71 Cutlass Ragtop

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251411666114...84.m1423.l2649

halfmoontrail

Looks like it, with a 344 VIN

71 Cutlass Ragtop

Yes, but he says, "344". Where is the VIN?

jstrits

he doesnt seem to have the full vin listed but the partial 344 tells you its a 442 originally and that is in the description.

Allan R

Gee, For a car that's touted as a 'true survivor' this car seems to have very few real survivor parts. New re-chromed bumpers, added OAI hood, new posi carrier and gears, patched floor pans, rebuilt front suspension, one repaint etc it sure doesn't sound like a 'survivor'..I'm calling BS on this being a W30 offering.

Re-gasketed 455? What's the point of doing that? If you've got the engine apart it might as well be rebuilt. Even the front suspension has been rebuilt and clumsily detailed to make it look original, but GM didn't use blue polyurethane grease boots or zinc plated link kits, and the backing plate has been simply painted silver - not even cleaned first.

442's were produced at all the A body Olds factories. What's missing here is the proof this is a Lansing built car, and the W30 emblems. I'd say it's likely a real 442, but no way it's a 442 W30 because they all came from Lansing and had the W25 hood standard. The dual snorkel Air cleaner is not the proper one for a W30 OAI, it was only offered on MT cars IIRC.

FWIW, and this is just my opinion - that is NOT a highly optioned car as it's claimed to be. Only options I see are AM/FM Stereo, U21 rallye pac, dual gate shifter, power brakes, TH400, floor mats and air conditioning. I don't consider the features that should be part of the W30 package to be options if it's claimed to be a W30. Nor do I consider the power top to be an option if it's a vert. Anyway that's my 2¢

71 Cutlass Ragtop

It seemed like a lot of work for a car with 40,000 miles. I asked about the paint and he did respond in the Q&A and said it was repainted. That was after I saw the two stage paint comment in the listing. I then asked on his listing and I called and left a message to see if he would either post a picture of the VIN or text it to me so I could do a little more digging. Still waiting.

Allan R

I agree that 40K miles and 2 owners shouldn't have needed that kind of work. Then again, it depends on how it was stored. Look at the picture of the seat belts in the back seat and that should give you a bit better idea of how well looked after it was.....they look like they have been rode hard and hung up to dry. I'll buy that they are true survivors.

I bet the VIN will come back as 344671R123456, 344671Z123456, or 344671F123456. If it comes back as a Lansing car, it will be a 442, but guaranteed it wouldn't have been born as a W30, especially if those front fenders are 'original sheet metal'. Lansing was the only A body Olds factory that produced the W30 cars.

joe_padavano

While I agree that the ad copy is, ah, optimistic, I'm a little surprised by some of the comments here. Now, maybe he's edited the ad recently, but currently he does not claim that the car is a W-30, only that an allegedly OEM hood was added. He also claims that the floor pans are original and not replaced. One repaint in nearly 35 years is not unreasonable. Naturally it MUST have the incorrect W-30 side stripes...

I'm sure "regasketed" means that the valve cover gaskets were replaced before the engine was resprayed. All in all, the car seems like it's worth every bit of the current $18K bid (with no reserve).

oldcutlass

It looks to be in nice condition and apparently he's not too proud of it pricewise. At that price would make someone a nice car to enjoy. Since he has answered questions perhaps ask him to post the vin# and cowl tag info.

Allan R

Really? Copied straight from his ad:
I'd agree if he hadn't called it a 'true survivor'. from Car Collectors corner: Yes, after re-reading, it does have original floor pans. But, again - copied direct from his ad:
What part of 'survivor' and 'original' are you missing? Heck the brake booster is painted black - obviously to hide brake fluid leak or oxidation, and both inner liners are missing the rubber a frame seals, master cylinder has been replaced too - missing the bleeding bosses and fittings. Gee, on only 40k miles??

The ad is clearly trying to pass this off as a W30 car. Go back and re-read; it's in smaller print in the title. If this car is all original and unmolested, so is mine...



