Big Block vs. Small Block Olds??

[bocoogto]

Why the two listings? All Olds V8's are the same external size like Pontiacs. I couldn't find any discussion about this on the forum. Did I miss something?

[GoldOlds]

Originally Posted by bocoogto

Why the two listings? All Olds V8's are the same external size like Pontiacs. I couldn't find any discussion about this on the forum. Did I miss something?

Although small block vs. big block differences aren't as drastic with Olds as they are with Chevy, they DO have differences. Big block olds have a taller deck height (by about 1.3" I THINK). Therefore, you can't swap cranks, intake manifolds or pistons. Heads CAN be swapped between SBO and BBO, but you'll end up with smaller valves on your big block or bigger combustion chambers (less compression) on your small block. It's not quite like Pontiac, where everything from the 326 to 455 is interchangeable.
Hope this helps,

- GoldOlds

[Olds64]

Plus it makes things easier when posting. IMHO, there is no replacement for displacement. I would still rather run a SBO 307 than a SBC 350.

[J-(Chicago)]

Actually a 455's intake is over an inch wider.

[Oldsguy]

Yes, again due to the taller deck height. With the rotating assembly being like an inverted traingle, the one with the longer sides will have a longer top, hence the wider intake, by about two inches I think.

[joe_padavano]

Originally Posted by bocoogto

Did I miss something?

Yup. These are NOT like Pontiacs. As others have pointed out, the most obvious difference is deck height. The taller deck was required to fit the longer stroke, but main and rod bearings were enlarged as well. Rods are longer. Heads have larger ports. Intake and exhaust manifolds are different. Obviously, pushrods are different. Yes, there's a lot of commonality, such as cams, timing sets, motor mount location, distributors, but they are two different motor families.

[bocoogto]

Pontiac had two deck heights, too. The 301 and 267(?) had much lower decks than other Pontiac V-8's. Very little commonality of parts between these and the common Pontiac V-8's. In 1969/70, there was going to be a 366 Pontiac V-8 with Ram Air V heads. The block for these also was to be lower deck height. A few were built, but never saw installation on the assy. line. Many dealers, however, got complete 400 cu. in. Ram Air V engines on wood skids to sell to customers. I saw one at Wilde Pontiac in Waukesha, Wisconsin in 1970. It's the only factory Pontiac engine I ever saw with a Holley carb on it.

How about the 265 or 267 Olds engines from the early 80's? Were they the same dimensions as the 350 and 307?

[GoldOlds]

Originally Posted by bocoogto

How about the 265 or 267 Olds engines from the early 80's? Were they the same dimensions as the 350 and 307?

You mean the 260? I've never heard of an OLDS 265 or 267. If the 260 is the engine you're asking about, then yes, it shares the same dimensions with the Olds 307-330-350-403. The Olds 260 is a gutless engine, but probably still better than the Chev 267. At least the smallest SBO was somewhat reliable.

- GoldOlds

[88 coupe]

From post #1:

Originally Posted by bocoogto

........ the same external size like Pontiacs ........

from post #7:

Originally Posted by bocoogto

Pontiac had two deck heights ........

But, we are not here to discuss Pontiacs.

Originally Posted by bocoogto

........ Many dealers, however, got complete [engines] on wood skids to sell to customers ........

It was/is not unusual for any parts department to order a "crate" engine for a customer. It has been done by all new car dealers, for as long as there have been car dealers.

Originally Posted by bocoogto

........ Were they the same dimensions as the 350 and 307? ........

260, 307, 330, 350, and 403, all used the same 9.330" deck height.

Norm

[bocoogto]

88Coupe:
Postings show you do like to talk about Chevrolets. Please cut me a little slack on trying to understand Big Block vs. Small Block Oldsmobiles. I'm a Ponitac collector, and can better undersand to similarities to Oldsmobile V-8's. I would rather talk about Oldsmobiles than Chevrolets--wouldn't you prefer Pontiacs or even Buicks than Chevrolets for comparison??

[88 coupe]

Originally Posted by bocoogto

........ you do like to talk about Chevrolets ........

You have me confused with someone else.

Originally Posted by bocoogto

........ I'm a Ponitac collector ........

We could tell that from posts #1 and #7.

Originally Posted by bocoogto

........ and can better undersand to similarities to Oldsmobile V-8's ........

They are both OHV 90° V8 ottocycle engines. Other than that, there are no similarities.

Originally Posted by bocoogto

........ I would rather talk about Oldsmobiles than Chevrolets ........

In that case, I suggest you talk about Oldsmobiles, instead of Chevrolets.

Originally Posted by bocoogto

........ wouldn't you prefer Pontiacs or even Buicks than Chevrolets ........

On an Oldsmobile site? None of the above.

Originally Posted by bocoogto

........ for comparison?

Comparison of the lack of similarities?

Norm

[aliensatemybuick]

I sure hope there is room for talk of Pontiacs on this site. I've been know to frequent the PerformanceYears Pontiac forum, since the rear in my 1965 Jetstar I is actually a Pontiac rear. Some of the window trim from my car (and also the 65-66 Starfires) was shared with the same year Grand Prixs...I ended up getting the trim pieces from someone over there in fact, and also got some useful info on the differential when I had probs with mine. I was up front when I visited there that I was an Olds owner, and they were very helpful. Least we can do is return the courtesy here, and by and far, I think that is what you will find.

