Kevin45

I never really did solve the problem and I mention that in I believe Post #10, but I did update this thread with some picas of the other '64 Cutlass convertible that I just bought about three weeks ago. Instead of answering this thread and making a new thread, I just updated this thread.


I haven't been on for awhile as it's became summer and had other irons in the fire, mainly trying to find someone in this lazy *** county of mine that is willing to build a garage addition. But that's neither here nor there.

Here's my problem that cropped up with the wifes '64 Cutlass. First off, the noise IS NOT in the brakes. The noise is in fact coming from underneath. Plus the car is a drop top, so it makes it easier to hear the four corners. I've never had a torque converter go bad, so if one does, would there be a sound to it?

WHat happens, is if I brake easy or normal, there is no sound at all. If I brake a little hard, there is a metal to metal sound that sound to me like something hitting the flywheel. It's hard to explain sound over the internet, and I don't have anything to record the sound. It's not a grinding sound like a bare brake show against the drum, Nothing like that, but it is more an intermittent sound like something could be hitting the teeth of the flywheel maybe, or possibly something in the trans. THat's what leads me to wonder what a torque converter would sound like if a fin or two were broke. I understand how the fluid works with a torques converter, and all of that, but before owning this Olds, I have been a CH**Y person. I can recreate the sound 100% of the time if I want, or I can drive the car for 2 or 3 hours around town and drive it where it will NEVER make the noise. It only happens under hard braking, and the sound is definitely coming from UNDER the car.

I've looked to see if anything could be possibly swinging under hard braking to see maybe if it would be hitting the yoke of the driveshaft, I've looked everywhere under the hood to see if something could be possibly swinging and hitting the fan blade.

The closest I can explain what it sounds like is when on a newer car, when you park it after a long drive and it is cooling, how the heat shield for the Catalytic Converter will make a tinking sound while cooling, it has that same pitch of sound in the '64 when braking hard, only in rapid succession, and only when braking hard, and never under normal braking conditions.

Any ideas, because this is driving me frickin' nuts.

On a side note....a few of us went to GoodGuys in Columbus, Ohio yesterday. I saw a few Olds there, mostly in the '70's, one '55 four door, and only two '64's. And those two were a Starfire that was rough, and the other was a Jetstar. Not one '64 or '65 Cutlass.

Oldsmaniac

Well just dont brake hard then! ha ha.... hmmm dont really know what to say. You are probably narrowing the noise down more than anyone can here... Perhaps it is a noise as you say heat related from hard braking within a drum.... just a guess. As with some noises you may need to let it get worse before it can be found or you can get lucky and it will go away on its own.

oldcutlass

Possibly a bad ujoint? Is there any vibration or pulsing?

joe_padavano

The first question is, how do you know it isn't the brakes" Second, are these stock drum, retrofitted factory disks, or aftermarket disks?

If you can be completely sure it isn't the brakes, then look at things that are affected by brakes: loose backing plates, loose steering arms on spindles, worn parts in the suspension or steering, etc. In over four decades of working on these cars, I've never heard of a broken vane in a torque converter. There's an easy way to test that, by the way. Accelerate, shift into neutral, then brake hard. If the noise persists, it ISN'T the trans.

CutlassDad

Would the converter try to move back and forth under hard braking if the flexplate was cracked?

joe_padavano

I've had two Oldsmobiles with cracked flexplates in the last forty years. Both times there was a constant tapping noise at idle that sounded like a spun bearing.

droldsmorland

Not being able to use the senses to trouble shoot, here are some common sense ideas to investigate:
Pull the drums and look for lose parts floating around.
Something rolling around in the trans bell housing being flung around by the flywheel...converter bolt!? Pull the inspection cover and have a good look. Inspect the flywheel where it mounts to the crank.
Next somethings loose in the fan, shroud, radiator area. Look for evidence of the fan making contact with something.
Next the exhaust system is too close to the drive shaft. Look for witness marks on the drive shaft. A clamp or pipe could be hitting the shaft weights?
Next idea is something lose rolling around in the body panels or the rockers?
How are the front end A arm bushings? If somethings over-flexing due to worn out bushings that could cause metal to metal contact somewhere with something.
Hows the frame on this car, solid?
First Id rule out everything regarding the brake system per Joe. But pull the flywheel inspection cover now. If somethings in there it will cause carnage.
Please close the loop when you do hopefully find it. We enjoy solved mysteries.

joe_padavano

This is really the key point. There are about a million possible causes for a grinding noise when you brake hard. About 990,000 of them are related to the brakes. Without having the car in front of us (and using your declaration that it ISN'T the brakes), all we can do is shotgun the likely and unlikely causes and send you on a wild goose chase. I would strongly suggest that you perform some basic troubleshooting yourself and post the most specific symptomatic info you can here for more precise diagnosis.

