changing intake manifold and carb on 65 olds dynamic 88 425 cid

[65topless]

hi everybody , i just bought a 1965 dynamic 88 convertible with the 425 engine , it came with the stock engine (51742 miles) and i have decided to upgrade the intake manifold and carbs.. i believe the engine is strong enough and in good shape enough to run well enough .
i would love any good information and tips regarding this project since it will be my first engine project i will do myself.
and since i like things done rights i woant to hear from experienced oldsmobile enthousiast ..
thank you for any comment,help, info or tips

[joe_padavano]

Originally Posted by 65topless

thank you for any comment,help, info or tips

Pretty car. The question is, what do you have now and what do you want to swap onto it? I'll assume you have a 2bbl, otherwise you wouldn't need to swap. Any big block Olds intake will fit your 425. If you don't care about original equipment correctness, the cheapest thing to do is find a cast iron 4bbl intake and Qjet. Olds used a divorced choke (coil mounted in the intake) through 1969 and an integral choke (round black plastic coil) for 1970-up. Either will work, but the later parts are more common. You can also get an electric choke coil that works better than the air-heated one. All factory intakes flow about the same, but I'd avoid the 73-76 intakes with EGR. The Toro intakes have a depressed carb for hood clearance that may impact flow a little.

If you want to go aftermarket, I'd stay with a two plane, either a new Performer or the old O4B. Note the O4B won't clear an HEI if you plan to use one.

I've used the original style turkey tray intake gasket on both cast iron and aluminum intakes. Some people swear it shouldn't be used on aluminum but I've never had a problem (plus the factory used it on the aluminum W-30 intakes). I always use a new one and run a bead of silicone around each of the four water ports on both sides of the gasket. I throw away the rubber end gaskets because they always work their way out. Just build up a wall of silicone on either end of the block and let it skin over before installing the intake.

Note that the cast iron Olds intake is heavy, so be prepared.

[Ryhelio]

Originally Posted by 65topless

hi everybody , i just bought a 1965 dynamic 88 convertible with the 425 engine , it came with the stock engine (51742 miles) and i have decided to upgrade the intake manifold and carbs.. i believe the engine is strong enough and in good shape enough to run well enough .
i would love any good information and tips regarding this project since it will be my first engine project i will do myself.
and since i like things done rights i woant to hear from experienced oldsmobile enthousiast ..
thank you for any comment,help, info or tips

well replacing the intake and carb isnt very hard. Just a few bolts, and a little brute strength to pull that cast iron stock intake out. its pretty awesome once you get it loose, its like when you were a kid and you finally got that loose tooth out. I would talk to someone at Advanced Auto Parts, or some type of parts store about which Carb and intake would be choice. I just bought a Edelbrock performer intake and a performer 600 CFM Carb (not the performer RPM). I have a 455, and that should do well for my car to be a quick little street car. A 600 CFM carb on a 425 should give you a nice power upgrade, but you might want to consider if your block components will be able to handle something like that, if they are just stock. Your best bet is to talk to someone at an autoparts store, they have what fits on your car specifically in there computers. Just dont be scared... I mean fuck its your car! Good luck brother! Sweet ride BTW!! REMEMBER TO PB BLAST ALL YOUR BOLTS AND LET THEM SIT OVER NIGHT so you dont torque to hard on a bolt and have it get mangled. then your in a world of shit! Hit me up on IM if you wish, I am doing the same thing right now while I change out my Head gaskets.

[joe_padavano]

Originally Posted by Ryhelio

I would talk to someone at Advanced Auto Parts, or some type of parts store about which Carb and intake would be choice.... Your best bet is to talk to someone at an autoparts store, they have what fits on your car specifically in there computers.

That probably wouldn't be my first choice for advice on performance equipment. The pimple-faced kids behind the counter at my local Advanced have enough trouble finding stock replacement parts for my 1999 Chevy pickup.

Yes, now that you ask, people DO use the word "curmudgeon" around me...

