Carsick

I'm about to start restoring this and wanted to find out exactly what it is. It has A/c, power brakes , f/r sway bars, and backed by a Th400. The motor looks to have been pulled out and painted in the past. Everything under the hood is pretty much stoc from what I can tell. I bought the car at an estate sale so I didn't have the oppertunity to talk to the previous owner and find out more history on the car. I know so far that is was Palomino Gold with a white top. I'm assuming came with black stripes on the hood from the factory ? The interior I believe used to be mustard gold (I think that's what it was called).

I'd like to find out if this is a w32 or ? Basicly as much about it as possible...is it 1of the 297 or 1 of ?

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dnmfranco

Hi interior is gold referred to as mustard gold
car was built in 2nd week of may - 69 in Freemont
black stripes were factory
motor's air cleaner is not factory, cant tell you if it is the original 400 or not
car is not a w-32 as they did not come w a/c
however rare due to being a sports coupe


hope that helps

dnmfranco

Oh sorry E is for parchment vinyl top
b 80 is referring to the drip rail moldings I believe

joe_padavano

Once again, if you have to ask if a car is a W-32, it isn't. The fact that it has none of the W-32 equipment and equipment that was not available with the W-32 package is another give-away.

You do have a real 1969 442 Sport Coupe built at the Fremont, CA assembly plant. The fact that the engine is completely painted the incorrect blue tells me that it may be a replacement. You'll want to get the casting numbers off the block and heads to figure out what you have. The master cylinder is also a replacement and while functionally correct, it is not the original style.

Carsick

Thank u everyone for the info. Any idea what the stock air filter housing would have been? I'll write down all the engine, carb, distributer, tranny and rear end numbers I can find today. I know the block is a 'G' block, the exaust manifolds are defiantly 69 since the have the heat riser valve built into the manifold. Would I be better off returning the interior to the og mustard gold? I like the black way better but I want to do it right. I'm having a hard time not hot rodding this thing out but I know some cars are better left original when it comes to the restoration. My plan was to do the stripes in white to match the top and to leave the interior black. I also wanted to throw on a set of headers. I don't even know where to find mustard gold door panels or seat covers...

Are there any other numbers I should be looking for? Good eye Joe on the master cylinder, I'll have to find the right right one.

Also is this diagram correct ?
67-later-Oldsmobile-V8_Firing-Order_zpskweu7i5v.jpg

dnmfranco

stock air cleaner is SE coded on back and is orange in color
interior color imo is up to you the purists will advocate to go original, but like you say black is nice


Legendary is the only one that I know of that are doing 69 gold it is where I got my gold interior from


far as numbers check dist, carb, tranny can tell you if original
your carb should a 9251 ending numbers

Octania

The diagram shown is correct, yes.
#1 cylinder is the front left one.
2-4-6-8 front to back down the RH side.

If you look for images of '69 442's on the internet you should be able to spot a proper air cleaner. Reddish. Hot air fitting underside of snout out near the end. Cutlass/350 ones look similar but have a narrower snout and a separate flare secured to the end of the snout; performance engine air cleaner has a wider snout and the snout flare is just part of the snout metal, no separate piece.

"the exaust manifolds are defiantly 69"
==============
If they are defying you, you should beat them into submission. Nipple that in the bud, as it were.
:-)
I know you meant "definitely"
just kidding

rcorrigan5

Here's what a stock air cleaner looks like. And...I'd go back to original colors, simply for the value in the car. I agree that I would rather have black, and black is the easiest to obtain, but you'll spend as much for black as you will the original color and I believe the original color will add value to your car. I'd stay with the stock exhaust manifolds and system, too. That's just me...I like it the way it would have come from the assembly plant, even though I have added a few options to my '68 (rallye pac, AM/FM radio, speedminder speedometer) and intend to do it as well to my '69 (power antenna, power trunk release, and possibly power door locks and a passenger side mirror) since I don't have an actual build sheet for either car.


Randy C.

Octania

my, Randy, what pretty nail polish!

Probably the easiest telling dimension would be the width of the snout where it joins the base.

PS, original poster, I have a spare correct[ish] air cleaner, somewhere. "OS" app code I believe, needs paint.

Carsick

As far as the interior goes I've decided to go with black and do some of the dash in the palomino gold. I want the engine to look factory with the exception of headers. I've been busy with body work lately. I'm going to shave the door handles, antenna and paint the buppers body color....stock wheels. If the the car was in better original shape I'd probably go with a more correct restoration...

Is the build sheet above the gas tank most of the time or ....?


@ Rccorrigon5, can you attach a couple pictures of your 68 and 69?

Carsick

Im starting to have second thoughts on going with the original color (polomino gold).

I saw a new toyota camry the other day and it was a light sky blue pearl. I think that with the color matched wheels, white stripes and top would look great. ..

Anyone want to buy a gallon of polomino gold?

