69-98 DIRE NEED OF HELP

wolfman98 · July 13th, 2009, 11:59 AM

Well I am to the point where I hooked up the electrical the same as it was when I took it all apart. At least that is what I believe. Looking at the wireing schematics I can't see anything out of place. here is the problem. The headlights and signals work just fine but I can't get the horns to work? Also I have the added aggrevation of not having windshield wipers. When I turn them on I can hear the motor click and a little switch that looks like a U bar move but no wipers? They should work without the car running. Something else I can't do since I found that the rad is no good. the core is leaking like a sieve in 2 or 3 spots. I will have to see if I can get it recored. Any ideas on the wiper motor? is it crap or might something be hooked up wrong. Anything electrical is not my strong suit so I have no clue at this point. That's why I was carefull to put it back the same way it was.

2blu442 · July 13th, 2009, 08:01 PM

For the horns, make sure there's a good ground where they bolt to the car. The wipers, do you have the arms under the cowl screen hooked up? Is that where you see the "U" shaped bracket moving? Can you take a picture for us of the bracket that's moving? The 1973 98 parts car I'm picking up soon has a new radiator in it, not sure if it's chinesium yet, I'll have to pull it and look for a brand. If it's a good make and would fit your car it's available. I think I also have a good one from a 1978 Toronado, it's wider than the A-body and the tubes inside look great. John

Yellowstatue · July 13th, 2009, 09:08 PM

If you took the steering column off the steering box then make sure that the ground strap at the rag joint is intact otherwise it will remain quiet in your shop

wolfman98 · July 14th, 2009, 04:49 AM

As far as the horns the wiring for them was in a harness that went to all the lights in front. The only grounds were for the headlights and marker lights. Where would the ground for the horns be? The arms for the wipers are hooked up. When I turn the wipers on all I get is a "click". I took the cover off and looked to see what was "clicking". There is a small U shaped clip that moves up slightly when I turn them on and back down when I turn them off. The motor for the wipers does not seem to do anything? Because I have no rad currently I cannot try to fire her up , so don't know if that would change anything. battery is good and completely charged. In the service manual it says that there is a voltage adjustment screw but I cannot see anything like that. I need to get the horns working as well as the wipers to get a mechanical fitness paper done by a mechanic in order to register it otherwise it won't be on the road. I have done too much work to it to just sit in the garage.

Oldsguy · July 14th, 2009, 05:05 AM

The ground for the horn IS the horn. Each unit should be bolted solidly, the ground is through the mount, back to the battery negative terminal. A picture of the wiper mechanism would sure help out, the clicking sounds like it may be a relay.

wolfman98 · July 14th, 2009, 05:11 AM

I thought it was the horns itself , I will check to make sure that they are grounded. It may have been because they were painted so I will take them off and make sure I have a metal to metal connection. I will post a picture of the wiper motor a little later. When you say "relay" do you mean internal relay?

Oldsguy · July 14th, 2009, 05:19 AM

Yes, I think there is a relay mechanism that operates the motor which is integral to that whole thing. Do you have the motor/washer pump combined set up? That thing is a nightmare.

wolfman98 · July 14th, 2009, 05:51 AM

The washer pump and wiper motor is a single unit

. I will go and get a pic of it soon

wolfman98 · July 14th, 2009, 07:20 AM

Going to try this for the third time. Pics are too big so I will post a link. I am pointing at the little switch. When you look down on it , it appears to look like a square U and from the side it has a piece that comes down and rests on the small plastic circular part. When i turn the wipers on this lifts off the small circular piece and makes the click sound. I tried the top plugin both ways but after looking at pics I took before I removed the pump the yellow wire should be on the right side. That is the way I tried it first. The bottom plug only goes in one way.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wolfman98/

Oldsguy · July 14th, 2009, 07:57 AM

The thing with the reddish colored wires wrapped around it directly below your finger is a relay. The round, white plastic piece is a cam that operates the washer pump. The shaft at the center of the cam runs off the wiper motor itself. If that shaft is rotating then the wiper motor is working. As to why the arms aren't moving, you should look closer at the linkage which is what 2blu442 was suggesting. Good luck.

rocketraider · July 14th, 2009, 08:48 AM

Wolf, if you don't have a factory Chassis Service Manual for the car, get one. It will have color wiring diagrams, working drawings showing component locations, and loads of troubleshooting charts. It also has a separate Windshield Wipers section that details what to look for and how to repair the weird things wipers will do.

