1965 LH chambered pipe was also still in the parts system at that time. Grp 3.609, p/n 391421, 65 S/Fire Pipe LH w/flange (chambered) and note #6 1965 Starfire 1st type- used on first 5426 jobs with resonator.
Grp 3.609 p/n 387323 65 DE except F85, J88 or 98 Pipe LH less flange and note #7 1965 Starfire 2nd type- used after 1st 5426 jobs with muffler (see Nov 64 Ser Guild).
So if you want chambered exhaust on your 1965 Starfire, I see nothing to keep you from installing it.
"EXHAUST SYSTEM 1965 Starfire:
INFORMATION- The left side of the dual exhaust system presently has a chambered pipe and two resonators. The right side has one exhaust pipe, one muffler and one resonator. This was an engineering change made in late August. Service Manual and Parts Book show the chambered pipe on both sides which is now incorrect."
They don't give any reason for the engineering change, though I expect it was a cost-saving move to allow a common part for all B cars with dual exhaust. Though with all the special stuff Starfire had at the rear, looks like a moot point. Probably left the lower restriction pipe in place on LH since pipe diameter was smaller than RH- which is another anomaly only the Oldsmobile engineer who spec'd it knows the reason why.
In the Sept 1964 printing of the 1965 CSM, Figure 3-146 "52 through 86 series exhaust" shows "chambered pipe on 66 series" for both sides. Figure 3-148 shows the Starfire rear resonator and outlet port detail and clearly shows the smaller front resonators in place, along with the Starfire-only brace between the headpipes.
The LH front resonator was still in the parts system at least thru January 1974, listed as Grp 3.702, p/n 388067, 65 S/Fire LH resonator (front). Cost $19.10. I paid close to $80 for one five years ago. You don't want to know what I paid for the 1964 RH.
The 1965 LH chambered pipe was also still in the parts system at that time. Grp 3.609, p/n 391421, 65 S/Fire Pipe LH w/flange (chambered) and note #6 1965 Starfire 1st type- used on first 5426 jobs with resonator.
Grp 3.609 p/n 387323 65 DE except F85, J88 or 98 Pipe LH less flange and note #7 1965 Starfire 2nd type- used after 1st 5426 jobs with muffler (see Nov 64 Ser Guild).
So if you want chambered exhaust on your 1965 Starfire, I see nothing to keep you from installing it.
January 10th, 2009, 03:56 PM
#15
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,112
November 1964 Service Guild addresses part of the change.
"EXHAUST SYSTEM 1965 Starfire:
INFORMATION- The left side of the dual exhaust system presently has a chambered pipe and two resonators. The right side has one exhaust pipe, one muffler and one resonator. This was an engineering change made in late August. Service Manual and Parts Book show the chambered pipe on both sides which is now incorrect."
They don't give any reason for the engineering change, though I expect it was a cost-saving move to allow a common part for all B cars with dual exhaust. Though with all the special stuff Starfire had at the rear, looks like a moot point. Probably left the lower restriction pipe in place on LH since pipe diameter was smaller than RH- which is another anomaly only the Oldsmobile engineer who spec'd it knows the reason why.
In the Sept 1964 printing of the 1965 CSM, Figure 3-146 "52 through 86 series exhaust" shows "chambered pipe on 66 series" for both sides. Figure 3-148 shows the Starfire rear resonator and outlet port detail and clearly shows the smaller front resonators in place, along with the Starfire-only brace between the headpipes.
The LH front resonator was still in the parts system at least thru January 1974, listed as Grp 3.702, p/n 388067, 65 S/Fire LH resonator (front). Cost $19.10. I paid close to $80 for one five years ago. You don't want to know what I paid for the 1964 RH.
The 1965 LH chambered pipe was also still in the parts system at that time. Grp 3.609, p/n 391421, 65 S/Fire Pipe LH w/flange (chambered) and note #6 1965 Starfire 1st type- used on first 5426 jobs with resonator.
Grp 3.609 p/n 387323 65 DE except F85, J88 or 98 Pipe LH less flange and note #7 1965 Starfire 2nd type- used after 1st 5426 jobs with muffler (see Nov 64 Ser Guild).
So if you want chambered exhaust on your 1965 Starfire, I see nothing to keep you from installing it.
"EXHAUST SYSTEM 1965 Starfire:
INFORMATION- The left side of the dual exhaust system presently has a chambered pipe and two resonators. The right side has one exhaust pipe, one muffler and one resonator. This was an engineering change made in late August. Service Manual and Parts Book show the chambered pipe on both sides which is now incorrect."
They don't give any reason for the engineering change, though I expect it was a cost-saving move to allow a common part for all B cars with dual exhaust. Though with all the special stuff Starfire had at the rear, looks like a moot point. Probably left the lower restriction pipe in place on LH since pipe diameter was smaller than RH- which is another anomaly only the Oldsmobile engineer who spec'd it knows the reason why.
