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Old January 27th, 2012, 08:06 AM   #1 (permalink)
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1970 Oldsmobile 442 W-30 Convertible "Factory A/C"

Location: Grand Rapids, MI

VIN: 344670M188960
Miles: 53,811
Offered at $119,900

Color: Matador Red over Black
Engine: 455/370 HP V8
Transmission: Automatic

Just out of a private collection, Hoekstra LTD is pleased to present this very rare, 1970 Oldsmobile 442 W30 Convertible. The W30 package featured a 455 CID engine producing 370 hp and a face ripping 500 ft-lbs or torque. This combined with standard options such as FE2 suspension, deluxe interior, strato bucket seats and custom stripes, The 442 W30 is considered to have the best balance of presentation, performance, ride and handling in its day.

The 442 W30 presented here is no exception to that statement. The car was originally special ordered from Oldsmobile Corporate by a young Oldsmobile automotive engineer who wanted a highly optioned, very fast convertible. He ordered the car in “Nugget Gold” with black stripes, black interior and equipped it with the W30 performance package, Hurst dual gate shifter, Factory air conditioning, FE2 Heavy duty suspension, N47 Vari-ratio power steering, tilt steering column, JL2 power disc brakes, power convertible top, U21 Rocket Rally Pack, W27 Differential, Soft Ray tinted glass, tic toc tach, etc; just about every option available with the exception of power windows, a decision that he would later regret. He took delivery of the car at the Oldsmobile factory in Lansing MI and showed former employer Carlson Oldsmobile, inc. as the delivering dealer. The delivered price of the vehicle including the GM discount was $4606.56 for a car that would have stickered close 6000.00 dollars equipped the way it is. Today, the W30 Convertible comes to us in excellent condition and remains exactly how ordered with the exception of the exterior color now being Matador Red with black stripes. The car remains completely numbers matching still featuring its original motor, transmission and W27 rear differential.

When it comes to collecting and investing in cars, production numbers matter. Only 264 442 W30 Convertibles were produced in 1970, of those, only 126 were optioned with the Hurst Dual Gate shifter and only a handful ever left the factory optioned with Air Conditioning. The W30 convertible offered here is excellent in every way. Mechanically, the car is outstanding featuring a recent freshening of the original motor and transmission, all new poly urethane upgraded bushings in the suspension and steering improve the already excellent ride all Oldsmobile’s offered. Much attention to factory detail was exercised during the restoration as this car presents a near perfect interior, excellent fit and outstanding paint. This car is documented with original registration and original owner history.

See more photos at http://www.grautogallery.com/details...SC&p=50&page=1
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Old January 27th, 2012, 09:23 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Killed with the color change - good luck!!
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Old January 27th, 2012, 09:33 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Agreed, it is a beautiful car. But isint $119000 dollars just a 'little' bit steep?

Perhaps other 70 w-30 owners on this site can chime in.
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Old January 27th, 2012, 09:52 AM   #4 (permalink)
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The car is priced in the ballpark if it is a documented w-30 convertible. Color change, rear spoiler, reproduction w-27 cover are a few red flags on the car. So when a dealer represents a car they are often dealing with many makes and models. Errors in a listing or not understanding the value of documentation with these cars is common. The Olds executive deal also appears to be a sales line although I have not fully investigated this car or its owner history. It looks to be a nice car 442 or w-30 painted red for resale.

Lee 1970 w-30.
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Old January 27th, 2012, 09:55 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leepear View Post
The car is priced in the ballpark if it is a documented w-30 convertible. Color change, rear spoiler, reproduction w-27 cover are a few red flags on the car. So when a dealer represents a car they are often dealing with many makes and models. Errors in a listing or not understanding the value of documentation with these cars is common. The Olds executive deal also appears to be a sales line although I have not fully investigated this car or its owner history. It looks to be a nice car 442 or w-30 painted red for resale.