But yeah, clean up all the grounding points. Bad grounds cause a great majority of the electrical issues in cars.

wolfman98 · July 14th, 2009, 12:34 PM

Ok to address both of these the cam itself is not spinning so the motor is not working , the clicking noise remains and that metal square "U" that has a piece resting on the cam does move up. I do have a 69 Service Manual and will backtrack on the wiring to make sure everything is correct and grounded. Probably get at it tomorrow. Thanks guys any other ideas are of course welcomed warmly.

2blu442 · July 14th, 2009, 06:32 PM

Bruce, here's a question on the wipers. I'm wondering if the linkage is in a bind, and your hearing the electric motor click as it trys to move, but is unable to. Since you repainted the firewall I'm thinking you had to remove the wiper transmission (if that's the right word, the pieces that go between the motor and the wipers) You might look that over, I don't know if you can overtighten the fasteners that attach to the ball on the motor arm, but that might be a point that could bind. John

wolfman98 · July 15th, 2009, 05:17 AM

hey John , I did take the whole unit out and repainted the firewall. I had to make a new gasket that fits between the motor and firewall. The connection to the wipers is basically a single nut that you undo to pull the connection apart so I don't think it would be binding up but it could be slightly out of alignment. I will check that this morning. Thanks for the ideas

wolfman98 · July 15th, 2009, 07:06 PM

Well I found that I am getting power to the wiper motor and the washer pump.I took off the motor housing but did not see any broken wires or bad connections so I put it back together then took the front plate off then plugged the motor back in and turned on the wipers. I can see where the click is coming from and there is a black plastic relay of some sort where the current from the 3 prong plugin for the motor goes through this and comes out to the wiring that goes to the motor. When it is turned on I can see a small spark inside this unit so I am not sure if it is restricted there or in the wiring to the motor. I wonder if I can take this black plastic cover apart or pull it out far enough to turn it over and see if it is accessable from the backside. good luck to me.

July 13th, 2009, 11:59 AM	#1 (permalink)
wolfman98 Captain of my ship Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Wilmot , Nova Scotia , Canada Posts: 1,301	69-98 DIRE NEED OF HELP Well I am to the point where I hooked up the electrical the same as it was when I took it all apart. At least that is what I believe. Looking at the wireing schematics I can't see anything out of place. here is the problem. The headlights and signals work just fine but I can't get the horns to work? Also I have the added aggrevation of not having windshield wipers. When I turn them on I can hear the motor click and a little switch that looks like a U bar move but no wipers? They should work without the car running. Something else I can't do since I found that the rad is no good. the core is leaking like a sieve in 2 or 3 spots. I will have to see if I can get it recored. Any ideas on the wiper motor? is it crap or might something be hooked up wrong. Anything electrical is not my strong suit so I have no clue at this point. That's why I was carefull to put it back the same way it was.

July 13th, 2009, 08:01 PM	#2 (permalink)
2blu442 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Medford, Oregon Posts: 2,261	For the horns, make sure there's a good ground where they bolt to the car. The wipers, do you have the arms under the cowl screen hooked up? Is that where you see the "U" shaped bracket moving? Can you take a picture for us of the bracket that's moving? The 1973 98 parts car I'm picking up soon has a new radiator in it, not sure if it's chinesium yet, I'll have to pull it and look for a brand. If it's a good make and would fit your car it's available. I think I also have a good one from a 1978 Toronado, it's wider than the A-body and the tubes inside look great. John __________________ 1964 Cutlass Factory 4spd 1965 442 4spd 1967 442 Auto 1967 Cutlass Convertible 1967 Cutlass four door daily driver 1968 442 Auto 1969 442 W30 Auto 1970 442 4spd 1971 Cutlass Flat Top Wagon 1973 Che*vy 3/4 Ton 454/TH400 Tow Vehicle Only the tow vehicle is finished!