BangScreech4-4-2

So ... another restomod?

rcorrigan5

Sorry for the late, late reply. Here are a couple of pics of my '68. My '69 is a restoration in progress and the pics tell that tale.


Randy C.

dnmfranco

Nice Randy is 69 saffron ?

Carsick

That's awesome, were they both originally white? What color(s) are you interior? I'd love to see a side by side when the '69 is done.

Carsick

Its starting to look that way. The polomino doesn't do much for the body lines , just seems kinda boring. Ill find a picture of that blue I saw.

I think Im going to keep the door handles and shave just the locks on the doors, trunk and shave the antenna. 2" drop spindals, stock wheels with the old school polyglas goodyears.

BangScreech4-4-2

Not many of these post cars left. Might be worth more money with a proper restoration.

firefrost gold

Its your car, but I like the stock color . I think it is a good bench mark of the time. I would paint it and bring it back to the way it was born . But hen again I like rallyes

rcorrigan5

The '68 is provincial white. The '69 is cameo white, a whiter white than provincial white, although the pictures don't show it that well. You are right - a side-by-side pic when the '69 is done would easily show the difference. I think the difference now is because the '68 is a digital pic and the '69 is a scanned film pic.


Interiors are both black. The biggest difference is the '69 has a lot more options than the '68. The '68 even has a special order bench seat - rare for a '68 4-4-2 convertible - I've seen or know of only 2 others besides mine that are equipped that way. The '69 has buckets, a console, A/C, front seat shoulder belts, factory cruise and AM-FM stereo. Both have THM400s ('68 on the column, '69 on the floor) and the driver side remote mirror.


But again, back to your car. My vote is for the original color!

Randy C.

Carsick

Hey guys, I have a '69 442 Sports Coupe. Id like to see if there's a chance its a w32. It has A/C but according to this website that doesn't rule it out as a possible w32 car...? Can some one show me better info on the exact specs/ identification if this website is wrong. They only made 25 w32 Sports Coupes so I realize the chances are slim...

Here's a link to the webite I got the below information from: http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/ofwmc.htm

W-32

"For the person who wants something in-between the W-31 and W-30".


1969:

Authentication:
Special carb number 7029251.
A 442 option upon which 297 were built (25 Sport Coupes, 247 Holiday Coupes, and 25 Convertibles.). 350 hp compared to 360 for the W-30. a toned down, "more streetable" version of the W-30 with a milder cam (286 degree and .472 lift) that could run power brakes and a standard TH-400 transmission. The W-32 option provided W-30 equipment (the same OAI but the engine was basically the 4 speed combination) with a milder cam and mandatory auto transmission, as well as W-32 badges, a decal above the front quarter marker lights.

These cars were produced in any plant (not just Lansing like the W-30 and W-31), and the engine was not hand assembled with selected parts like the W-30 and W-31's. The cam specs were slightly different than the stick engine. The W-30 cam provided inadequate vacuum for A/C, and so A/C was unavailable with W-30 that year, so it stands to reason that W-32, with its smoother cam, could have been sold to people who wanted a performance boost and air conditioning.

It appears that in 1969, Oldsmobile was fiddling with the horsepower numbers - one of their publications lists the W-32 engine at 360 HP, while all of the other charts I found list it at 350 HP. Also, the dealer literature says that A/C is not available, but the W-Machines brochure doesn't list A/C as an option not available. My guess is the brochure, being simply a single piece of blue paper folded twice, was a first stab at getting the word to the streets and is probably not as trustworthy as other sources.



"The W-32 option was available on the
*442 Sport Coupe
*442 Holiday Coupe
*442 Convertible

And Includes:
*400 CID 360 HP engine with
*special camshaft
*special distributor
*heavy-duty water pump
*aluminum fan and special fan clutch
*W-32 front fender decals

Mandatory Options:
*Anti-spin rear axle G-80
*Heavy-duty radiator V-01, V-02
*Fiberglas belted tires P-81
*Special Turbo Hydramatic transmission M-YO
*Hood paint stripe Y-73

Options Not Available:
*Power door locks A-93
*Engine cooling equipment Y-72

Carsick

Can someone show me where it says that w32 cars didnt have a/c?

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BangScreech4-4-2

Yes, but what makes you think YOUR car is a W-32?

Carsick

I didn't say I thought my car was a w32 car I said I wanted to see if there was a chance that it was even though it was an A/c car. Im looking for specs on w32 cars stating whether or not they were available with A/C....

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dnmfranco

no a/c available on w-32's .

joe_padavano

First, if you have to ask, your car isn't a W-32. You'd already know it by now, and would have paid accordingly.

Second, A/C was not available. The passenger side O.A.I. hose conflicted with the A/C compressor. The 68 H/O cars were the only ones to use the ducted O.A.I. and A/C, and that is a convoluted hose routing. There are exactly zero documented W-32 cars with factory-installed A/C. There is possibly one car with dealer-installed A/C, which has been the subject of a lengthy debate and still has no documentation that I am aware of.

joe_padavano

You don't like the answer you got back in January and now you are asking it again in two different threads.