[Ryhelio]

most of the guys that I talked to at the auto parts store are old car guys. Most of them are retired military out here. Kentucky and Tennessee don't have emissions laws, so guys out here have 11 second daily drivers. Its not too hard for them to punch in your make, model, year into their computer and find out which parts fit your car. Even pimply faced teenagers can do that! I havent found very many good resources on the web that can match the databases that these auto parts stores have. but it sucks when you deal with anybody who doesnt take their job seriously, and whose to say that you are paying for competence? But thats a whole other forum, right? But hey what do I know, Im not the one with six or seven cars posted in my signature block, and not one single pic showing any of them off.

PS QUADRAJET makes garbage. If you want an easy bolt on and go, garbage carb, buy a quadrajunk. If you want something a bit more advanced to tune and tinker with get a holley double pumper, if you want something in the middle, as in bolt on and go but still great to adjust, get an Edelbrock. Again just a guy with ONE Olds (see pic)...

[Oldsguy]

Just cause a guy posts a list of cars and doesn't picture all of them doesn't mean he is a trash talker that doesn't know anything. He has his opinions just like the rest of us.

[88 coupe]

Originally Posted by Ryhelio

........ most of the guys that I talked to at the auto parts store are old car guys ........

Increased chronological age and experience do not insure knowledge on a given subject. They only increase the odds of it having been acquired.

My guess is, that you are talking about a Mom & Pop operation. I have no doubt, that joe_padavano was referring to the “chain stores” that compensate for their lack of service, with low pricing.

........ guys out here have 11 second daily drivers ........

I have two of them. Using the same logic, I should know twice as much as they do.

........ Its not too hard for them to punch in your make, model, year into their computer and find out which parts fit your car. Even pimply faced teenagers can do that. ........

I take it, you are unaware that, the data in those computers is often outdated, inaccurate, and/or incomplete.

........ But hey what do I know, Im not the one with six or seven cars posted in my signature block, and not one single pic showing any of them ........

You might be interested in knowing that joe_padavano is a nationally recognized authority, who is often quoted in Oldsmobile discussions.

I've learned a lot from from him. You can too, if you make a small change in your attitude.

I have 7 cars, but I have not even listed them. Using the above logic, I have no business posting here.

........ QUADRAJET makes garbage ........

There is, at least, one mid 9 second Oldsmobile that uses an unmodified Q-jet in NHRA Superstock Competition.

Norm

[Ryhelio]

Originally Posted by 88 coupe

Increased chronological age and experience do not insure knowledge on a given subject. They only increase the odds of it having been acquired.

My guess is, that you are talking about a Mom & Pop operation. I have no doubt, that joe_padavano was referring to the “chain stores” that compensate for their lack of service, with low pricing.


I have two of them. Using the same logic, I should know twice as much as they do.


I take it, you are unaware that, the data in those computers is often outdated, inaccurate, and/or incomplete.


You might be interested in knowing that joe_padavano is a nationally recognized authority, who is often quoted in Oldsmobile discussions.

I've learned a lot from from him. You can too, if you make a small change in your attitude.

I have 7 cars, but I have not even listed them. Using the above logic, I have no business posting here.


There is, at least, one mid 9 second Oldsmobile that uses an unmodified Q-jet in NHRA Superstock Competition.

Norm

Hey thats great Norm, and I dont doubt anyone or what they are all about. But for all you know I could be Dick Miller! However if you were to scroll up a little further into the forum you would read shotgun blast from Joe. All I was trying to do was offer MY advice to someone who is changing a intake manifold and Carb. Im sure joe knows probably more than a thing or two about a thing or two. Its all good though, you gotta be thick skinned brotha! The fact of the matter is these chain stores spend alot of money in there marketing research and their database management. They are at the top of the billion dollar autoparts industry. If you were made to feel you werent special because some jerk off, import driving kid didnt give a shit about your project, doesnt mean that the resource isnt viable. I apologize if my attitude isnt humble. I have been a grown man for quite a while now. I am a father, husband and a Combat Veteran. I am 23 years old and I own my own home. Its not even about a parts store or how they do business, its a respect and tact thing (something every person is entitled to). I just wouldnt go about it that way, and maybe I just need thicker skin myself. If Joe makes himself feel better by picking apart someones post thats his business, Im over it. As far as the whole pic posting thing, that was all in fun and me just giving Joe a little shit; However this is a forum about Oldsmobiles right? I just think it would be awesome to see one of his cars, or maybe both of your 11 second cars. As far as what you own and your qualifications of posting on here is up to you, all I was getting at was that most people who build eleven second daily drivers usually know a few things. Where ever you got your math dialed into that is beyond me, I said nothing about what you know. I am sure that Qjet makes some very nice custom carbs, I doubt any of them are commercial off the shelf items. I would be interested in seeing that mid nine second car you were talking about, Im sure my mouth will be full of foot once you post it. I was reffering to Advanced Auto Parts actually. not a mom and pop outfit. I asked them about the system they have and they told me that its updated weekly, they are a pretty high volume store though. I have never had any problems getting parts from them. And thats just my opinion!

