Tire alignment

[Big John 85]

I just installed my new steering parts today.( center-link, inner and outer tie rods, tie rod sleeves and idler arm)

I then made a appointment at a big chain tire shop for an alignment. When the job was "DONE" they called me and I went to pick up my car.
They then told me that they could not finish the job and I would have to come back. It turns out the caster is off and they need to install shims to fix it.

My car pulls to the left more now after the alignemt.

The problem I have is they are going to charge me for the shims and shop time to install them... WTF.... Is that not part of an alignment?????

I called and talked to a friend that works at a dealer and he said that the shims and installation is part of the alignment.

Is this chain shop trying to rip me off or do they really charge extra for this.

[72 cutlass455]

The chain shops all do quick fixes if any thing out of there norm happens they have to order parts. At least they tried and was able to tell what needd to be done.

[Big John 85]

I am on unemployment I don't have the money to pay a shop to do a half ass job and then charge me more to do what they should have in the first place.

It is only a couple of shims why should I need to pay another $100 to have them put in!

[Texascarnut]

Originally Posted by Big John 85

I am on unemployment I don't have the money to pay a shop to do a half ass job and then charge me more to do what they should have in the first place.

It is only a couple of shims why should I need to pay another $100 to have them put in!

Another $100? What the heck are they charging for a routine alignment? I think it might be wise to stay as far away from that shop as you can get.

[Lady72nRob71]

Originally Posted by Big John 85

It turns out the caster is off and they need to install shims to fix it.

Common way to correct it...

Originally Posted by Big John 85

My car pulls to the left more now after the alignemt.

Sounds like they do not know what they are doing and FUBARed it...

Originally Posted by Big John 85

The problem I have is they are going to charge me for the shims and shop time to install them... WTF.... Is that not part of an alignment?????

I called and talked to a friend that works at a dealer and he said that the shims and installation is part of the alignment.

Shimming IS part of the alignment! How are new cars done?

Originally Posted by Big John 85

Is this chain shop trying to rip me off or do they really charge extra for this

Sounds like they are scamming you. Time to kick some booty and file complaints and stuff... Which chain is it?

Originally Posted by Big John 85

This is how I would feel, too, X2! I hate when shops screw something else up (by making the alignment worse) then making up bogus crap and charging you for it! Now 5 bucks or so for shims I can see but 100? screw them. Was this an alignment or just a cheap alignment "check"?

[kartmaster]

Several years back I took my car to a Goodyear shop and got a similar story. They set the toe, then called and said my camber was just slightly out of tolerance, but they were gonna charge a total of $300 to shim all 4 wheels and they "can't guarantee the shims will stay", or I could "set the toe and go for $65" . So no matter what I'm supposed owe 'em $65 for half the job. Gimme a break.

I have no problem paying a fair price for a service. But shouldn't you quote a guy the FULL price for the FULL service?

[Big John 85]

I got the work done at tires plus. The "alignment" cost me $65.99 after tax and the $10.00 off sale.

I called firestone this morning and asked them. They said the same thing that shims and install where extra. The alignment only covers adjustable parts that are on the car when it arrives not adding parts.

If I go to a different shop and have then do the work I will have to pay for the alignment and the shims plus install. =$100-$200.

If I go back to tires plus in the next 30 days the alignment is free but they want another $75-$125 to put in the shims and reset the alignment.

So I'm screwed either way. No mater what I do now I am sure to pay another $100.

I didn't plan on paying $200 for an alignment.

All the little local shops are closed on the weekends so I will have to wait till monday to call them. If they can match the price they will have my business. I would rather pay them than the stupid big guys.

[gearheads78]

Its pretty standard practice to charge extra for anything above std ajustments. Most modern cars have slots and oblong washers and such. Any knocking out tabs, installing aliginment kits ect is extra.

I cheat and just do my own at work Its was pretty funning doing my car. You had me thats learning to use the machine and my tech helping me that has never seen a suspension like mine. There was a little learning curve for us both.

[Texascarnut]

Price matching is not really an issue. What is an issue is the competency of the technician engaged to perform the alignment. An incompetent technician with the best alignment equipment available can screw up an alignment.

