Matching numbers and Missing titles...?

[Steve Wike]

As I begin going down the road towards my purchase, does it really matter that the engine and VIN match? I am finding several rolling chassis without engines and trannies in them. I guess it would matter if the car is ever sold in the future. Your thoughts please.

Also, what will happen if a car is puchased, without a title, nothing showing up in title search, but a completed bill of sale? I would guess you can have the missing title "reconstructed" and then a new one issued in the state it will reside...which will be TN. Please advise the issue that might arise with this type of transaction. Thanks!

[joe_padavano]

Originally Posted by Steve Wike

As I begin going down the road towards my purchase, does it really matter that the engine and VIN match? I am finding several rolling chassis without engines and trannies in them. I guess it would matter if the car is ever sold in the future. Your thoughts please.

Also, what will happen if a car is puchased, without a title, nothing showing up in title search, but a completed bill of sale? I would guess you can have the missing title "reconstructed" and then a new one issued in the state it will reside...which will be TN. Please advise the issue that might arise with this type of transaction. Thanks!

Typically, having the original "numbers matching" engine and trans will increase the value of a car. It's up to you if this matters to you or not. If you plan to restore the car completely stock and original, it's important. If you plan to make modifications then you should probably not pay the premium that most people want for the originality.

Automobile title laws vary greatly from state to state. You need to find out what the laws are where you live. I am always nervous, however, when someone claims that they can't get a title for a car that they're trying to sell. Granted, some states don't require (and won't even issue) titles for cars over a certain age, but if the state does require at title for a given car, then every state I know about has a process where the legal owner can obtain a duplicate title from the DMV. Here in Virginia all it takes is $5 and filling out a form. The duplicate is mailed to the legal owner. A seller who claims they lost the title and can't get a duplicate is likely hiding something.

[Steve Wike]

Thanks, Joe...So if the person can't produce a duplicate and/or reconstructed title prior to the time we complete the transaction, then the car could be stolen, etc...or worse?

[GoodOldsGuyDougie]

Matching Motors and Vins is one thing-(no big deal). No Title means Run Run Run.

[justinj]

I'm sure in many cases with these old cars, the current registered owner is long dead, moved or both! If you've already bought the car, there are title services out there that you can pay to obtain a title for you in a state that has laws that are less strict. Do a google search for "classic car title service" and ask around for references.

Numbers matching might be important for a show car. But for a car you're going to drive like hell, who cares? Only you will know. It probably only really matters on the higher end stuff. For example - A friend in Europe has a 1962 Ferrari that's totally mint. It matters that this car is numbers matching! But he won't drive it if there is a cloud anywhere in Switzerland!

I'm sure there are select models of Olds where this is going to make a big difference in the resale price as well.
-Justin

[agtw31]

Originally Posted by justinj

Numbers matching might be important for a show car. But for a car you're going to drive like hell, who cares? Only you will know.
-Justin

that really isnt true,you never know when you need to downsize,and matching numbers is money in the bank,even while being driven.

lots of pure stock guys stash their original motor and thrash on another of the same,just built up for it.
.

non numbers matching cars are everywhere.

dont lower your expectations

unless it's an unbelievable deal,stay away from no title cars.

these cars arent as hard to find as you think they are.

they are everywhere.

nothing is hard to find anymore.

why settle for a basket of bolts,which wont be nothing but a money pit,when the shining crystal ball is right around the corner?

[justinj]

Originally Posted by agtw31

that really isnt true,you never know when you need to downsize,and matching numbers is money in the bank,even while being driven.

My point was, it really depends on the car. If you're spending only a few thousand bucks on a driver, who cares about numbers matching? If you're dropping $15 or $20k, sure, then it's an investment and do your research.

I agree with the comment on titles, though. Big pain in the butt without. But if you bought a junker with no title, you have options.