[65topless]

first let me thank you all for your imput and inside knowledge and also for some very interesting reading...
i have tried to pick an intake manifold on ebay but i just realized that i might be doing things the wrong way ... i maybe should mention that i own a holley carb P-80 # 80508-1 / 1660 . i got it from a friend that needed money about 5 years ago and it had been sitting in a box since.. and since i never got the money back i guess i have decided to use it on the oldsmobile ..
now i suppose that this carburator will work for the olds 425 and maybe i should ask you gentlemen what would be your first choice of intake manifold.. I AM NOT TRYING TO BUILD A RACE CAR but i am trying to get the 425 a good fun strong potential on the street so IT CAN BE A GOOD MUSCLE CAR AS IT WAS DESIGNED.
i would of course get the carburator cleaned up and ready with a holley rebuild kit.
so please feel free to send me your comments, thoughts, and advices while remembering that i am a very green rookie muscle car owner and that i was born in europe so i doesn't know the muscle car language . so please write your post in rookie friendly terms .. i appreciate all of your help .. thank you
denis

[joe_padavano]

Originally Posted by Ryhelio

...However if you were to scroll up a little further into the forum you would read shotgun blast from Joe.

Is this the "shotgun blast":

Originally Posted by joe_padavano

That probably wouldn't be my first choice for advice on performance equipment.

Wow. That one left quite a crater...

Hey, if the Advanced Auto Parts chain has competent workers in your area, great. My personal experience here in Northern VA is different. I personally would not recommend them as a source of performance advice for a newbie on an engine that's been out of production for 30 years, which is what I said previously.

Originally Posted by Ryhelio

The fact of the matter is these chain stores spend alot of money in there marketing research and their database management.

GM spent a lot of money in THEIR marketing research on the Pontiac Aztek. What's your point?

Originally Posted by Ryhelio

If Joe makes himself feel better by picking apart someones post thats his business, Im over it.

One sentence about a bad experience at a discount auto parts chain is "picking apart"?

Originally Posted by Ryhelio

...you gotta be thick skinned brotha!

I think the term you're looking for is "irony".

By the way, you ought to look up the term "curmudgeon", since I was applying it to myself. That's called self-depreciating humor.

[Oldsguy]

Denis, as far as I can remember most all Holley carbs are squarbore which means that both the secondary (two back holes) and primary (two front holes) are the same diameter. There may be some monster sized carbs that Holley makes that aren't but generally speaking.... Therefore, you need to buy a manifold that not only fits your engine but fits the carburetor and has a corresponding squarbore pattern. You should be able to find a nice performer manifold from Edelbrock that would work fine or perhaps an older model like an O4B like Joe mentioned. I would recommend that you avoid the Holley Dominator, the Edelbrock Torker, or the like. Those manifolds are single plane design and will not be as street freindly, they are intended for a higher rpm range and may not allow your engine to develop a good vacuum signal off idle for all the amenitys needed like power brakes. You can find carbs on Ebay just watch out for cracks, corroded areas around the front and rear water ports, and galled holes on the carb mounting surface that might have stripped threads. Usually sellers will address these items but sometimes with a caveat that it is "easily repaired". A condition like that may not be. Anyway, good luck in your search.
Dan

[joe_padavano]

Originally Posted by Oldsguy

Denis, as far as I can remember most all Holley carbs are squarbore which means that both the secondary (two back holes) and primary (two front holes) are the same diameter.

