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Rustoleum should be fine. I used it on the various rearends on my cars dating back to the first swap in 1982 and it has always held up well and looked good. One of my many rear axles has been sitting out behind the garage for 10 years in the Arizona sun and its Rustoleum paint job still looks good.
Yep, a big block :-)...Hasn't run for over a decade so I'll be pulling the heads and pan to give it a good checking over. If my luck holds up with this car, it will be ready to run after a cleaning.
Haven't decided on the 400 yet, but I will probably go with it and keep the drivetrain together. I'm told a 350 with a shiftkit can handle a 455 and that was my original plan. I didn't know I had the 400 in the car until last Sunday. Did I mention console shift?
I was stoning the ring gear and carrier this morning when I noticed the flange has a raised area all around it. It's a tiny bit higher where the flange meets the carrier housing and it appears to be machined, not worn. This is a used 3 series carrier. After all this work I'm tempted to buy a new carrier instead of hedging my bets but I'm already dipping into savings
And the raised area is slightly higher on one side. The highest side appears to be .002" and the low side is .001" if I can trust my HF caliper.
Is this going to throw my pattern off and hence, cause me trouble?
Put the posi unit in the housing, and check it for run-out with your dial indicator before you start. You should ok.
Aha, excellent idea. Thanks Joe.
After talking with Copper, I marked the high area with an X (on top of the housing) and then ran my stone around the flange until it felt consistent, applying more pressure as I approached the X and backing off as I moved away from the X. It feels more consistent and the ring gear sits nice and flat.
Rustoleum should be fine. I used it on the various rearends on my cars dating back to the first swap in 1982 and it has always held up well and looked good. One of my many rear axles has been sitting out behind the garage for 10 years in the Arizona sun and its Rustoleum paint job still looks good.
mac you did the same thing we did at the machine shop. We would have these 12x12 stones on handles and we would stone the back of the gear and the backing plate on which it was set up to be cut on. we had to do this 3 times between roughing , finish cutting and testing.
And the raised area is slightly higher on one side. The highest side appears to be .002" and the low side is .001" if I can trust my HF caliper.
Is this going to throw my pattern off and hence, cause me trouble?
What happens is you will have more backlash on one side, than the other. It will not affect the pattern to an extent. However, that is why one should check the case for run out first, and in the event there is too much run out, then, the surface can be machined. I m thinking the max. run out is .002.
What type or brand ring and pinion are you installing?
.
I look to have .002" runout. But it could be more, my dial indicator and stand are kind of crappy.
I'm going to contact the seller and see if he will give me a good price/trade-in on a new unit. It's been a year since my purchase so I'm not hopeful.
Before you check run out check the back lash at 4 points if its within .002 then its all good. Before i go trough the hassle of all that i always check the back lash at 4 points. Oil will help a little but it will suck to handle them all slick i always install them dry as its a no movement part.
Before you check run out check the back lash at 4 points if its within .002 then its all good. Before i go trough the hassle of all that i always check the back lash at 4 points. Oil will help a little but it will suck to handle them all slick i always install them dry as its a no movement part.
So your saying I should bolt and shim everything like I was ready to check the pattern and backlash and go from there?
Honestly, I won't have the time or energy to do this again if the carrier ends up not being good. It also calls into question the condition of the clutches. I'm taking the rest of the weekend away from this job to get some psychological space, let the paint set up good, and think about buying this....
Before you check run out check the back lash at 4 points if its within .002 then its all good. Before i go trough the hassle of all that i always check the back lash at 4 points. Oil will help a little but it will suck to handle them all slick i always install them dry as its a no movement part.
Do you mean within .02 of each reading? Like for instance, .007, .009, .008, .009? Is it supposed to be .006 to .010?
Yes whatever backlash you are going with as it can vary from source and usage but not much. So say it's .008 no more than .002 under or over. But I would not like it tighter . Shoot for the bigger side of things.