Factually, any decent shop should inspect all the components involved on a given car and advise the owner of what is needed before doing anything. We don't always like what we are told because we never want to think we have parts worn beyond serviceability. Which brings up the very serious question of: "Are there other components worn to the point even shimming may not yield satisfactory results in the end?"

I have vehicle sitting on the driveway right now that has exactly that circumstance and is going to require replacement of all ball joints, outer tie rod ends, and control arm bushings before getting to the point of knowing how much shimming may be necessary, if at all. Not a one hour job! The cost is going to be well over $600.00.

[Big John 85]

I would not be so pissed off if they had told me before they did the alignment work.

I could have searched around to get a better deal on the whole thing and not just half.

Now I'm kinda stuck going back there.

[Texascarnut]

Originally Posted by Big John 85

I would not be so pissed off if they had told me before they did the alignment work.

I could have searched around to get a better deal on the whole thing and not just half.

Now I'm kinda stuck going back there.

As a personal opinion I wouldn't return to that shop without having a very serious talk with its manager/owner. The simple fact is their technician(s) should have taken an initial reading on the alignment machine which should have told them right off if the vehicle could be properly aligned without adding shims. They should have also examined the ball joints and tie rods for any apparent wear. Then they should have spoken to you before going any further. Anything far out enough to require shimming beyond what is on the car is also automatically suspect to having other wear factor issues and requires a thorough examination. It may not be possible to bring the car into proper alignment with just shims and you darn sure don't want to be finding that out after some idiot has tried to correct an impossible situation with shims to no avail.

[Big John 85]

The caster was only one degree off.

I just replaced almost everything. I have the ball joints but don't have the right tools to do them right now.

[jensenracing77]

if i were you i would replace the ball joints before you spend any more money with an alignment. if you do the alignment first you will need to do it again later after the ball joint job. the new ball joints can throw the caster and camber off just a little and the caster and camber being off will affect the tow.

[Big John 85]

Ya I'm doing the ball joints before I go back.

[Lady72nRob71]

I can't believe I am hearing all this right. PAying 100+ to put a shim on?
Geez. Glad I heard this now before I ever take my cars to get aligned.
My mom never had to deal withthat when she had her 86's wheels aligned.
I think shims was standard practice BACK THEN. Now they charge more due for "different" alignment methods. I still have a hard time finding a place that will charge me for a 2 wheel alignment on my old RWD cars. Most places want to charge for 4 wheels when they only do two!

I bet if you took some shims to them (available many places) they would still want to charge another 100 for labor. An hour and a half to loosen two nuts, insert shim, and tighten it gorilla tight so the bolt breaks of later when driving? Maybe 25-50 tops, and make them use a torque wrench also.

[Run to Rund]

When a shop takes a car in for work, they should know what is needed, like shims, and accepting the car also means the requirements are accepted.
Overall, we are usually best off buying the Longacre caster/camber tool and doing it ourselves. I use two long wood sticks on wheel rims to measure toe in.

[Allan R]

Originally Posted by Lady72nRob71

I can't believe I am hearing all this right. PAying 100+ to put a shim on?
Geez. Glad I heard this now before I ever take my cars to get aligned.
My mom never had to deal withthat when she had her 86's wheels aligned.
I think shims was standard practice BACK THEN. Now they charge more due for "different" alignment methods. I still have a hard time finding a place that will charge me for a 2 wheel alignment on my old RWD cars. Most places want to charge for 4 wheels when they only do two!

I bet if you took some shims to them (available many places) they would still want to charge another 100 for labor. An hour and a half to loosen two nuts, insert shim, and tighten it gorilla tight so the bolt breaks of later when driving? Maybe 25-50 tops, and make them use a torque wrench also.

I'm with you Rob.
When I had my 98 aligned at a Reputable??? tire store, it needed a 4 wheel alignment. So ok, get it done. Not that bad a bill- came to around 70 bucks, but then I'm good right? Down the road (about 4 months) I need to replace the rear struts (level ride suspension). $1100/side at a dealer? NO way! Took it down to Peter (my mechanic who lives and breaths Olds). He found aftermarkets for $375/side. He had a hell of a time taking out the rear struts because everything was so rusted. In fact he busted a 19 wrench with a snipe trying to undo the bolts. (Lucky for me SnapOn tools have a lifetime warranty) Anyway, long story short he got the new suspension installed. Had to do another 4 wheel alignment. He also told me there's no way that the other shop could have done a 4 wheel alignment with the condition of the rear suspension being what it was. Can you spell RIPPED OFF with out using curse words?