In the Sept 1964 printing of the 1965 CSM, Figure 3-146 "52 through 86 series exhaust" shows "chambered pipe on 66 series" for both sides. Figure 3-148 shows the Starfire rear resonator and outlet port detail and clearly shows the smaller front resonators in place, along with the Starfire-only brace between the headpipes.
The LH front resonator was still in the parts system at least thru January 1974, listed as Grp 3.702, p/n 388067, 65 S/Fire LH resonator (front). Cost $19.10. I paid close to $80 for one five years ago. You don't want to know what I paid for the 1964 RH.
The 1965 LH chambered pipe was also still in the parts system at that time. Grp 3.609, p/n 391421, 65 S/Fire Pipe LH w/flange (chambered) and note #6 1965 Starfire 1st type- used on first 5426 jobs with resonator.
Grp 3.609 p/n 387323 65 DE except F85, J88 or 98 Pipe LH less flange and note #7 1965 Starfire 2nd type- used after 1st 5426 jobs with muffler (see Nov 64 Ser Guild).
So if you want chambered exhaust on your 1965 Starfire, I see nothing to keep you from installing it.
Great info. I found all you mentioned. Armed with that information, I can pretty well "work backwards" with the progression of changes in the '65 PIM (Product Information Manual).
First noting that in '64 the Jetstar 1 shared the same exhaust with the Starfire. But in '65, the Jetstar 1 went straight to the 2 muffler/2 resonator system.
So the August '64 change to the '65 Starfire shows up in the '65 PIM as part numbers 388066 and 386640 "removed", so those must be the right side chambered pipe, and the right side front resonator. Being an August change, I wonder if there were any '65 Starfires that actually had the 2 chambered pipe/4 resonator systems.
Additionally, a 12/19/64 revision shows "6600 parts removed" and "6600 usage added". That resulted in the Starfire losing the left side chambered pipe and left front resonator. This left the '65 Starfire with the same mufflers and front exhaust pipe as the rest of the B-body L-75 and L-77s.
Nice obscure information!
January 10th, 2009, 04:03 PM
#16
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Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,112
Actually, the reason is quite well known. Especially now. Different diameters for different back pressure. Both side don't produce the same pressure. Thus the "X pipes" in today's performance exhausts to equalize the pressure. Olds was just a little ahead of the times with that. Once again.....
January 10th, 2009, 05:08 PM
#17
Oldsdruid
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southside Vajenya
Posts: 10,284
Isn't that part of the fun?
I've never seen one so equipped, but by the time I really became aware of just how special and different Starfires were (around 1973) I'm pretty sure most of them were on at least their first exhaust replacement. People being people, most wouldn't have shelled out the cash for the factory replacement when they could have got a Sears or muffler shop special for half the money. Always amazed me my 1st 64 still had its chambered sections, though the front and rear resonators were long gone.
Agreed. Now to figure a way to preserve it and pass it down before old farts like us die off.
When I took all the stuff to my muffler guy, he says "you know I can put modern mufflers on here cheaper that will sound and perform better."
I said, "Roger..." and he said "Say no more. I know how you like your stuff done!"
When I figured up the cost of the repro chambered pipes, the four resonators, and the pipes and labor I realised I had close to $900 in that car's exhaust. But Roger does excellent work and his Huth pipe bender had all the program cards for the car.
When I bought my Toronado in 1987, it had just had mild steel exhaust put on to pass safety inspection. It always rattled against the body. After a couple years I got tired of it and took the car to him. He pulled out the program cards, bent new aluminized pipe with all the correct flats and clearances, and I have heard no more rattles in over 15 years. He was 20 years old at that time, working in his dad's shop (which he has since taken over).
So the August '64 change to the '65 Starfire shows up in the '65 PIM as part numbers 388066 and 386640 "removed", so those must be the right side chambered pipe, and the right side front resonator. Being an August change, I wonder if there were any '65 Starfires that actually had the 2 chambered pipe/4 resonator systems.
Additionally, a 12/19/64 revision shows "6600 parts removed" and "6600 usage added". That resulted in the Starfire losing the left side chambered pipe and left front resonator. This left the '65 Starfire with the same mufflers and front exhaust pipe as the rest of the B-body L-75 and L-77s.
Nice obscure information!
Nice obscure information!
When I took all the stuff to my muffler guy, he says "you know I can put modern mufflers on here cheaper that will sound and perform better."
I said, "Roger..." and he said "Say no more. I know how you like your stuff done!"
When I figured up the cost of the repro chambered pipes, the four resonators, and the pipes and labor I realised I had close to $900 in that car's exhaust. But Roger does excellent work and his Huth pipe bender had all the program cards for the car.
