sx455raidercelticfan

i just read a email from bob peters from sx455.com that says EVERY 70 and 71 cutlass supreme that came with a 455 is a cutlass sx!! i thought you had 2 order the sx package and im pretty sure there were cutlass supremes from the factory with 455's that wernt sx455s, my 80 year old nieghbor has a broke down 70 all original cutlass supreme with a original 455 in it but dosnt have fender brace or cutout rear bumper from what bob just said in the email thats a cutlass sx because it came with 455!! i emailed bob and he just responed that he did send the email but didnt answer my question about all 70 and 71 cutlass supremes with a 455 being a cutlass sx, he nicely told me 2 pay my fee's and reregister with sx455.com and 2 look it up!! DOES THIS SOUND CORRECT 2 YOU GUYS??? DID CUTLASS SUPREMES COME WITH 455'S THAT WERNT CUTLASS SX

heres a copy of the email

The actual term is not SX455. SX455 is the name of our car club, but many people NOW refer to a Cutlass SX as an SX 455. That's OK with me : ). The correct term that distinguished an SX is the Y-79 Code on the dealer order form and build sheet. The Y-79 Code is what indicates a Cutlass Supreme with the special SX option package.

If a 455 was in a Cutlass SUPREME (notch back or formal roof line) car, it had to be a SX. If you know someone who has a Cutlass SUPREME with a 455 I'd love to hear about it!! There was no such car from the factory.

In 1970 and 1971, you could NOT get a 455 4 speed with a Cutlass Supreme in 1970 or 1971. A Cutlass Supreme with a 350 and a 4-speed YES, but not a 455) Hence, no 4-speed Cutlass SX cars.

In 1972, after the SX was discontinued, you could get a 455 with an automatic or a 4 speed in a Cutlass SUPREME. These cars are very rare.

You could get a Cutlass "S" (same body style as a 442) with a 455 (4 speed or automatic) and The Vista Cruiser wagon was also available with a 455. There are not a lot of Cutlass S cars with the 455, as most people would have ordered the 442 model. I'm sure there are also some 455 4-door Cutlass S cars out there which were used to tow a family boat, etc.

Hope this helps

Bob Peters
SX455 - President
The Olds Cutlass SX Club
Email: BPeters@SX455.com
Web Site: www.SX455.com

wmachine

If that is an exact quote from Bob, I think he mis-spoke and did not proof what he wrote.
I'm reasonably sure he meant *in 1970* if a *4bbl* 455 was in a Cutlass Supreme, it was an SX.

In '71 the 455 was available only in the SX as a 4bbl.
In '72, the 455 was available only as a 4bbl and was available in every F85 V8 model.

sx455raidercelticfan

the email is a exact copy of what was sent 2 me

im kinda shocked blk71sx just told me the exact same thing!! he said the only way 2 get a 455 in a cutlass supreme in 70 or 71 was with the y79 option code!! i just looked at a 70 cutlass with a 455 a month ago for $3000 i passed on it because it didnt have a cutout bumper or fender brace!! i thought only 70 455 4barrels were garenteed sx's! i didnt know all supremes with 455's were sx's

this means any 70 71 supreme with a numbers matchn 455 or 400 trans is a garenteed sx455 WOW!!! who cares about a build sheet than!!!!!! i thought cutlass sx's were special THERE NOT there just a supreme with a 455!! I WILL BE SELLING MINE ASAP!!! and buying a 442

ent72olds

oldsconv

I concur with the above info:

1) No stick shift SX's, only TH400

2) in 70, a 4 barrel 455 meant SX (or 442 obviously)

3) in 70, a 2 barrel 455 could be had in a regular Cutlass without the SX option. I had a high school friend with a factory 70 orange/black interior Cutlass Conv and a 455/2 barrel and it was not an SX (his father bought it new). Nice thing was that even back in 1988 when it got hit hard in the rear, the father had it fixed. He later sold it , but he said it is still on the road today. I have also seen another factory Cutlass Conv (dark green) at a car show in 2007 or so with window sticker and other original documentation and it was a 455, 2 barrel Auto and not an SX.

ent72olds

Was the 2bbl standard on the Y79 and 4bbl optional? According to my 1970 Salesmen's Prices, Equipment, Colors & Trim, Specs book, the 2bbl 455(L33) was the Y79 "sx"package...

