Tubular Suspension

[Jolly Green]

Any of your guys get a suspension kit for your 442? It seems like most 442 guys are more interested in stock restoration than modernization. I was curious as to what you thought about the kits and what did you upgrade and where did you get them?

[88 coupe]

Originally Posted by Jolly Green

........ stock restoration than modernization ........

Modernization for the sake of modernization? Or showmanship? Or do you actually have a practical reason to modify a perfectly good design?

Originally Posted by Jolly Green

........ what you thought about the kits ........

Unless one actually has a reason, they would be a waste of time and money.

Norm

[Jolly Green]

Well, I'm still not sold on the new kit. I want to improve handling, but I haven't gotten the car on the road yet, so I don't know how they handle stock. That's my only reasoning, not for showmanship or the sake of.

[88 coupe]

Originally Posted by Jolly Green

........ I want to improve handling ........

Originally Posted by Jolly Green

........ I don't know how they handle stock ........

I think, I will let someone else take it from here.

Norm

[Olds64]

Jolly Green, I suggest you put new bushings and ball joints on your current suspension. A short long arm suspension is about as high tech as you are going to get. They still use SLA suspensions on high end exotic cars. Be glad you don't have a king pin suspension with leaf springs.

I installed a PST kit on my 64 98 and was very happy with it. I put in new shocks but left the springs the way they were. It handled like a dream afterward. You can get the poly graphite bushings for "improved" handling. However, I don't know if these work the way they are advertised. I installed rubber bushings in my car for a "softer" ride. I haven't heard anything bad about poly graphite though.

If you really want to "beef up" your suspension I suggest looking into heavy duty sway bars for your front and rear suspension. You might also get high dollar shocks and new springs. However, you have to ask yourself what you want from your car. I don't think any Oldsmobile is going to run slalom courses, even if you put big money into the suspension. They are just too BIG.

[Jolly Green]

Year One offers a full Prothane red polyurethane bushing kit for the 66-72 Cutlass/442's. Includes ball joint boots, control arm bushings, sway bar end links, tie rod boots and transmission mount. What do you think about that as opposed to a tubular suspension modification?

[joe_padavano]

Originally Posted by Jolly Green

Year One offers a full Prothane red polyurethane bushing kit for the 66-72 Cutlass/442's. Includes ball joint boots, control arm bushings, sway bar end links, tie rod boots and transmission mount. What do you think about that as opposed to a tubular suspension modification?

These are not mutually exclusive. The goal is to eliminate unwanted motion and deflections in the suspension so the tires travel in the intended directions. These deflections come from many sources - unwanted motion in the soft rubber bushings, flexing of the control arms, looseness in the wheel bearings and ball joints, etc. The tubular arms are intended to be stiffer than the stock stamped control arms, thus eliminating that deflection source. Poly bushings are intended to be stiffer than rubber, tightening up that deflection source.

Note that SOME deflection in the rubber is required, particularly at the rear four-bar suspension arms. The stock GM suspension is designed to twist the upper arms slightly as the suspension moves up and down. The stock rubber bushings have enough flexibility to accommodate this. Using poly bushings in both ends of all four arms at the rear, particularly with stiff tubular arms, will cause binding. You must use the upper arms with the metal ball joint at the forward end to eliminate the binding.

Looking at the front suspension, I find the Global West arms to be much better built (and stiffer) than the Hotchkis arms (at least, speaking as an aerospace engineer). Global West also uses their del-a-lum bushings, which are concentric aluminum bushings with a teflon liner. These are MUCH stiffer than even poly, but have grease fittings so they won't squeak. Of course, the ride quality suffers.

[Jolly Green]

Ahhhh, now its all starting to make sense.

Here's what I was thinking about, let me know if I'm off the rocker.

Global West front end kit (modified to have disc brakes)
Hotchkis Total Vehicle System for the rear end (boxed rear links and modified for disc brakes)

What do you guys think? Oh, and they make the Global Wests with Poly OR Del-A-Lum bushings. Would poly still improve the handling but enhance the ride or will it just negate the effects of the tubular suspension? Basically, which would you recommend?

Joe, who do you do Aero Eng for? My BS (so to speak) was in AsE from Univ Of Cincinnati. Worked at Air Force Research Labs for a few years before joining the service.

[olds1968]

dont know if this will help with your decision but you should look into air ride technologies (they say it has a combination of comfortable ride quality and serious cornering power) im looking to buy a complete air ride system from them soon.
if you want to look it up this is the site www.ridetech.com.

[Olds64]

I have heard of Air Ride. They are highly recommended on the Impala SS forum I have been posting on recently.

Jolly Green, you will have to decide how much money to spend. Replacing the stamped steel control arms on a 60s or 70s muscle car seems illogical to me. I guess if you are converting over to 4 wheel disc brakes and new control arms are included in the kit then all the better. However, only you can decide what you really want to spend your money on. Aren't there ways to convert to disc brakes without replacing the existing suspension components?

[Jolly Green]

There are kits to upgrade to disc brakes without changing the suspension. Just wondering if its worthwhile to upgrade suspension pieces in addition to the disc brakes.

[olds1968]

we can only give suggestions but your the one the makes the final decision. like olds64 said it all depends on what you want and how much your willing to spend.

[Jolly Green]

I appreciate all the suggestions, I really do. I was just hoping for something more definite, haha. From what I'm seeing, I believe most of the people on this forum do not believe a tubular suspension is worth it for my application. So I will probably stick with the bushing and ball joint replacement and buy the disc conversion kit for the front and rear. I figure that will give me alot of experience for future more in-depth projects but still make the car a fun ride. If I wish to go further in the future, it'll be available. what ya think? Yay or nay?

Oh and one more thing. For just simple dragway fun and for a good hookup on launches on the street, would you think a Hotchkis TVS for the rear end would be worth it? Boxed four link that's adjustable instead of the three-sides.

[joe_padavano]

Originally Posted by Jolly Green

Oh and one more thing. For just simple dragway fun and for a good hookup on launches on the street, would you think a Hotchkis TVS for the rear end would be worth it? Boxed four link that's adjustable instead of the three-sides.

The stiffer rear arms will help repeatability during launch. The adjustable upper arms can help dial in the suspension. I'd also consider the upper arm relocation brackets that attach to the axle center section.