When I bought my Toronado in 1987, it had just had mild steel exhaust put on to pass safety inspection. It always rattled against the body. After a couple years I got tired of it and took the car to him. He pulled out the program cards, bent new aluminized pipe with all the correct flats and clearances, and I have heard no more rattles in over 15 years. He was 20 years old at that time, working in his dad's shop (which he has since taken over).
January 10th, 2009, 07:29 PM
#18
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sherwood Park, Alberta
Posts: 2,623
I've got Walker Super Turbos with no crossmember. I put this particular exhaust system on the car in 1993. I'd like to try Flowmasters but these are in too good of shape to get rid of.
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January 10th, 2009, 09:57 PM
#19
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Location: Paw Paw,IL 61353
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January 11th, 2009, 09:36 AM
#22
I had the problem of not being to quiet my 425 Olds in a '49 Olds coupe so you could think straight at highway speeds and still have a nice cruising sound. I installed a set of QuickTime servo operated cutouts. They are spendy, but you can toggle just the right amount of exhaust escape to suit your taste.
January 11th, 2009, 11:26 AM
#23
Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Edmond, OK
Posts: 15,862
This is what you need. It will give you that mild, open exhaust manifold sound.
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
April 24th, 2017, 11:32 AM
#24
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 210
November 1964 Service Guild addresses part of the change.
"EXHAUST SYSTEM 1965 Starfire:
INFORMATION- The left side of the dual exhaust system presently has a chambered pipe and two resonators. The right side has one exhaust pipe, one muffler and one resonator. This was an engineering change made in late August. Service Manual and Parts Book show the chambered pipe on both sides which is now incorrect."
They don't give any reason for the engineering change, though I expect it was a cost-saving move to allow a common part for all B cars with dual exhaust. Though with all the special stuff Starfire had at the rear, looks like a moot point. Probably left the lower restriction pipe in place on LH since pipe diameter was smaller than RH- which is another anomaly only the Oldsmobile engineer who spec'd it knows the reason why.
In the Sept 1964 printing of the 1965 CSM, Figure 3-146 "52 through 86 series exhaust" shows "chambered pipe on 66 series" for both sides. Figure 3-148 shows the Starfire rear resonator and outlet port detail and clearly shows the smaller front resonators in place, along with the Starfire-only brace between the headpipes.
The LH front resonator was still in the parts system at least thru January 1974, listed as Grp 3.702, p/n 388067, 65 S/Fire LH resonator (front). Cost $19.10. I paid close to $80 for one five years ago. You don't want to know what I paid for the 1964 RH.
The 1965 LH chambered pipe was also still in the parts system at that time. Grp 3.609, p/n 391421, 65 S/Fire Pipe LH w/flange (chambered) and note #6 1965 Starfire 1st type- used on first 5426 jobs with resonator.
Grp 3.609 p/n 387323 65 DE except F85, J88 or 98 Pipe LH less flange and note #7 1965 Starfire 2nd type- used after 1st 5426 jobs with muffler (see Nov 64 Ser Guild).
So if you want chambered exhaust on your 1965 Starfire, I see nothing to keep you from installing it.
"EXHAUST SYSTEM 1965 Starfire:
INFORMATION- The left side of the dual exhaust system presently has a chambered pipe and two resonators. The right side has one exhaust pipe, one muffler and one resonator. This was an engineering change made in late August. Service Manual and Parts Book show the chambered pipe on both sides which is now incorrect."
They don't give any reason for the engineering change, though I expect it was a cost-saving move to allow a common part for all B cars with dual exhaust. Though with all the special stuff Starfire had at the rear, looks like a moot point. Probably left the lower restriction pipe in place on LH since pipe diameter was smaller than RH- which is another anomaly only the Oldsmobile engineer who spec'd it knows the reason why.
In the Sept 1964 printing of the 1965 CSM, Figure 3-146 "52 through 86 series exhaust" shows "chambered pipe on 66 series" for both sides. Figure 3-148 shows the Starfire rear resonator and outlet port detail and clearly shows the smaller front resonators in place, along with the Starfire-only brace between the headpipes.
The LH front resonator was still in the parts system at least thru January 1974, listed as Grp 3.702, p/n 388067, 65 S/Fire LH resonator (front). Cost $19.10. I paid close to $80 for one five years ago. You don't want to know what I paid for the 1964 RH.
The 1965 LH chambered pipe was also still in the parts system at that time. Grp 3.609, p/n 391421, 65 S/Fire Pipe LH w/flange (chambered) and note #6 1965 Starfire 1st type- used on first 5426 jobs with resonator.
Grp 3.609 p/n 387323 65 DE except F85, J88 or 98 Pipe LH less flange and note #7 1965 Starfire 2nd type- used after 1st 5426 jobs with muffler (see Nov 64 Ser Guild).
So if you want chambered exhaust on your 1965 Starfire, I see nothing to keep you from installing it.
Thanks!
Last edited by hurstoldz; April 24th, 2017 at 11:38 AM. Reason: correction/addition of information requested
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