Yes I know this is an ongoing debate about restoration/survivor. IMO this is a nicely upgraded, maintained and repainted car, but is not a true survivor. That is misleading to someone who expects it to retain the exactness of the day it was born. It's just another car for sale looking for big $$$ on the market. Very likely worth the money, as you said. But also a great example of features you periodically point out about originality, knowledge, research and documentation. The seller says he's posted the option codes - where? There's still no VIN listing either. IMO that simply means there's something he doesn't want to divulge.

69ishHoliday

I see a nice car well worth the money, but I'm part of the "if you can touch it, it's real" minority. It looks like it has the OAI hood and fancy air-cleaner bling bling too.

Further,
1. It's got newer modern more durable paint (and looks like a good job).
2. The front and rear end have been dialed-in with new parts.
3. Not much left to do but enjoy it.

ts71442

I talked to the owner yesterday. He owns a mechanic shop in the Chicago area. He did not represent the car as a W-30. He added the ram air hood to the car to improve the appearance. From the conversation, I came away with the opinion that it is an honest 442, not a fully restored car and not an untouched car. He did upgrades and improvements as needed. The price he is looking for seemed reasonable based on the condition and equipment.


If someone is in the Chicago area, please check it out. I may consider purchasing it but I think my timing for funds and space may be off a few months.


TS

71 Cutlass Ragtop

I was confused in the way he was describing the car. I still have a lot to learn about the 442 and W-30 option. I sent him an email asking him for more information and the VIN and he came back with a condescending reply. Needless to say, "No question is a bad question" should not have been included in his listing. Besides all of that I do agree with 69ish that it's a beautiful car!

Allan R

The ad claims it's an OEM OAI but the dual snorkel air cleaner is completely wrong. IIRC they only cam on MT cars.

His ad represents it as a W30 option. It's very likely a 442, but he's represented it in his ad as a 'true survivor' which it's not, and original, which its not. Maybe I'm being picky but there are lots of guys out there who represent a car as something it isn't, just hoping the buyer is naive enough to take their word for it.

That should be as good a heads up as anything. A seller who won't divulge information or treats his potential buyers like that doesn't deserve a second look. Beautiful looking car or not, it's not what its advertised to be. He did well getting 35.8K for it. I wouldn't have paid anywhere near that much for a non W30 CS vert. PT Barnum said it best.

Koda

I was confused and I know a decent bit about 442s and W-30s. He is looking for a sucker who sees the "W-30 opt" in the title, and the "W-30 Hood" and think it's a W-30.

The car is not a survivor, it is a light restoration of a car that was in good shape. It's nicely done. The car is not a W-30, and it does not have "W-30 options" or have a "W-30 hood." The car is a numbers matching 442 convertible with dual gate shifter th-400. It has a W-25 hood, and the air cleaner that went with it, which I believe is properly referred to as the W-25 option air cleaner. W-25 could be, and was, ordered on cars independent of the W-30 package.

If I may speak my opinion on a semantics issue. I call W-30 a package, and W-25 an option. A package is made up of individual options, and options are individual items, or a set of items that go together. Like said above, a true W-30's options do not include items that came in the W-30 package when one is judging if it is highly optioned, because they have to be there already. A power seated, power antennaed, remote mirrored, stereo FMed, cruise controlled, rear defogged, shoulder belted (front and rear please) W-30 is a highly optioned one indeed, but we can't count the 455, the hood, the tach, and all other W-30 components as part of the highly optioned call.

Lastly, I think the price was reasonable. I would have liked it for about 5k less, but it's a fair price.

69ishHoliday

$38,500 was enough money, I commented "worth the money" when it was south of twenty. I think though that there was a lot to like about the vehicle. The one thing that would certainly have kept me from bidding was the "Bid with Confidence! 100% positive feedback!" - (100% of the seller's feedback was as a buyer and you get that simply by paying for what you buy, he had no track record as a seller).

joe_padavano

$38,500 was more that I expected it to sell for. I agree that mid-20s was about right.

Anyone want to bet the car is relisted in a few weeks?

dfire25

x2