SX455 Club

This is the first I heard about a 1970 Cutlass Supreme with a 455 not being an SX. I'd like to see the salesman's guide to confirm this. Can some one send this to me so I can post it on SX455.com Thanks

Darren, I'm sorry that I offended you by asking you to support the SX455 club. Running the web site cost money and it is supported by membership fees.

sx455raidercelticfan

a convertable is a supreme so it looks like if it had a 455 in it its a cutlass sx! i thought they made cutlass supremes with a 455 2barrel that wasnt a sx but i guess i was wrong!!

ent72olds

According to the guide, a 1970 C/S could be ordered with the L33 w/o Y79...the Y79 was standard w/L33, but could have been upgraded to W32....a 1970 C/S COULD NOT have the W32 w/o Y79.....a 1970 C/S COULD have L33 w/o Y79....

I'm sure Kurt can confirm this...if not, I'll try and scan in the page and post.....

sx455raidercelticfan

the 1st ones made were L33 2 barrel motors and later in the year they switched to L31 4barrel motors, im not sure were w32's came in at

Bob no offence taken!! thanks for all the info and help!!!!!!!!

SX455 Club

The 1970 SX Y-79 option was available with the L-33, L-31 and W-32.

1971 SX - L-32 Only

ent72olds

L31......? If they ran out of L33's I guess that would explain that, I know it was an option for Vistas, Deltas & Police Cars.....according to the guide! Doesn't list it for Supreme...I'm only talking 1970...guide could be wrong.....

wmachine

Yes, the L33. Cutlass and Cutlass S V8 models. Ordering information (SPECS booklet, for one) and production figures confirm this.

Slow down now! That is just not true. Maybe the confirmation by the production numbers I've uncovered is new information for all of us. But this just confirms what is shown as "available options" in the sales literature.

I can send that to you, Bob.

W32s were a 4bbl engine that was was the standard 442 engine and was an available option. Though the L31 and L32 were both rated at 365 hp, the L31 was a "lesser" engine performance-wise.

Yes, they stopped using the L33 and substituted the L31. That was announced in Feb, '70. I believe the guide you're looking at is dated Jan. '70, so there will be no reference to the L31 in the A-bodies, except for the wagons.
Production figure show there were 454 L33 that made it into Cutlass Supremes that were not SXs. That is a small number though, and probably helps contribute to the belief they didn't exist.

SX455 Club

OK OK...I was wrong and provided Darren the wrong info via email. I don't remember everything. Running the SX Registry and 455.com site takes a lot of effort. BUT the info regarding the 1970 455ci Cutlass cars is correct on the SX455 web site. If Darren Betz was willing to pay the $12 to access the info on SX455.com he would have found this info.

FROM SX455.com - TECH & SPEC section:

"In 1970, GM lifted its 400ci limit for A-bodied intermediate cars. Oldsmobile took advantage of this by not only increasing the displacement of the standard 442 engine to 455ci, but by also offering a more modest, 320 horsepower high-compression 2-bbl 455ci V-8 (code L-33) on all its mid-size Cutlass models."


FYI: The L33 and L31 were two different engines. The L31 did replace the L33 mid year, but these engines were different all together. This info is also on SX455.com

sx455raidercelticfan

thanks again WMACHINE!!!!!!!!!! again you came threw with the correct info!!!!! i think you should open up a olds hotline!!!

ent72olds

Yes ,you believe correctly, it is dated Jan 1, 1970 and only references the L31 to wagons.....

m455sx

The SX (y-79 performance pack) included 455 motor, 442 suspension,transmission and rear bumper, a regular cutlass w factory 455 motor didn't include the those option unless they were checked off on the option sheet.