July 13th, 2009, 09:08 PM	#3 (permalink)
Yellowstatue Certified Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Too close to Toronto!! Posts: 567	Beep beep If you took the steering column off the steering box then make sure that the ground strap at the rag joint is intact otherwise it will remain quiet in your shop __________________ '57 S88 HC et al; '68 442 M20; '68 442 M21; '68 W30; '68 Vista et al; '80 -'84 Regency et al; '96,'98.'99 Aurora..Ignition ON

July 14th, 2009, 04:49 AM	#4 (permalink)
wolfman98 Captain of my ship Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Wilmot , Nova Scotia , Canada Posts: 1,301	grounds As far as the horns the wiring for them was in a harness that went to all the lights in front. The only grounds were for the headlights and marker lights. Where would the ground for the horns be? The arms for the wipers are hooked up. When I turn the wipers on all I get is a "click". I took the cover off and looked to see what was "clicking". There is a small U shaped clip that moves up slightly when I turn them on and back down when I turn them off. The motor for the wipers does not seem to do anything? Because I have no rad currently I cannot try to fire her up , so don't know if that would change anything. battery is good and completely charged. In the service manual it says that there is a voltage adjustment screw but I cannot see anything like that. I need to get the horns working as well as the wipers to get a mechanical fitness paper done by a mechanic in order to register it otherwise it won't be on the road. I have done too much work to it to just sit in the garage.

July 14th, 2009, 05:05 AM	#5 (permalink)
Oldsguy Hot Rodder at heart Administrator Join Date: May 2004 Location: Lees Summit MO Posts: 5,360	The ground for the horn IS the horn. Each unit should be bolted solidly, the ground is through the mount, back to the battery negative terminal. A picture of the wiper mechanism would sure help out, the clicking sounds like it may be a relay. __________________ Dan '77 Cutlass Supreme '46 2 door "The rocket 455.....it's a sledgehammer approach to a thumbtack world" LuxBlue of HAMB.

July 14th, 2009, 05:11 AM	#6 (permalink)
wolfman98 Captain of my ship Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Wilmot , Nova Scotia , Canada Posts: 1,301	ground I thought it was the horns itself , I will check to make sure that they are grounded. It may have been because they were painted so I will take them off and make sure I have a metal to metal connection. I will post a picture of the wiper motor a little later. When you say "relay" do you mean internal relay?

July 14th, 2009, 05:19 AM	#7 (permalink)
Oldsguy Hot Rodder at heart Administrator Join Date: May 2004 Location: Lees Summit MO Posts: 5,360	Yes, I think there is a relay mechanism that operates the motor which is integral to that whole thing. Do you have the motor/washer pump combined set up? That thing is a nightmare. __________________ Dan '77 Cutlass Supreme '46 2 door "The rocket 455.....it's a sledgehammer approach to a thumbtack world" LuxBlue of HAMB.

July 14th, 2009, 05:51 AM	#8 (permalink)
wolfman98 Captain of my ship Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Wilmot , Nova Scotia , Canada Posts: 1,301	Yes The washer pump and wiper motor is a single unit. I will go and get a pic of it soon

July 14th, 2009, 07:20 AM	#9 (permalink)
wolfman98 Captain of my ship Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Wilmot , Nova Scotia , Canada Posts: 1,301	pics Going to try this for the third time. Pics are too big so I will post a link. I am pointing at the little switch. When you look down on it , it appears to look like a square U and from the side it has a piece that comes down and rests on the small plastic circular part. When i turn the wipers on this lifts off the small circular piece and makes the click sound. I tried the top plugin both ways but after looking at pics I took before I removed the pump the yellow wire should be on the right side. That is the way I tried it first. The bottom plug only goes in one way. http://www.flickr.com/photos/wolfman98/

