rothlane'68

I’m looking at doing a front suspension rebuild on a ’68 442. I've chosen most of my parts, pretty much moog all the way, but I need help sourcing some coil springs to replace my saggy originals. I’m shooting for stock ride height.

Car has a 455 block with cast iron heads and intake, AC, power brakes and steering, and a TH-400. So I guess the closest match for springs would be whatever came on a Hurst/Olds that year.

I’ve run across the following several times on this forum:

> 5390 small block - no AC
> wire diameter = 0.650"
> load height = 11.000"
> load = 1952 pounds
> rate per inch = 336 pounds
> free height = 16.808"
>
> 5382 big block - no AC, small block - AC
> wire diameter = 0.660"
> load height = 11.000"
> load = 2066 pounds
> rate per inch = 360 pounds
> free height = 16.724"
>
> 5400 big block - AC
> wire diameter = 0.660"
> load height = 11.000"
> load = 2167 pounds
> rate per inch = 360 pounds
> free height = 17.004"
>
> 5536 442 small block - AC - heavy duty, 442 big block - no AC - heavy duty
> wire diameter = 0.690"
> load height = 11.000"
> load = 1984 pounds
> rate per inch = 488 pounds
> free height = 15.063"
>
> 5450 small block - AC - heavy duty, big block - no AC - heavy duty, -442 big block - AC - heavy duty
> wire diameter = 0.690"
> load height = 12.000"
> load = 1642 pounds
> rate per inch = 454 pounds
> free height = 15.616”

which would seem to indicate that I need the 5450’s, but websites (summit) list the application as being for a 350 w/ac or a 400 w/ac, which I’ve read are both lighter than the 455 by 60 or so lbs. I also noticed that the loaded height for the 5450’s is an inch higher than most.

I have considered ordering a set from fusick or eaton, which I believe are both custom made, but I’d rather save the $70 or so and order a set of moogs from rock auto.

Can anyone confirm which moog spring I need, or suggest an alternative?

Does anyone know the load and height of factory springs? I have the CSM, but I cant find it referenced anywhere.

On a side note, I don’t see any insulators on the car now, but I’ve noticed they exist from several vendors, should I put some on?

Any and all input is much appreciated!

Fun71

That is the info I posted several times; it's a sub-set of the Moog application catalog (a real book, not an online listing) that was originally posted years ago in reference to a discussion about front springs. I am certain there is a complete application listing but I don't have a catalog to look it up. From what I recall, the 442 cars had the 1" lower load height than the regular Cutlass line.


Well I think wherever you read that an Olds 400 is lighter than an Olds 455 wrong. All BBOs weigh about the same; throw on an aluminum intake and the BBO is now about the same weight as a SBO.

mpolds

Where do you live? I have a few sets of MOOG 5400 Springs that I am lowering my inventory quantity.... can potentially be a score for you (I am in Long Island, N Y)...

RetroRanger

i have the 5450s in the fr of my car now (72 CS). ride is good and firm not wallowy but w 5385s in the back i may swap to the 5536s in fr.

w a stock 350 w AC the car sat exactly level, i want to drop the fr end ~1" thats why i want to swap to the 5536s in fr (similar in rate to the 5540s but ~1" lower install height).

im in the process of putting in a BBO so the spring swap will wait.

the top of the rear spring is where the insulator goes

Fun71

Here's some shots of mine with 5536s up front and the new 245-60-15 wheels all around. Ignore my thumb at the top of the pic.


1971convertible15x7SSIIIb_zps494506da.jpg

1971convertible15x7SSIIIc_zps66f89e96.jpg

J.O.

I was also looking for springs, for my '70 W-31. Moog referred me to http://www.coilsprings.com/ out of KS. They cross referenced the original spring number (lucky to find tag still attached) to come up with spec's needed needed for my FE2 suspension. Also confirmed from pages in the '70 Assembly Manual.

Junkman

I have been dealing with them for a number of years now for coil springs, and they will build you anything that you want. You just tell them what you want to do, and they will engineer it to fit. Heavy duty springs usually lower a car by an inch or so, however, if you want them to build you a heavy duty spring, and make the car sit higher, just tell them. I usually deal with a fellow name Israel, and he is very knowledgeable and accommodating.

rothlane'68

Thanks for all the input!

Sorry I took so long to respond, I wanted to get the springs off the car so I could see if that would shed any light on the situation. Then life intervened, and I just got them off over the weekend.

And, well... the ones I took off were not originals but have 5536 stamped on them, so I assume they're just an old set of Moogs!

So now I'm not sure what to do, I wasn't really satisfied with the ride before, but that might be because the back is raised. The front of the car wallows a bit, and I always felt the car was prone to oversteering, these are the main things I was hoping to correct with the rebuild.

Now I'm not sure what to do. Put the 5536's back in and shoot for the stock ride height I thought I was looking for? Or go for a set of 5450's and have something a bit taller?

Fun71, I really like the stance of your convertible, maybe I'll throw it all back together with new bushings and ball joints, see how it feels, and plan to replace the rears soon...

Fun71

Do you know if the ball joints and control arm bushings are in good shape? And how about the alignment? I had a bad upper control arm bushing and it definitely made the car very "wallowy" as you put it. Bad alignment can have a similar feel. After new bushings and alignment my car is very precise feeling.

rothlane'68

Alignment was pretty bad, I'll post a picture of the wear pattern on one of the front tires later today.

The shape the bushings were in varied a bit, but the rubber in everything was warped, upper balljoints were stiff, steering linkage, which is also being replaced was fairly worn. Keeping the car going down the road in a straight line was a chore.

Everything on the car was at least 12 years old.

I'm looking forward to that precise feeling!