[88 coupe]

Originally Posted by aliensatemybuick

I sure hope there is room for talk of Pontiacs on this site ........

No one here, said there is not.

Originally Posted by aliensatemybuick

I've been know to frequent the PerformanceYears Pontiac forum ........

We will not hold that against you, as no one here, has yet complained about my clandestine visits to Chevelles.com, Buick V8.com, Bonneville Club, or my Ford site.

Originally Posted by aliensatemybuick

since the rear in my 1965 Jetstar I is actually a Pontiac rear ........

As is the '57 rear in my Grey Coupe. Manufactured by Pontiac, and used exclusively in 57-64 Pontiac/Olds. For that reason (if, I was compelled to seek information an the internet) either site should be helpful.

Originally Posted by aliensatemybuick

........ Some of the window trim from my car (and also the 65-66 Starfires) was shared with the same year Grand Prixs ........

Many parts are interchangeable between GM divisions and their platforms.

Originally Posted by aliensatemybuick

........ Least we can do is return the courtesy here ........

No one here, has said we should not.

What is your point?

Norm

[aliensatemybuick]

Get help, buddy.

[Mister]

There is a good (free) overview of Oldsmobile V-8 engines on the 442.com web site here: http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/ofeng.htm...964%20-%201990

[Rallye469]

Get help, buddy.

Norm!
In one post you said to talk about Olds rather than Pontiacs...
in the next you say it's OK to talk about them...
huh?
One usually can't argue with your technical acumen, but your
bedside manner is something else.

bocoogto...interesting stuff about the Ponitac engines. Love hearing about
the days when each division had an identity AND separate performance
divisions.
Managing to get things done in the shadow of big brother(chevrolet)
must have lead to some interesting things getting out the back door.

[66olds]

Hey Aliens, nice to see you at this forum.....

66olds...A.K.A. 66,425.......

[aliensatemybuick]

Hey, Dave, nice to "see" you here too.

[88 coupe]

Originally Posted by Rallye469

........ In one post you said to talk about Olds rather than Pontiacs ........

Instead of making random accusations, follow the protocol that has been in place since before Algore invented the internet:

Which post? And what, exactly, did I say?

Originally Posted by Rallye469

........ in the next you say it's OK to talk about them ........

Which post? And what, exactly, did I say?

Originally Posted by Rallye469

........ One usually can't argue with your technical acumen ........

Not a problem. When/if I make a mistake, someone usually shows up to make the necessary correction(s). If it does not happen, any future visitors will be misinformed.

For those of you in Rio Linda, misinformation is a bad thing.

Originally Posted by Rallye469

........ your bedside manner is something else ........

Common knowledge, both here and on several other sites. I take pride in the fact, that no one has ever accused me of being a Diplomat.

What is your point?

Norm

[Rallye469]

Instead of making random accusations, follow the protocol that has been in place since before Algore invented the internet:

Which post? And what, exactly, did I say?

READY???

Originally Posted by 88 coupe
But, we are not here to discuss Pontiacs.

Originally Posted by aliensatemybuick
I sure hope there is room for talk of Pontiacs on this site ........

Originally Posted by 88 coupe
No one here, said there is not.

???
This will wind up in another argument over semantics...
ugh. Forget it...

[Warhead]

I think 88 is just bustin your balls!
Funny stuff.

[88 coupe]

Originally Posted by Rallye469

READY??? ........

Interesting.

CAPs, bold, and multiple ???, at one time.

The "politically correct" version is, that the use of either CAPs or bold font can be perceived as “SHOUTING" and the use of multiple ??? are unnecessary.

In all three cases, I call it: Rude and immature.

As used, the word, itself could easily be taken as elitist, or insulting.

At this time, I choose to interpret these items, as a simple lack of communication.

Originally Posted by Rallye469

........ another argument over semantics ........

Depending on the context, the word “argument”, can be defined as a positive discussion, as it is consistent with the goal of this site.

If everyone were to write exactly what they mean, and everyone read (in context) what is actually there, semantics could not possibly be an issue. Since misunderstandings can happen, they should be recognized as such and dealt with, in a calm/mature manner.

The word can also be applied to a childish pizzing contest.

Contrary to the popular misconception, my choice is always an adult discussion.

Norm

[Rallye469]

Are you a politician?

Doublespeak, avoidance, nebulous reasoning, rhetoric, mud-slinging...

the signs are all there.

Come on people, all together now... '88 in '08 !!!

[88 coupe]

Originally Posted by Rallye469

Are you a politician? ........

No. Simply attempting to make a point, in a mature manner.

It is a given, that not everyone will grasp the concept of accurate communication, and that most will not even make an attempt to do so.

It is also a given, that you, and they, are not the the only members/visitors who will read this thread.

Norm

[DennisG.]

Originally Posted by Rallye469

Are you a politician?

Doublespeak, avoidance, nebulous reasoning, rhetoric, mud-slinging...

the signs are all there.

Come on people, all together now... '88 in '08 !!!

As Larry the cable guy would say -

Now thats funny, I don`t care who ya are.

[88 coupe]

Originally Posted by Warhead

I think 88 is just bustin your balls! ........

I think you're right.

........Funny stuff.

And I think you're not the only one with that opinion.

Norm

[rrielley]

Don't we have a moderator to weed out the crap postings? It would be nice if the petty little arguments might get deleted and leave the postings that relate to cars. Olds or otherwise...