July 14th, 2009, 07:57 AM	#10 (permalink)
Oldsguy Hot Rodder at heart Administrator Join Date: May 2004 Location: Lees Summit MO Posts: 5,360	The thing with the reddish colored wires wrapped around it directly below your finger is a relay. The round, white plastic piece is a cam that operates the washer pump. The shaft at the center of the cam runs off the wiper motor itself. If that shaft is rotating then the wiper motor is working. As to why the arms aren't moving, you should look closer at the linkage which is what 2blu442 was suggesting. Good luck. __________________ Dan '77 Cutlass Supreme '46 2 door "The rocket 455.....it's a sledgehammer approach to a thumbtack world" LuxBlue of HAMB.

July 14th, 2009, 08:48 AM	#11 (permalink)
rocketraider Oldsdruid Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Danville Vajenya, the Last Capital of Dixie Posts: 1,214	Wolf, if you don't have a factory Chassis Service Manual for the car, get one. It will have color wiring diagrams, working drawings showing component locations, and loads of troubleshooting charts. It also has a separate Windshield Wipers section that details what to look for and how to repair the weird things wipers will do. But yeah, clean up all the grounding points. Bad grounds cause a great majority of the electrical issues in cars. __________________ I know absolutely nothing about Oldsmobiles. Just ask the owner of Oldspower.com

July 14th, 2009, 12:34 PM	#12 (permalink)
wolfman98 Captain of my ship Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Wilmot , Nova Scotia , Canada Posts: 1,301	manual Ok to address both of these the cam itself is not spinning so the motor is not working , the clicking noise remains and that metal square "U" that has a piece resting on the cam does move up. I do have a 69 Service Manual and will backtrack on the wiring to make sure everything is correct and grounded. Probably get at it tomorrow. Thanks guys any other ideas are of course welcomed warmly.

July 14th, 2009, 06:32 PM	#13 (permalink)
2blu442 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Medford, Oregon Posts: 2,261	Bruce, here's a question on the wipers. I'm wondering if the linkage is in a bind, and your hearing the electric motor click as it trys to move, but is unable to. Since you repainted the firewall I'm thinking you had to remove the wiper transmission (if that's the right word, the pieces that go between the motor and the wipers) You might look that over, I don't know if you can overtighten the fasteners that attach to the ball on the motor arm, but that might be a point that could bind. John __________________ 1964 Cutlass Factory 4spd 1965 442 4spd 1967 442 Auto 1967 Cutlass Convertible 1967 Cutlass four door daily driver 1968 442 Auto 1969 442 W30 Auto 1970 442 4spd 1971 Cutlass Flat Top Wagon 1973 Che*vy 3/4 Ton 454/TH400 Tow Vehicle Only the tow vehicle is finished!

July 15th, 2009, 05:17 AM	#14 (permalink)
wolfman98 Captain of my ship Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Wilmot , Nova Scotia , Canada Posts: 1,301	connection hey John , I did take the whole unit out and repainted the firewall. I had to make a new gasket that fits between the motor and firewall. The connection to the wipers is basically a single nut that you undo to pull the connection apart so I don't think it would be binding up but it could be slightly out of alignment. I will check that this morning. Thanks for the ideas

July 15th, 2009, 07:06 PM	#15 (permalink)
wolfman98 Captain of my ship Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Wilmot , Nova Scotia , Canada Posts: 1,301	no luck yet Well I found that I am getting power to the wiper motor and the washer pump.I took off the motor housing but did not see any broken wires or bad connections so I put it back together then took the front plate off then plugged the motor back in and turned on the wipers. I can see where the click is coming from and there is a black plastic relay of some sort where the current from the 3 prong plugin for the motor goes through this and comes out to the wiring that goes to the motor. When it is turned on I can see a small spark inside this unit so I am not sure if it is restricted there or in the wiring to the motor. I wonder if I can take this black plastic cover apart or pull it out far enough to turn it over and see if it is accessable from the backside. good luck to me.

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