-Justin

[f-85 rallye]

Here's my story. My Rallye 350 was for sale as a parts car. No paperwork, #'s matching 4 speed car. I traded a car and some cash. She needs a total resto but, I verified the #'s and even found the broadcast card in the car to further prove it's authenticity (wish I had the build sheet).
I'm in NY and went to DMV with my inquiry. They did a search and my car was never reported stolen and had no leins on it.
Now, I only need a pencil tracing of the vin tag and a bill of sale to register the car.
Still haven't done it but, I intend to this summer. I want to get the reggie in my name. I'll let you know if I have any problems.

[MN71W30]

I easily got a title from the DMV on a 65 Chev Biscayne, but it's a Biscayne, not a 442 or GTO.
It is a buyers market out there if you got a few bucks to spend. I agree with AGTW31 and JustinJ's view points, a #'s matching car will have more interest when it comes time to sell. My Dad always said looking for a car is half the fun because once you get one, you have to work on the piece of $h!t.

[joe_padavano]

Originally Posted by f-85 rallye

Here's my story....

I'm happy you were able to resolve this, but again, this is a state-by-state thing. There are 50 different versions of the law and the only certainty is that NY law will be different from that in other states. Once again, check the laws where you live.

As an example, in MD, it is not only illegal to tamper with a VIN tag, it is also illegal to tamper with a VIN derivative stamping. Legally, you cannot swap motors, transmissions, or frames without paperwork and restamping. Is this law enforced? No, but it can be.

[agtw31]

Originally Posted by f-85 rallye

Here's my story. My Rallye 350 was for sale as a parts car. No paperwork, #'s matching 4 speed car. I traded a car and some cash. She needs a total resto but, I verified the #'s and even found the broadcast card in the car to further prove it's authenticity (wish I had the build sheet).
I'm in NY and went to DMV with my inquiry. They did a search and my car was never reported stolen and had no leins on it.
Now, I only need a pencil tracing of the vin tag and a bill of sale to register the car.
Still haven't done it but, I intend to this summer. I want to get the reggie in my name. I'll let you know if I have any problems.

interesting you mention that.
there is a rallye 350 4 speed car in NJ that's been on ebay several times over the last few months.

seller says car has 89k on the odometer,has a NY title,but the vin is registerred to a 70 cutlass here in Ohio with 40k actual miles,and title was never surrenderred from Ohio.

whoever buys that car better make sure it isnt stolen

[72 cutlass455]

NY will not issue a title on cars over 15 years old. You transfer everything on the registration. Came to Ca and wow what a hassle had to have the vin number verified and of course on the 72 they had been painted over many times. Had to go to C. H. P. for verification.

[agtw31]

that is very interesting.

[justinj]

Strange, I wonder what the law should be. On one hand, you want to make sure people aren't F*ing with the VINs to defraud buyers, and on the other, you have people buying someone's "junk" that's been sitting in a field for 30 years and the guy who lost the title is long dead.

I lost the title on my project for about 6 months. I eventually found it (I managed to hide it from myself) but those six months I cooked up all kinds of ways I could fake it. Glad I found it though!

-JJ

[erik68cutlas]

My brother got a 65 Comet 404 in the early 90's. It had no title as the previous owner bought it from a couple in the early 80's and he never registerd it because he didn't get it put together. He misplaced the paper work and the previous owners moved out of state after selling the car. We went to our county DMV and they had no records and told us to go to the county it was last registerd in. That county had no records and told us to go to the county we went to first. We got a different answer at every turn depending on who you talked to at the DMV and what day it was. We ended up using International Title Service in Las Vegas, Nevada on the recommendation of a friend. It cost $150 and took 2-4 weeks to get back paperwork that allowed us to title it legally. We did a title search first to ensure it wasn't stolen. I own this car now and haven't had any problems with the title. The duplicate title option mentioned previously is a good way to go so long as the person who last registerd it is available to do this. In some states you can go the abandoned vehicle route. I have never done this but I am told that in the state of Colorado you can go this route after the vehicle has been left on your property for 48 hours. My friend is using International title service right now for an original numbers matching 69 Chevelle ss 396 that has sat for 20 plus years.