Lee 1970 w-30.
Good info to know. So if a documented w-30 with papers is worth over 100 large, what's a regular everyday w-30 worth?

Only reason i'm asking is because maybe one day i'll be looking at buying one. Currently i'm in the 72 model year (which i plan on keeping) but i dont think i'd be interested in a true collectors car (with papers etc).
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Old January 27th, 2012, 10:07 AM   #6 (permalink)
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What it appraises at, what it's worth and what someone will pay, are 3 different things!
Lee - you were at B-J and Mecum last week - did anything go that high?

We sold our 'LAST' LS-6 for 85k @ Mecum - 3 yrs ago they were 150k!
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Old January 27th, 2012, 10:38 AM   #7 (permalink)
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A red with on white W30 car just sold at BJ with documentation for $220,000, yes 220k. But the next day a dark blue W30 4 speed convertible supposedly with docs went for 94k. The auto went for way too much the 4-speed went for too little.

This red may be a repaint and it does have 71 fenders on it, among other items (red SSIIs - my pet peeve), but it does look like a very nice job. Its tough because when prices get over 50k for a car we all come out of the woodwork to pick the cars apart (I feel rightfully so) - on the other hand there weren't a lot of 442 convertibles made in the first place (2999) and it takes a lot of money and elbow grease to get a car looking this nice. I'm with Lee its not a high price - I think the price they are asking for the 68 H/O is too high to me (149k).

An everyday W30 convertible is still worth tens of thousands of dollars even if tis just a driver. In reality all these cars are over=priced, you can go out and get a new V6 Mustang convertible that is safer, faster and more convenient for 25k - yes not the same car but you hopefully get my point.
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Old January 27th, 2012, 10:48 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by leepear View Post
The car is priced in the ballpark if it is a documented w-30 convertible. Color change, rear spoiler, reproduction w-27 cover are a few red flags on the car. So when a dealer represents a car they are often dealing with many makes and models. Errors in a listing or not understanding the value of documentation with these cars is common. The Olds executive deal also appears to be a sales line although I have not fully investigated this car or its owner history. It looks to be a nice car 442 or w-30 painted red for resale.

Lee 1970 w-30.
Thanks for heads up on the W27 diff cover. I contacted the original owner from some original documents that came with the car. He told me the story as it is written and have notorized verification.
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Old January 27th, 2012, 10:56 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by stevengerard View Post
A red with on white W30 car just sold at BJ with documentation for $220,000, yes 220k. But the next day a dark blue W30 4 speed convertible supposedly with docs went for 94k. The auto went for way too much the 4-speed went for too little.

This red may be a repaint and it does have 71 fenders on it, among other items (red SSIIs - my pet peeve), but it does look like a very nice job. Its tough because when prices get over 50k for a car we all come out of the woodwork to pick the cars apart (I feel rightfully so) - on the other hand there weren't a lot of 442 convertibles made in the first place (2999) and it takes a lot of money and elbow grease to get a car looking this nice. I'm with Lee its not a high price - I think the price they are asking for the 68 H/O is too high to me (149k).

An everyday W30 convertible is still worth tens of thousands of dollars even if tis just a driver. In reality all these cars are over=priced, you can go out and get a new V6 Mustang convertible that is safer, faster and more convenient for 25k - yes not the same car but you hopefully get my point.
Thanks for your imput regarding the fenders. I am told that all nos replacements went to the 71 style (I assume you are referring to the ridges on the topside inner).
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Old January 27th, 2012, 11:06 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Thanks for your imput regarding the fenders. I am told that all nos replacements went to the 71 style (I assume you are referring to the ridges on the topside inner).
Correct, not a big deal to me (or most people I would think) as many cars have those, just proof that the car has been worked on.

