'72 442 4 Real !
August 28th, 2013, 07:07 PM
#1
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'72 442 4 Real !
Not mine. He says its real.....no paperwork...says there is no such thing as a fake! Guess he's not 100% right or wrong...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1972-...item1e7ed9135f
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1972-...item1e7ed9135f
August 28th, 2013, 09:19 PM
#4
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Uh, yeah, there is such a thing as a fake and they're usually not that hard to find in many cases.
I'm pretty sure that seller had a V Code awhile back, but I do recognize the Ebay ID as someone who's had a few Oldsmobiles. Maybe his most compelling evidence is the apparently original paint and the fact that the fenders have not been repunched for the 442 emblems.
Paperwork would still be better...
Terry
I'm pretty sure that seller had a V Code awhile back, but I do recognize the Ebay ID as someone who's had a few Oldsmobiles. Maybe his most compelling evidence is the apparently original paint and the fact that the fenders have not been repunched for the 442 emblems.
Paperwork would still be better...
Terry
August 29th, 2013, 07:16 AM
#5
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its a nice looking car - like the hood stripes. looks like it had an aftermarket wing on it at one time. Notice the 72 convertible in front of one of the pics. Looks like a decent start for a fun project
August 29th, 2013, 07:53 AM
#6
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So here's my question, it's probably been reviewed a thousand times. But what are the key points to check to verify if someone has a "real" 1972 4-4-2 (given no lansing build sheets, just broadcast cards)
FE2 suspension package
Front fender braces
W-29 hood (Or OAI I guess)
What else is there apart from emblems and grill?
Technically if a car has all those things, could it be a 4-4-2???
FE2 suspension package
Front fender braces
W-29 hood (Or OAI I guess)
What else is there apart from emblems and grill?
Technically if a car has all those things, could it be a 4-4-2???
August 29th, 2013, 08:29 AM
#7
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So here's my question, it's probably been reviewed a thousand times. But what are the key points to check to verify if someone has a "real" 1972 4-4-2 (given no lansing build sheets, just broadcast cards)
FE2 suspension package
Front fender braces
W-29 hood (Or OAI I guess)
What else is there apart from emblems and grill?
Technically if a car has all those things, could it be a 4-4-2???
FE2 suspension package
Front fender braces
W-29 hood (Or OAI I guess)
What else is there apart from emblems and grill?
Technically if a car has all those things, could it be a 4-4-2???
August 29th, 2013, 08:47 AM
#8
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Thanks for the reply. i'm not sure i understand though.
Are you saying that "technically" i could add all the options. But nothing could "really" verify if i have a real 442 or not?
August 29th, 2013, 09:09 AM
#9
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I was just saying it in a broader sense. Since everything that would make it 442 optioned can be added, then having everything would not prove it came that way.
August 29th, 2013, 09:12 AM
#10
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"The meaning of the 442 is 4-speed 4 barrel carburetor, and dual exhaust. "
My 1968 442 W30 Auto Trans would disagree.
As for the Z-less 1972 and similar, where 442-ness is NOT defined in the VIN, I assert that if all, and I mean ALL, the things that make a 442 out of a Cutlass are in place on the car, then it IS a 442, just as "real" as any other.... it just may not have left the factory in that configuration.
The seller's feedback is ATROCIOUS
90% at best...
Here's a Left Handed Compliment- disguised as a POSITIVE:
"Reached amicable agreement with seller."
That means there was a problem.
He has a LOT feedback for "not as described"
My 1968 442 W30 Auto Trans would disagree.
As for the Z-less 1972 and similar, where 442-ness is NOT defined in the VIN, I assert that if all, and I mean ALL, the things that make a 442 out of a Cutlass are in place on the car, then it IS a 442, just as "real" as any other.... it just may not have left the factory in that configuration.
The seller's feedback is ATROCIOUS
90% at best...
Here's a Left Handed Compliment- disguised as a POSITIVE:
"Reached amicable agreement with seller."
That means there was a problem.
He has a LOT feedback for "not as described"
Last edited by Octania; August 29th, 2013 at 09:21 AM.
August 29th, 2013, 09:14 AM
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August 29th, 2013, 10:30 AM
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August 29th, 2013, 11:11 AM
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As for the Z-less 1972 and similar, where 442-ness is NOT defined in the VIN, I assert that if all, and I mean ALL, the things that make a 442 out of a Cutlass are in place on the car, then it IS a 442, just as "real" as any other.... it just may not have left the factory in that configuration.
August 29th, 2013, 11:37 AM
#15
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However one thing that would give the proof Tony is looking for would be a broadcast card showing W29 or W30 options, and original dealer window sticker showing how the car arrived at the dealership.