wmachine

Not quite. The FE2 442 suspension was optional, and not part of the Y79 SX pkg.
And the M40 auto trans was *required* with, but not part of the SX pkg.
The M40 was *also* required with the 455 even without the SX pg.

m455sx

You make a very good point. I have seen 4 Sx's all with the FE2 suspension( i automaticlly assumed it was included), is there anybody have an SX with out the rear sway bar, please let me know. It sounds like the y-79 pkg. is just a rear bumper cut out?

m455sx

Does anybody know what the price was for the y-79 pkg

wmachine

Almost! A little different situation for '70 and '71. In '70 (prior to Feb, '70), the package included P01 wheel covers, the L33 455, the c/o bumper, and the badges. The L33 already included the dual exhaust, and the M40 was required.
So take a Cutlass Supreme, add the L33, P01, M40 and you have a Y79 minus the emblems and the bumper.
BUT:
The point of the SX was the potential insurance dodge. Take the Cutlass Supreme, add: Y79, W32, FE2, and PX8 tires. Now, aside from the different body style and badges, you had every ounce of performance of a 442, and it would fly under the radar for the higher insurance costs that a 442 would have.

As of Jan '70:
Y79 $10.53
L33 $107.43
P01 $21.06
W32 option $141.13
Y79 total $139.02
Y79 w/W32 total $172.72
And to that add the mandatory M40

Eldomiwok

Wow I like how everybody comes together to figure stuff out leave out the attitude and I guess I'll say animosity and it would be Evan more of a good thing I'm looking to buy a 70 sx hardtop from sac craigslist now I have info to help me. Do any of you know if all 70's had a emblem over the trunk lock? Thanks :-)

m455sx

I believe all Supremes came with a rocket emblem around the truck lock.

Eldomiwok

Ok thank you I didn't realize how old your posts were

m455sx

np

jfb

hey i have a 71 sx and all i can say is that anyone i have met does not understand them and who cares we enjoy and race them and that is our advantage right there.

Rocketbrian

My 71 Sx did not come with the FE2 suspension, therefore no rear sway bar. I added it though and the thicker front bar.

vistacruiser67

The article with the dark colored convertible is from March 1972 Hi Performance Cars Magazine.
Anyone who knows the magazine issue the white convertible is from please let me know.



Al Seger's white 72 Supreme convertible was actually the dark colored 71 SX converted to a 72 Supreme. It was common at the time for 71 Racers to change out to 72 grilles, headlight bezels, and taillights. I've heard Dale Smith actually sent "conversion kits" to the racers. Dick Griffin and AL were looking for a Cutlass convertible and saw this 71 SX drive by. It was owned by the wife of an Olds dealer in the Minneapolis area and she very badly did not want to part with the car but eventually a deal was struck and they had their Cutlass convertible. The car was painted grey and then later white. I do not know the color of the car originally. Al later sold the car as a street car with all 72 changes intact and a 350 in place of the 455. One of only 357 SXs convertibles made in 1971?

vistacruiser67

Although no factory SXs had four speeds this Dodson Lattimore SX converitible had a 4 speed installed in it by the racers who raced it. Im not sure if the automatic was put back in the car. This car was raced in the Annapolis Maryland area. Later owned by Bill Bricker. Then the car disappeared; However, someone told me this car survived and still smells like a new car inside with very low miles on it. Like less than 500 miles!!!

vistacruiser67

Completely unrelated to your issue with these guys, I have posted(in the post above) those two historic SX race cars that I emailed you some time back. Ive since found the two black and white articles of the dark 71 SX and the white SX with 72 parts were the same car. It was common for the 71 race cars to be converted to 72s by merely switching out grilles, bezels, and taillights. Ive read Oldsmobile's Dale Smith actually sent these parts to the racers of the time as needed. The white SX was sold with an incorrect 350 after Al Seger was done racing it. The SX was painted twice. First grey and then to white and gold. Im not sure the color of the car originally nor if the car survived. The color shot of the brown 71 SX Dodson Lattimore was a different SX convertible raced around the Annapolis Maryland area. The racers put a 4 speed in this car. Ive read Dodson Lattimore SX survived and is in pristine condition still smelling new inside with less than 500 miles on it. If true being a race car saved the Dodson and Lattimore car from the ravages of time.

