phantomlake1

Just recently bought a 1971 Cutlass Supreme from out of State. First vintage car we've owned, as neither of us are "car" people, but wanted a fun car for the summer. The car was advertised to have just over 30,000 miles on it. The interior had some dry rot (we were okay with that) and it needed a little body work although it had a fresh paint job.

We took the car to a show this weekend and a guy came up and talked to us about it. He looked the car over up and down, inside and out. We told him we knew it needed a little work, but were okay with that because the mileage is so low.

He said "I think I have some bad news. I believe the car has many more miles on it". He showed us the lower right corner of the brake pedal was worn, the ignition key was quite warn, the chrome edge on the steering wheel was worn, and the engine and transmission DON'T MATCH!!!

I contacted the seller, and he says he believes the car to have 30,000 original miles. He also has a 1969 Cutlass of his own. He said he's going to talk to the guy he got it from, etc. and will get back to me.

We contacted a Goodyear garage this morning and asked if they would have someone that could look at it, and certify that it was their opinion the mileage reflected on the odometer wasn't accurate. They said their technicians could look at components of the car (brakes, etc) and give their opinion, but would be difficult to certify their thoughts.

Does anyone have other ideas on what else we can do? Are there other more telltale things on the car that would indicate the mileage is more than the odometer shows? It is a 5 digit odometer. I don't believe it to be rolled back, but think it may be 130,000 real miles. There are no oil change stickers or other documentation, and the title for the car exempts mileage reporting because of the age of it.

Would really appreciate any thoughts.

Thanks.

joe_padavano

Worn pedal pads and replaced engine/trans are both good indications of high mileage (so are brand new pedal pads, by the way). There are very, very few 35 year old cars around that have only 30K miles on them. Bottom line is that if you're not a "car person", then get an experienced evaluation before buying.

I see many sellers of cars and parts who are very careful to maintain "plausible deniability" (hey, I'm in the DC area...). Statements like "appears to be NOS" are wishy washy and raise red flags for me. Either the seller stands by his/her description of doesn't.

Jokers69

hows the carpet around the brake, throttle pedals? Are all the headlights the same brand? Wiper blades? What does the air cleaner housing look like? little thing like that will tell alot, but the key and the brake rubber pad are enough for me..

Oldsguy

So, after all is said and done, you probably won't be able to prove mileage fraud but neither could the buyer prove the low mileage, otherwise he would have provided maintenance records with dates from a reputeable service facility to begin with. Unless you paid a very large amount of money for the car, and then that is very subjective anyway, you should just be happy with it and enjoy it. As you said, you are not a car person and it probably won't mean that much whether it had low or high mileage, when it breaks, you will get it fixed. If you have fun driving it and it fulfills some of your expectations then be happy with it. Besides, it's and Olds and for every Olds you see on the road there are fifteen Chevys and 20 Fords. My second Oldsmobile was a 71 Cutlass, very nice cars, I wish I had not sold mine. Of course that is always the story.....

phantomlake1

Thanks for the input guys. Lesson(s) learned. Dan is probably right, we do like the car and if it breaks, we'll fix it. We've got $5500 into it, so it could have been worse. Engine and trans seem strong, plenty of power and goes down the road pretty nice.

Again...thanks.

Jim's rare 80

Hi. No offence people, but in my opinion, the best way to tell the milage on a car is not from the wear on the brake pedal. Not all drivers push on the center of the pedal, and keys get worn out more in your pocket, than they do in a car. The best way to tell is the suspension components. Have your machanic check these: Bushings. Front and rear. 30000 miles on a 71, will show cracking for age. 130000 miles will show cracking, and wear. No cracking or wear, they've been replaced because of wear. Also, ball joints. 30000 miles will have original riveted upper ball joints. 130000 miles will have aftermarket "bolt" in ball joints, or will be showing eccessive wear. phantomlake1, Seeing as you paid around $5000 for a 71 you can drive, I don't think you have too much of an issue, unless you are replacing worn out suspension. I just thought I'd put in my $0.02 for others. Best of luck with your ride. Jim.

Omicron

Didn't GMs from '69 or something onward have a "tamper indicator" to the digits that misalligned them if the odo was rolled backwards? Seems to me I recall something like that, and the factory literature DOES mention the car has "a tamper indicator" for mine, and I have a 1971 CS too.

joe_padavano

I too have read that, but I have personally reset the odometers in several of my personal cars (60s to 80s vintage GMs) with absolutely no problems. I do this when I do a total restoration for my own use - here in Virginia the DMV has a space on the registration to indicate that the odometer doesn't indicate actual mileage. The "tamper indicator" is apparently a set of very thin and fragile plastic shims in between the wheels of the odometer. If you try to force the odometer to a different reading, these shims break, causing the numbers to lose alignment. On the other hand, if you disassemble the speedo head and carefully remove the odometer drum, you can easily reset it to whatever you want and put it back together without breaking the shims.

VWBeamer

IMHO, overall condition is has more to do with value, then milage.

Example, I deal a lot with older VW bugs. recently, I bought a 63 with 40k original miles. but it was junk. The car had been rolled in the 70's and sat outside in a field since then.

I also bought a 58 with well over 100K on it, but was in good shape, being babied and cared for by an loving owner.

Which car is worth more? i know those examples are extreme, but it applies to all cars

Condition always trumps mileage as a factor in figuring a cars value. I wouldn't pay a premium for a low mileage car unless it was well documented.

69SRagtop

Happened to me once ... it was a Subaru ... the seller claimed odometer was correct at 40k. She used one original key which was cracking in the center. After buying the car, I took the key to a locksmith to make a new one ... much of the silver coating had worn off and key looked bronze / copper colored. His estimate was 150k miles based upon the worn key characteristics! Maybe a statement by your locksmith would help your case?

Another possible indicator ... most folks keep more than one key on their keychain. Over the years, the other keys dangle from the ignition switch, swaying too and fro as you drive, abrading surrounding paint areas. This could also be a clue.

Good luck!

69cutlassragtop

The driver side door hinge is a good indicator if the mileage is 50-100k more than advertised. With the door open halfway, lift upward on the outside handle. Significant play indicates high mileage. I bought a car with similar circumstances as yours. Live and learn... but enjoy the ride!

jensenracing77

i agree.

70 cutlass s

On older cars when they got to a 100,000 miles the odometers go back to 0 so when buying an older car don't look at the miles as much as over all condition of the car. Sounds like your car has 130,000 but for a car that age that's not bad. It's the condition that makes the cars worth having.

Olds64

IF you paid about $5000 for your car and it is in decent condition then you should be happy. $5000 is a decent price for many vintage cars in "fair" condition. As stated earlier, just be happy with your car.

joe_padavano

You all do realize that this tread is 2 1/2 years old, right?

Olds64

Yeah, I knew that. I just wanted to make sure "old boy" understood that he got a good deal.

69cutlassragtop

"Just when you thought that thread was dead, we brought it back in."

Olds64

jensenracing77

i did not look at that.