So, Big John
I think everyone has been bit at least once by some repair shops. We all feel your pain about "excessive" pricing for the wheel alignment. I would talk to the mgr of the store with the concerns you and others have listed. Don't think I would ever go back though. Do you know anyone locally who can put you onto a good shop? Heck, it it comes down to shims, go to a local wrecker and pull some to take with you.

My 83 Regency had a heck of a time keeping an alignment. Always thought it might be the weight of the front end. But then I remembered it had been in a pretty bad side hit on the drivers front. It never ran the same after that, no matter how much it was shimmed or adjusted.

[Big John 85]

I have just made a appointment at a local shop. They are going to do a new alignment "WITH SHIMS INCLUDED" for $54.

The guy I talked to said you can't do an alignment on my car without shims.

I am going back to tires plus and asking for a refund on there half ass job.

[Lady72nRob71]

Originally Posted by Big John 85

I have just made a appointment at a local shop. They are going to do a new alignment "WITH SHIMS INCLUDED" for $54.
The guy I talked to said you can't do an alignment on my car without shims.

Good job!
The local (mom & pop) shops often better understand our older cars and know how to align them. This sounds like a shop to maybe trust with other repairs, if they do the job right. I have a good feeling about this place but let us know how it works out.

[Olds64]

That is a bummer the other shop scammed you. If I have my car aligned the shop better check all three alignment angles (caster, toe, and camber). Plus they better bring all 3 to within spec and do a thrust angle alignment instead of a two wheel alignment. It is a bummer that some shops cut corners.

[Big John 85]

I found a website for the shop I'm going to this time and I think my car is in good hands.


http://www.andoverwheelandframe.com/

[Willidog]

When I took my car in for allignment they told me it would be 49 bucks. Then I told them I had just done a frame off with all new front end parts and they told me that since they didn't know how much they would need to shim they would just charge me 65 and be done with it. I agreed and so far it seems they did a pretty good job. It doesn't look like they added any shims but most likely had to take some of them out.

[Olds64]

Most places are too dumb to align the C bodies. They don't know you have to lift the rear of the car to drop the suspension so you can install the alignment heads under the low lip of the fender made for fender skirts.

[Big John 85]

I got a full refund!!!

[Jamesbo]

Good you deserve it.

[Lady72nRob71]

Originally Posted by Big John 85

I got a full refund!!!

Nice to hear you had a happy ending on this... This happy is a bit uncommon!
Thanks for posting your experience so others will be aware at what shops my try to do to them...

[Joeypete]

Glad it all worked out for you.

I just replaced the tie rods on my 86 Custom Cruiser today. It's WAY out of alignment now...I took it for a test drive and I had to turn around and come back (driving about 20 MPG too...lol). Luckily my mechanic is not even 1/4 mile from me so I'll just let him do the alignment.

Sometimes the small shops are the best. I really trust mine, even though they probably charge more for labor.

[Bluevista]

Those shims used to be sitting around in the gutters on every road, along with the dreaded lead wheel weights (those still are). A wheel weight came out of the stratosphere and chipped and slightly dented my GTO's fender a few years back.
Not a car in site and it's trajectory was vertical, had a flaming tail like a meteorite too.


My dad had an old Furd truck with the twin I-beam suspension. The common way to aligh those was with a torch and a 20 pound sledge hammer.

[whosyourdaddy]

Took my '66 98 to the local "gateway", they supposedly aligned the front-end. I had new tires, the right front was wearing on the inside, so I assumed this would fix it...Now a few months later, I happened to notice that my new tire is starting to do the same thing! Any ideas on what I should do? I've not driven it much since the discovery...: (
The local tire man warned me not to go "supercenter" route and to use a local small business man whose also closed on weekends...guess I'll have to wait until my next day off and go for a visit.