Kevin45

Sorry I haven't been on a while to reply to this, and to be truthful, the car has set most of the summer. I drove it one day to an out of town appointment, and it was fine, although I never slammed the brakes. I've been around cars enough to know what is a brake problem, and I still say it's not something with the brakes. I'm going to wrangle with things this winter when the car is put away. If something breaks between now and then, that may solve the mystery.


The reason I haven't been around or working on the car is the fact that I bought a few machines for the garage, and have been trying to get them up and going. I have a conventional Lagun Mill which is like a Bridgeport, then I did by a Bridgeport CNC mill that I was sort of misled on. But I got it for a decent price, so I been working with it to get certain things straightened out on it. I've also had a few machining jobs that has tied things up as far as time. Plus taking care of our place and helping the neighbor get her place straightened out. Then the big thing is that I've been trying to find someone to build a 28'x30' addition onto the garage, so I actually have room to work on the car. That should be happening soon. Waiting on a refi to go through, then get the addition and a lift to go in the addition. Playing rough all my previous years, losing the use of my left arm, and arthritis, and a bad back limits me, so I have to pay to play.


Doing a little side machining work, hopefully I can get enough coin to find and build up a 455 to drop into the '64. The cars not going anywhere anytime soon, so I have the rest of my life to get it to where I want.


And I DO have to go this week to the local tire shop and get some new meats ordered for it. I've been kicking around about what wheels to get for it, and after a lot of thought, or maybe lack of, going for the TT-II's in polished aluminum. Jumping up from the stock 14's to a set of 15's, and hopefully I can fit a set of 8's and 7's on it. Hard to believe that Summer is already shot, but hopefully get a couple of Cruise-In's on the car in the next month and a half.


AND.....as soon as I find out what the noise is, I will be sure to let everyone know.

oldcutlass

Let us know, we're all curious.

Kevin45

I was reading back through the pages and ran across this old thread of mine, so I'll update. I never did find out what the noise was, and it hasn't done it in a long while now.. As a matter of fact, it's been so long that it hasn't done it that I completely forgot about it until I read this thread.

I have done a few things to the Olds though. A few weeks ago I put all new ball joints, tie rod ends, coil springs, center ling and so on under the car. Part of the vibration I was having was that the front wheel bearings seemed to be loose. So I repacked those, and tightened them up properly.

Then about two weeks ago, I bought another '64 cutlass with a '68-'70 350 /350 combo in it. I started tearing it apart yesterday to get it ready to do some bodywork and paint. I still have to pull the engine and trans in it. The car was originally white, with a white convertible top, and a red interior. Not really sure what color I am going to paint it, or what interior to put in it. The interior will most likely go black, then change out the top to black. That leaves me open for any color exterior.

The floor pans and trunk pans are excellent all except for one spot where the rear side panel is by the backseat. A mouse had made a nest there and most likely kept pissing in that spot and it rusted through. Just an area about the size of a playing card.

The sheet metal is solid all except for the rear wheel openings. I found one at DVAP for the driver side, but I still need to find one for the passenger side. Then just strip the car down to ready it for body work.

The engine runs strong.. I looked at the numbers, and it is either a 310 horse, or a 325 horse 350 depending on the timing according to the charts. I'm going to stick a Performer RPM intake along with a 600cfm Edelbrock carb on it. I'll probably change the cam out also. Other than that, I'm not going to do any work to the engine except new gaskets and seals in it. Then of course paint it up along with painting the trans. And add a set of headers.

This is what it looked like when I bought it and what it looks like now.

oldcutlass

I like it

64Rocket

You won't find any headers for a SBO to fit in a '64. Maybe shorty headers from Headman. They work great on my '68 Cutlass. Thornton manifolds for the 350 engine should work great.
If that noise comes back, might check the trans mount. the drive shaft may be rubbing the floor.

Gene

Cutlass Fan

Love the red interior. I'd keep it that color, just more unique than another black interior. My 65 has a black interior and black roof, but I would prefer a white top. To each there own, thats one of the things that makes this hobby interesting! And BTW my 65 has a vibration too that wheel balancing didn't cure.