Rebooted this morning. Good night's sleep and then cleaned the shop. Feeling better about it all. Maybe later today I can get it together and check the surface and backlash while I have another set of hands to help. It IS Father's day after-all
Question, does the bevel on the original shim face the carrier or the housing? In case I can use them.
Okay, the daughter and I got the carrier in with the original shims and one .014 shim to get to zero preload (at least it felt like zero preload). No ring gear or anything so didn't check backlash but the carrier seems to be "okay". A lot of back and forth on the dial and it danced just under .002" a few times but it IS under .002 (I zeroed the dial at it's lowest point).
If I can talk the wife into taking a sick day tomorrow, wait, I mean if the wife is sick tomorrow I may get it all together and the pattern set.
Is it a bad idea to use an (electric) impact on the pinion nut when crushing the sleeve? I've read a lot of stories of guys using 6 foot breaker bars.
With the impact. Hit it until it turns / crushes. Then start checking and keep bumping it until you get there. I usually do th is with my air impact it's hard to screw up unless you hang on the trigger.
I read that using an impact can "imprint" the rollers on the races due to the instantaneous shock but it's just something I read and have no first hand knowledge of. Not many folks have a six to eight foot breaker bar to crush the sleeve by hand.
The fella at the garage lent me a bunch of tools including the yoke tool that bolts to the yoke to keep it from turning. But I'd still need someone sitting on the axle tube to keep the whole thing from flying away if I bought an eight foot pipe. I wonder if I have something I can practice on. A bolt with a thin bronze bearing or something.
Dude you have a few crush sleeves . if its too tight do it again lol. I know the work sucks but using the impact saves the effort end lol. I will tell you it does not just crush very easy its to the point you will hold the trigger and once the sound of the impact sounds like its working less you know its time to check it and start bumping it.
True, I do have two sleeves. But I actually haven't used my impact for tightening anything yet, just loosening so I don't know what it feels like.
20-25 in/lbs for the pinion preload?
it will take a while to get to that pre load. You just hit it with the impact and once the socket starts to turn bump the trigger. It wont just go in fast. It takes some work and you can actually watch it turn.
The W27 is cool but I don't want to be a poser. Copper, does the W27 cover have a drain plug? I found this on eBay but it's looks cheaply made compared to the OPGI. http://www.ebay.com/itm/4648881557?_...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
No drain plug but if you are handy it can easily be made. I shoot for 19 in/lbs on pre load. Im not sure who told me but im sure it was a trusted source and all the rear ends i have done where set to 19.
I've got preload set, pinion only, between 19-20 right now. Going to install the carrier next.
Note: I made a dummy front bearing out of the old one. I've read online that some folks do that. Without a front bearing (as shown in the DVD) my yoke was mashing against the nose of the case.
UPDATE: So, as disappointed as I am, I cried uncle. For the first time on this project I felt in over my head. I got to the point of shimming the carrier and just couldn't get passed that point. I think my bad elbows were making it harder than it needed to be.
We have a trans shop in Bloomington that's been setting up a few rear ends a week since the early eighties so I took it there. I cleaned, bagged, and tagged all the parts and they seemed to appreciate that.
The owner is going to call me when they are ready to put it together so I can help/watch so I don't feel completely out of the loop. He said the used carrier looked good (which was a real concern for me) and he definitely preferred Copper's used OEM gear set over the new one I bought (Quick Performance? They got good reviews).
So there it is. I'm a little disappointed that I couldn't do it myself but feel much better about the quality of the work being done. Of course I still have to bring it home and get it back in the car. So really, the only thing I'm not doing myself is putting the carrier in the case and shimming it. Or maybe I am while he watches, lol, I'm not sure yet.
Last edited by Macadoo; March 3rd, 2017 at 06:00 AM.
I completely understand how you feel about that. I like doing all my own work but actually setting up gears is still something I haven't done.