Actually, Holley did make a spreadbore carb in 650-800 CFM that was available in both single pumper/vac secondaries and double pumper/mech secondaries versions. See attached photos.

You should be able to find a nice performer manifold from Edelbrock that would work fine or perhaps an older model like an O4B like Joe mentioned.

Be aware that the O4B was made in both square bore and spread bore versions. It also won't clear an HEI.

[Oldsguy]

Yeah, I thought there were some, but sure don't see them much.

[Oldsmaniac]

Not wanting to stray off topic but I must for a minute, The chain parts stores here in NJ that I visit rely strictly on the computer....If the computer doesnt list it it wont fit as far as the counter guy is concerned. Here they are all know nothing robots that only know what the computer tells them. Some dont even go back to 1966. I recently went to get an air filter for my 66 Starfire. The computer had a listing and it was wrong. I then asked for an 88 filter with 4bbl. That was wrong too. The 66 98 listed the correct filter however that one could not be had because the warehouse doesnt stock it. I feel sorry for the newb's who dont have some smarts in the interchange ability with Olds stuff. I also needed a turbo 400 gasket and filter. Computer didnt go back to 1966. I said how about 1969?....Oh yeah that year was in the book so I was in business....the counter guy didnt have a clue.

[65topless]

gentlemen gentlemen please if i wanted to here people arguing i would have went visiting my wife's family ...

now i know my questions are very simple for you , but they are primordial for me so please let's keep the subject about intake swapping and upgrading ..

NOT ABOUT SARCASTIC COMMENTS ON WHO LIKES WHAT ALONG , REPLIES AND POINT OF VIEWS ...

so please let's all get along on my threads and pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase help me with any technical knowledges and experience you have to teach me a thing or two on oldsmobile and not on arguing ( i have my lovely wife for that )

on a brighter note i really apreciate the technical help, ideas and opinion you guys have to share

thank you

P.S i just realise that after i posted this i received some very valuable info so i felt bad about being a little grumpy .. once again thank you guys

[Ryhelio]

Originally Posted by 65topless

gentlemen gentlemen please if i wanted to here people arguing i would have went visiting my wife's family ...

now i know my questions are very simple for you , but they are primordial for me so please let's keep the subject about intake swapping and upgrading ..

NOT ABOUT SARCASTIC COMMENTS ON WHO LIKES WHAT ALONG , REPLIES AND POINT OF VIEWS ...

so please let's all get along on my threads and pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase help me with any technical knowledges and experience you have to teach me a thing or two on oldsmobile and not on arguing ( i have my lovely wife for that )

on a brighter note i really apreciate the technical help, ideas and opinion you guys have to share

thank you

P.S i just realise that after i posted this i received some very valuable info so i felt bad about being a little grumpy .. once again thank you guys

Hey its nothin but love on this end!

[Oldsproject]

WOW...... I logged on, found a great question, some advice then down hill from there. Well I only have one thing to say then I'll give my advice on the question from 65topless.

The three senior guys above (Joe, Oldsguy, Super 88) have a tremendous knowledge of Oldsmobiles and have personnally helped me in indescribable fashion (also my Medford friend). I've read 40-50% of the posts on this site in all catagories and the knowledge base here is close to unparalled. I know Ryhelio was only helping but certainly misinterpreted Joes e-mail and that in a nut shell is the problem. E-mail is too easy to read into and in my humble opinion, a major problem in business AND pleasure.

As for 65topless, here's what I did with my 425 from a 67 dynamic (Not done yet)........ I went with the Olds Performer by Edlebrock matched up with an Edelbrock 750 CFM carb. Keep in mind though, I beefed up the bottom end with moly straps on the main caps, new high comp pistons, rings, better cam, timing chain, beefed up the valve train, etc.... When I started I was after a solid to top end street car..... what I have is a tire eating monster (which is good)! I'm just now getting the car dialed in and to the point where I can take it for test drives so still have some work to do but yesterday, I stopped and floored it for the first time and had to let off the gas because the tires were still smoking (about 50-60 yards)..... that's good and bad. Good because I have ample power to the wheels, bad because it's not controlled yet (probably need posi in the rear) and any fool in a Hyundai (OK overstated a bit) will eat my lunch as I sit there and smoke up the place. My personal opinion is that the simple change to the bigger intake and a bigger carb (600 - 750) will significantly improve what you already have. If there was one other thing I'd do without a lot of money it's headers and higher flow exhaust. I used hooker headers combined with the 2 1/2" header back kit from Jegs. If there's one thing I learned, Olds engines need to breath.... the more you can help the intake AND exhaust..... the more you'll get.