Rocketbrian

Thanks for the great pictures and the interesting tidbits that go with them. I never realized any Sx's were ever raced. The Dodson and Lattimore car has the same color combo as my SX, Sienna with white. The fact it is a survivor is incredible, thanks again.

oldsmobiledave

"Production figure show there were 454 L33 that made it into Cutlass Supremes that were not SXs. That is a small number though, and probably helps contribute to the belief they didn't exist. "

My very first Oldsmobile was one of these 454 cars. It sold new in Thunder Bay Ontario Canada. I took it to Saskatchewan with me & it is still there today just outside of Saskatoon. It has been converted to a 4bbl with the intake & carb from a 1970 442. When I sold it I included & an OAI hood, a 442 rear bumper, sport mirrors & SS 111 rims. The new owner finished the resto by using a pair of one of the last sets NOS fenders that were still in the GM of Canada parts supply back in 1992. He also added a/c, tilt column with a sport steering wheel & front disc brakes from a donor car during the resto. The car looked killer last time I saw it 10 years ago.

The car was paint code 63 (called Copper I think) with black vinyl top & saddle bucket seat & console interior. It had drum brakes & a 2.56 open Type O 12 bolt. It had the steel wheels with wheel covers when new. Only other options I remeber the car having was AM radio, courtesy lights, factory floor mats, rear defrost & the underdash hood release.

This was the first Olds I ever owned. The second was my 1972 W-30. Back then I could only afford one car & the obvious choice was the 4 speed W-30. If I could buy it back I would but the current owner wont ever sell it.

vistacruiser67

Found this information about this SX per Mr. Lattimore:

According to Dale Smith the only one Raced with a 4 speed. Held the IHRA SS/K record 73-74 and NHRA SS/K record in 74 and raced locally in the Md. Va. area mostly. In 1974 it was raced 45 times locally and won 36 eliminators 8 runner ups and 1 3rd. place. It was originally raced by Stuart Mathews and Jack Bender in 71-72 with limited sucess as an automatic. It was then purchased by Lattimore's race partner Bob Dodson in Sept. 72 they redid motor trans and rear and raced it with a stick. It is currently owned by Tom Cable in MD. and is currently being restored to original. It still smells new and shows 143 miles on the odometer.

bigrig12

Wow, this history of the racing SX is tremendous...the stories and photos! I certainly am facinated and captivated by the recollections here. I own a '71 SX myself, so this is really cool for me! Billy

Majic Jack

My 70 SX did not have a rear sway bar. Front bar was only standard 15/16. R&R front with a Grand Prix 1-1/16 and added a 1 inch bar purchased from Muscle Factory to the rear.

wmachine

For anyone interested, we did a comprehensive article on the SX in Wild About Cars.
http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-b...=9980419910184

This was done well after the preceding 2010 posts.

bigrig12

Forgot to mention...my SX has regular suspension. 15/16 front bar and none on the rear. Lots o' other options, just no a/c or FE2 suspension! Seems that was fairly common set-up.

wmachine

If you mean not having the FE2 was common in the SX, you are absolutely correct. Only about 1900 Supremes came with the FE2 in '70. And that includes non-SX Supremes. With 7197 SXs produced, even if every FE2 went into an SX, that would be 26%. So it is quite safe to say the vast majority of the SXs came w/o the FE2.

Seff

Both the FE2 and the 3/4-down-the-side, wide chrome side panels could be had on non-SX cars in '71, yes? I had a parts car that had both, but also the original 350/350 combo and apparently no cutout bumper. It was an export model, with an import tag from Belgium.

1970cs

All 70/71 Supremes HT, soft tops,SX & sedans had the chrome strip down the side.
In 1972 the Supreme only had a chrome rocker panel trim between front and rear wheels.

Pat