Tony - one other thing you should remember? Not ALL 442's were produced at Lansing (although ALL W30's were) and it's very possible to find build sheets from some of the other plants in various locations of the car. A score like that would be one of the documents that would authenticate a 'real 72 442'.
You can certainly add all the items that will make your car look like a 442, but it's up to you to represent it correctly.
August 29th, 2013, 11:56 AM
#16
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I'm just bummed out that the stupid broadcast card that i have only lists bucket seats as an option.
I was thinking of doing the vintage vehicle services thing that GM offers in canada to try to get more info about my car.
I was thinking of doing the vintage vehicle services thing that GM offers in canada to try to get more info about my car.
I agree with this in an overall perspective. 1972 is one of the easiest years to 'clone' into a 442.
However one thing that would give the proof Tony is looking for would be a broadcast card showing W29 or W30 options, and original dealer window sticker showing how the car arrived at the dealership.
Tony - one other thing you should remember? Not ALL 442's were produced at Lansing (although ALL W30's were) and it's very possible to find build sheets from some of the other plants in various locations of the car. A score like that would be one of the documents that would authenticate a 'real 72 442'.
You can certainly add all the items that will make your car look like a 442, but it's up to you to represent it correctly.
However one thing that would give the proof Tony is looking for would be a broadcast card showing W29 or W30 options, and original dealer window sticker showing how the car arrived at the dealership.
Tony - one other thing you should remember? Not ALL 442's were produced at Lansing (although ALL W30's were) and it's very possible to find build sheets from some of the other plants in various locations of the car. A score like that would be one of the documents that would authenticate a 'real 72 442'.
You can certainly add all the items that will make your car look like a 442, but it's up to you to represent it correctly.
August 29th, 2013, 01:57 PM
#17
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The OldsFaqs website makes the statement that there is no such thing as a fake 442 in 1972.
The original 442 grilles were missing, so they were replaced with Cutlass Supreme grilles. After carefully looking this car over I would say that I saw no signs of this car ever being involved in any major accidents. I believe all the body panels to be original to this car. I believe this real 442 has all of its original paint.
DANGER WILL ROBINSON.
August 29th, 2013, 05:31 PM
#18
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The seller information that ALL 442's in 1972 were Cutlass S bodies is also wrong.
Olds facts is never wrong?? Shocker! 
August 29th, 2013, 05:59 PM
#19
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As for the Z-less 1972 and similar, where 442-ness is NOT defined in the VIN, I assert that if all, and I mean ALL, the things that make a 442 out of a Cutlass are in place on the car, then it IS a 442, just as "real" as any other.... it just may not have left the factory in that configuration.
I will respectfully disgaree with that, and go back to the example I put forth last month. (Not trying to be a jerk, just making a point...) I have an original and complete W-31/M21 drivetrain and tags in my garage. If I put that in a '70 Cutlass fastback (I even have the VIN tag), you probably wouldn't let me claim its a "real" W-31. Everything's there - carb, balancer, intake, heads, even the factory camshaft, half moon pistons and rods. Isn't it "real"? It just may not have left the factory in that configuration.
"Real" is just another term like musclecar, original, numbers-matching, survivor, and more that all do us a similar disservice.
For the record, "real" in this context usually does *imply* factory original. But we all can do with more specific and less implied vocabulary.
August 29th, 2013, 06:02 PM
#20
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I admit that I cloned a Chebby like most of them around, and said I would not do it again. That is why my 72 Cutlass sports 442 everything and better, and w-30 stripes and spoiler. But still says Cutlass on the fenders and trunk. It's a Cutlass my way. Not a clone of something it's not. All I see is every Chebby out there is an SS. Doesn't matter year.
Went to a local cruise in last week. Ran across a really nice looking 70 442 Convertible. I looked at it, Nice. Anyways, 342 Vin, 350 auto (duel gate). Owner said it was original 442 etc. I just said nice car and moved on. Maybe he just didn't know.
Went to a local cruise in last week. Ran across a really nice looking 70 442 Convertible. I looked at it, Nice. Anyways, 342 Vin, 350 auto (duel gate). Owner said it was original 442 etc. I just said nice car and moved on. Maybe he just didn't know.
August 29th, 2013, 06:13 PM
#21
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Start with the SPECS booklet, looking under options.
http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-b...aldisplayed=50
Then you can find 442 specifics shown as "W29" in the Assembly Manual:
http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-b...aldisplayed=50
Inspectors Guide, page 27.
http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-b...aldisplayed=50
Eventually, we will have this type of id information compiled and posted in the Tech section.
August 29th, 2013, 08:24 PM
#23
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I thought you had done that already. If all you have is the broadcast card, VVS may be able to help you if the car was originally produced for export to Canada. If the car was a US market vehicle and bought later for import to Canada, you'd be out of luck. From what I understand if you submit the request and fee, it will be refunded if they can't provide the car documentation for your Cutlass.
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