Keep in mind, my 425 was my first project so listen to the experts and browse the site. There is good information here.

By the way, couple tricks I learned by reading Mondellos books..... get some Gaskanich glue, apply glue to the intake and top of the gasket, let it tack up then glue it to the intake, then glue the head and the bottom of the gasket, use high temp RTV around all of the water jackets and DO NOT use the rubber gaskets on the ends. Build them up with some good RTV. The seal you get is tremendous if you take your time and do it this way. Otherwise, better chance you'll have leaks and it's a bitch getting the gaskets on right.

In any event, goodluck and welcome! If you have any questions I can give you a blow by blow on what I did and some helpful do's and dont's (learned the hard way). That 425 is arguably as good as most 455"s (my opinion only) as there really isn't a tremendous amount of differance and they have forged steel cranks which seem to hold up better to higher RPM applications but a little less tourque then the 455.

Any event, my 2 cents from the peanut gallery.

[joe_padavano]

Originally Posted by Oldsproject

E-mail is too easy to read into and in my humble opinion, a major problem in business AND pleasure.

Amen and thanks for bringing us back to Earth.

Just to add to your very thorough post, be aware of the differences in carb choke mechanisms. If you use an aftermarket carb it will almost certainly have an electric choke. If you go this way, you'll need to install an additional oil pressure switch so that the choke only gets power if the engine is running. If you don't do this, turning the key on but not starting the car will cause the choke to heat up and open, causing a hard starting situation when you do try to start the car.

If your car only has an oil light, replace the sending unit with this one:

http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductD...pe=417&PTSet=A

This sender was used on the Vega which had an electric fuel pump. The center terminal on the sender connects to your idiot light wire. The other two terminals are an on/off switch for the fuel pump, or in your case the electric choke.

If you're running an oil pressure gauge, you'll need to install a tee fitting, screw the gauge sender into one leg and this sender into the other. Use just the two outboard terminals in that case.

[88 coupe]

Originally Posted by Ryhelio

........ But for all you know I could be Dick Miller ........

I know Dick Miller. I've learned a little from him also. Your posts are nothing like his, starting with his screen name, "DICK MILLER".

Not possible for anyone to confuse you with Dick Miller.

........ All I was trying to do was offer MY advice to someone who is changing a intake manifold and Carb ........

It would have been a good post, if you had stuck to what you actually know.

........ you gotta be thick skinned brotha ........

Thickness of ones skin has no relationship to the facts/opinions presented in another's post.

........ I apologize if my attitude isnt humble ........

No one said anything about "humble". The above questions/comments have only addressed the validity the information you posted.

A "confident" attitude is normally a good thing, but one always has to expect a small number of readers to read something negative into it.

Most readers do not read attitude, emotion, or intent, into a post, they just read what is actually written, and learn what they can from it.

My "attitude comment" referred to finding out the depth and temperature of the pool, before diving in head first. Next step would be to post only what you know about, and question anything you don't understand.

........ I have been a grown man for quite a while now. I am a father, husband and a Combat Veteran. I am 23 years old and I own my own home .........

First: Thank you for your service.

Second: This information belongs in the "Introductions" thread.

........ that was all in fun and me just giving Joe a little s**t ........

Not what I read.

FWIW, Your language is not the kind that is normally used on a family site.

........ or maybe both of your 11 second cars .........

You won't see them in this thread.

........ I would be interested in seeing that mid nine second car you were talking about, Im sure my mouth will be full of foot once you post it.

If you cannot find it here, You can see them at any NHRA national meet.


Spreadbore Holley was sold as a "bolt on" replacement carb, for those who did not understand the Q-jet.

Originally Posted by 65topless

........ after i posted this i received some very valuable info so ........