Is there ANY evidence that there has EVER been O.A.I. hardware installed on the car? Is there ANY evidence that the A/C is not factory-installed?

BangScreech4-4-2

So relax, Carsick -- there's no chance.

Carsick

Why does everyone say that a w32 car couldn't have a/c ???? People are spreading bad info saying if a 442 has A/C it can't be a W32. Im looking for more info...not just word of mouth.

Thanks for you're informative post Joe....really helped me out

Carsick

Im not stuck on trying to prove that my car is a w32...I doubt it is/was. What I am trying to do here is get more info/data showing what everyone is saying....

"The W-30 cam provided inadequate vacuum for A/C, and so A/C was unavailable with W-30 that year, so it stands to reason that W-32, with its smoother cam, could have been sold to people who wanted a performance boost and air conditioning."

BangScreech4-4-2

Sarcasm?

Carsick

"A/C" is not listed as an option not available on a W32 car.....why do you think it wasn't available on w32 cars? Besides the OAI (My air cleaner housing is long gone. I bought this car from an estate sale after the owner died so I don't have much previous information on the history of the car. Is it possible that w32's with A/C didn't use OAI?

Links or references on information would be much appreciated. I can't seem to find the part in any of the information I've been going through where it rules out this car as a w32 simply because it has factory A/C.

Carsick

W-32

"For the person who wants something in-between the W-31 and W-30".


1969:

Authentication:
Special carb number 7029251.
A 442 option upon which 297 were built (25 Sport Coupes, 247 Holiday Coupes, and 25 Convertibles.). 350 hp compared to 360 for the W-30. a toned down, "more streetable" version of the W-30 with a milder cam (286 degree and .472 lift) that could run power brakes and a standard TH-400 transmission. The W-32 option provided W-30 equipment (the same OAI but the engine was basically the 4 speed combination) with a milder cam and mandatory auto transmission, as well as W-32 badges, a decal above the front quarter marker lights.

These cars were produced in any plant (not just Lansing like the W-30 and W-31), and the engine was not hand assembled with selected parts like the W-30 and W-31's. The cam specs were slightly different than the stick engine. The W-30 cam provided inadequate vacuum for A/C, and so A/C was unavailable with W-30 that year, so it stands to reason that W-32, with its smoother cam, could have been sold to people who wanted a performance boost and air conditioning.
image3mp_zpsoyguoopn.jpg
It appears that in 1969, the dealer literature says that A/C is not available, but the W-Machines brochure doesn't list A/C as an option NOT available. My guess is the brochure, being simply a single piece of blue paper folded twice, was a first stab at getting the word to the streets and is probably not as trustworthy as other sources...

Diego

Who's saying that?

Carsick

I was quoting this website: http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/ofwmc.htm#WM W-32

BangScreech4-4-2

Joe's word is all the proof most people on this site (and many other places) need. His opinion on all things Oldsmobile is highly valued, and most of us learned long ago not to start arguments with him. He'll take you to school, teach you a lesson, whup you for any backtalk and have you back before dinner.

Carsick

Lol well then take me to school. Prove to me that I'm wrong in thinking w32 cars could have had A/C. Im not looking to start an argument here im on a quest for knowledge you could say...not just word of mouth info.

joe_padavano

You now have this same discussion going in THREE separate thread.

Your car has no evidence of the O.A.I. hose retainers or the passenger side mounting for the washer tank. It has no evidence that there were ever under-bumper scoops installed. You've been asking this question since January. You've been answered many times. Your car is not a W-32.



As for the documentation on factory-built cars with A/C, in the 45 years since these cars were produced, not one with factory-installed A/C has surfaced. The alleged ones that people have tried to pawn off have repeatedly been shown to be dealer-installed or clones.

Finally, you ask for proof. The updated factory SPECS sheet for the 442 clearly says that RPO W-32 is N.A. with C60. Note that if you go to oldcarbrocures.org, the version of the 1969 SPECS book they have on line is the Oct 1968 printing, which was prior to the introduction of the W-32 option. The T. Patrick Sullivan book (despite all it's errors) reproduces a version of the factory SPECS sheet on Page 91 that is from a January 1969 printing after the W-32 option was available. You can find this on Google Books, where you can view this particular page. Click on the URL below to get to Page 91 and read it for yourself.

http://books.google.com/books?id=2Hq...page&q&f=false

joe_padavano

It doesn't "appear", it's clearly printed that W-32 is N.A. with C60. See the other thread where I posted the link to the SPECS sheet from Jan 1969 that documents this. The SPECS sheets are the real documents that the sales force used when optioning the cars. This "W-machines" sheet is a marketing department output and was not used to order or option cars.

Are we done now?

Carsick

Thank you (non sarcasticly) , that makes sense to me.

joe_padavano

In the interest of saving everyone time, I've moved your three threads worth of posts to this single thread.