Edit: And another 455 with the washer jar on the driver side, wonder what came first - was it always on that side or did they switch it when they put the non-stock overflow tank on. Only asking because again I have seen many 455s with washer bottle on driver side (including mine) with no evidence that it was ever on the passenger side - which goes against the assembly manual.
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Old January 27th, 2012, 11:16 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Any documentation on the 126 Dual-Gate cars?

I'm guessing it's a "heard-it-from-who-heard-it-from…"
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Old January 27th, 2012, 11:17 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Not up on my '70 W30 convertibles, but ..... is the following correct?
264 built
96 4-spds
168 autos (126 dual gate & 42 column/"normal" floor shift)

Dual Gate is hardly the "rarest" combination.

Is the body number (*291214*) on the body tag appropriate for a Nov. '69 built convertible with VIN sequence 0M188960?

Is that a W27 rear axle or just a W27 cover?

Was a W27 rear axle available with A/C, what's the highest numerical ratio available with A/C & what's the lowest numerical ratio in a W27?
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Old January 27th, 2012, 11:28 AM   #13 (permalink)
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You are correct with the numbers aside of the fact that I don't think the Dual-Gate numbers exist.
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Old January 27th, 2012, 11:32 AM   #14 (permalink)
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You could get it with a 3.23 (SV code I believe), but don't quote me on that code. That MIGHT be a big car code.

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old January 27th, 2012, 02:45 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by hurst68olds View Post

Is the body number (*291214*) on the body tag appropriate for a Nov. '69 built convertible with VIN sequence 0M188960?

Is that a W27 rear axle or just a W27 cover?

Was a W27 rear axle available with A/C, what's the highest numerical ratio available with A/C & what's the lowest numerical ratio in a W27?
Interestingly the VIN of this car is earlier than mine but the body number is later but the build date is a week earlier (Mine is 11C vs 11B) I've seen a lot of cars made in November and their VIN and body number are close to mine but not necessarily in order,

Yes W27 can be had with AC but not lower than 3.23 but mine has AC and its a 3.42
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Old January 27th, 2012, 06:51 PM   #16 (permalink)
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i do not think the car is going anywhere soon. The entire front end, bumper grill etc is not lined up like a $120k car.
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Old January 27th, 2012, 07:20 PM   #17 (permalink)
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i do not think the car is going anywhere soon. The entire front end, bumper grill etc is not lined up like a $120k car.

I have never seen a W25 hood aligned perfectly on the drivers side
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Old January 27th, 2012, 08:04 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Is it just my eyes, or is the stripe on the RR quarter got a slight downward bow in it? A stunning looking car, but when 119,9K shows up as the asking people start getting picky about details.
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Old January 27th, 2012, 09:20 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Is it just my eyes, or is the stripe on the RR quarter got a slight downward bow in it? A stunning looking car, but when 119,9K shows up as the asking people start getting picky about details.
Well, with the price and as it is described as "Much attention to factory detail was exercised during the restoration as this car presents a near perfect interior, excellent fit and outstanding paint." then I say picky should be expected...
Yes, it does look like it's 'bowed', does not look lined up to how the stripe is before the rear wheel.
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Old January 27th, 2012, 09:23 PM   #20 (permalink)
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The original question is what is this car worth. It is worth 60-100k depending on the quality of the restoration. Since I can see many things done incorrectly I would say it is a resale quality restoration may or may not be a w-30.

Lee

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Old January 28th, 2012, 03:16 PM   #21 (permalink)
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The original question is what is this car worth. It is worth 60-100k depending on the quality of the restoration. Since I can see many things done incorrectly I would say it is a resale quality restoration may or may not be a w-30.
Lee
Actually there is no original question. The OP is all about a car offered for sale, which we seemed to be picking apart. It's not in my price range, and my only comment was that the striping seemed 'off'.

I don't have any reason to believe that the OP isn't selling a 70 442 W30 as he claims. Don't know where he got some of the numbers from, because I was under the impression that those records don't exist. Will be interesting to see if the car sells for the ask.
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Old January 28th, 2012, 03:16 PM
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