I practiced by taking my '68 O-Type 3.23 apart, replacing all bearings/seals, then putting it back together but that didn't entail setting up a new gear set. I still haven't attempted to swap the 2.56 gears in the original 10 bolt for the 3.42 gears I bought nearly 10 years ago, so I say you are way ahead of me in the gear swap department.
I completely understand how you feel about that. I like doing all my own work but actually setting up gears is still something I haven't done.
I practiced by taking my '68 O-Type 3.23 apart, replacing all bearings/seals, then putting it back together but that didn't entail setting up a new gear set. I still haven't attempted to swap the 2.56 gears in the original 10 bolt for the 3.42 gears I bought nearly 10 years ago, so I say you are way ahead of me in the gear swap department.
I didn't think anything would be harder than putting seat covers on my split bench front seat, lol.
I came close to getting this done. Maybe after seeing it done in person I may tackle it again if needed. I swear all the videos out there, including the DVD we were passing around, skipped the actual placing the carrier in with the shims. They were all like...."Okay, I'm going to place the carrier in position with the shims." BLINK "Okay, now with the carrier in place and all shimmed up......" But but but, they didn't show it! Haha!
Anyway, at least this way I won't have my stethoscope out while taking a trip. Then again......
[QUOTE=dalilama;929981]You gave it a great run Mac - I actually learned a lot in this thread. Like not trying to do this myself!
X2, You did an amazing job Mac, I thought about doing mine back when I initially bought my carrier and gears. However it was just a quick thought haha.
It wasn't cheap after I added up the parts, U.S exchange, shipping then the install.
But my wife pays the bills so it didn't hurt that bad LOL.
I would have got the rear tires off and that would have been it, time for a drink and off to the shop it would have went LOL.
I enjoyed every bit of this thread, man, you pulled off more than I would ever have considered doing.
I'll be looking for a pic with two strippes soon, as you know pics are mandatory!!
Cheers
Eric
I would like to thank Copper as he answered all my texts without rolling his eyes (that I could see) and was very straight with his answers.
Also, Joesw31 was very generous with his offers to help. Thanks Joe.
And everyone else that answered questions and gave advice in this thread. Thanks very much.
Hey don't feel bad, having a good shop really helps. I did my 3.42 from 2.56 gear swap in my 7.5". It had been a few years since I set up one and only did one, another 7.5" as an apprentice. Boy was I nervous and the first time out, it worried me what the burning smell was, it was only my tires. So you just get to enjoy that burning smell. I will be doing my 70 Type O myself but I will take my time since the 3.90 gears and good aftermarket posi will cost me $1000. I may get a custom solid pinion spacer made since I have heard too many stories of crush sleeves not crushing. I used one in my 7.5" and liked it. I think that and measuring my pinion depth helped a lot and knowing what proper backlash looks like.
Last edited by olds 307 and 403; June 22nd, 2016 at 06:24 AM.
Hey don't feel bad, having a good shop really helps. I did my 3.42 from 2.56 gear swap in my 7.5". It had been a few years since I set up one and only did one, another 7.5" as an apprentice. Boy was I nervous and the first time out, it worried me what the burning smell was, it was only my tires. So you just get to enjoy that burning smell. I will be doing my 70 Type O myself but I will take my time since the 3.90 gears and good aftermarket posi will cost me $1000. I may get a custom solid pinion spacer made since I have heard too many stories of crush sleeves not crushing. I used one in my 7.5" and liked it. I think that and measuring my pinion depth helped a lot and knowing what proper backlash looks like.
Thanks 307 and good luck with your swap. I didn't realize one can buy solid spacers. That sounds much easier.
Now, to explain to the wife why the car smells like burning rubber
On a side note: I live in the sticks on a blacktop about 4 miles long with two other houses. The kind of place that when a car drives by, you look out the window and say "I wonder who that is." Lol. However, someone has been leaving posi burn out marks on MY road! I need to get out there and mark my territory, lol.
June 17th, 2016, 11:24 PM
I may get it all together and the pattern set.
. So you just get to enjoy that burning smell
