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Old May 14th, 2011, 05:47 PM   #1
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1970 442: Sports Coupe vs Holiday Coupe

I recently removed my fathers 1970 442 w-30 from a storage facility after 15 years. The 442 was his baby as it was his first brand new vehicle and he had kept it in great condition before storing it away. It is grey in color with a black vinyl top and 4 speed manual transmission. I am trying to gain as much knowledge about this vehicle as I can and am trying to determine if it's a holiday or sports coupe. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
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Old May 14th, 2011, 06:00 PM   #2
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if the vin starts 34477 it's a sports coupe, which is rarer, and also w/o knowing the VINif you were to have the front and rear windows down, you could not pass your arm from front to rear because there's a body post in the way. Sports coupes are also called post coupes due to that post.
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Old May 14th, 2011, 06:27 PM   #3
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wow, very cool, an original owner car, is your dad still around, do you have any of the original documentation that came with it?
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Old May 14th, 2011, 06:51 PM   #4
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wow, very cool, an original owner car, is your dad still around, do you have any of the original documentation that came with it?

Yeah What he said. If you still have the documentation and the p-o-p that would be great.
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Old May 14th, 2011, 10:13 PM   #5
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There's no post between the front and rear window so it must be a holiday coupe. I towed the car directly to a shop from the storage facility so I didn't get to check to see if there were any docs in the vehicle. Unfortunately, my fathers no longer around. I'm definitely interested in getting it up and running again. Thanks again for the information.
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Old May 15th, 2011, 02:57 AM   #6
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Just thought I would clear things up. Sorry your dad is not around any more, but that is not what I meant. The p-o-p is the protect-o-plate. It is a plastic credit card that is used as id if and when you took your car in for service. It would usually have the vehicles VIN number and the original owners name.
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Old May 15th, 2011, 06:11 AM   #7
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I am trying to gain as much knowledge about this vehicle as I can and am trying to determine if it's a holiday or sports coupe. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
If you're trying to learn as much as possible, it would be a good idea to investigate the paint code on the car. Gray was not an available color for the 4-4-2, but Shadow Gray was for a Chevelle. Is it really silver, or does your car have a special-ordered paint? The paint code will tell us.
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Old May 15th, 2011, 07:03 AM   #8
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there is a metal tag that has numbes stamped into it near on the cowl near the drivers side window under the hood. THat will give you some basic information

year
where it was made
when it was made
color of car
color of interior
and maybe an option or two

If your VIN has an M in it then the car "can" be a W30. If your VIN has another letter in it then it "can't be" a W30. This is because all W30 s were made in Lansing (code M) but non W30s were made there as well.
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Old May 15th, 2011, 08:58 AM   #9
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In the engine compartment right in front of the driver, there should be a tag that looks like this. Click the image to open in full size.

If yours has anything other than dashes near "PNT" that would be the original exterior color code. This particular one is Sebirng Yellow which was a special order color, so that is why there are dashes in the paint code area. If yours has a "14" there, Platinum was the original color. There may be another code with the 14 indicating an upper body color or vinyl top color. Take a photo and post it up for best results.


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Old May 15th, 2011, 09:46 AM   #10
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If yours has anything other than dashes near "PNT" that would be the original exterior color code. This particular one is Sebirng Yellow which was a special order color, so that is why there are dashes in the paint code area.
This is opening up a can of worms, but Sebring Yellow was an extra-cost color, not a special-order color.

I have seen dashes on white cars and numbers on extra-cost color cars. There's more to the story on how Olds handled paint than just assigning dashes to extra-cost colors. :twocents:
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Old May 15th, 2011, 11:57 AM   #11
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This is opening up a can of worms, but Sebring Yellow was an extra-cost color, not a special-order color.

I have seen dashes on white cars and numbers on extra-cost color cars. There's more to the story on how Olds handled paint than just assigning dashes to extra-cost colors. :twocents:
I guess that I should have added "under a majority of circumstances" to my post instead of giving a definitive tone. My bad.

I personally have only seen dashes on this particular car, which I've been made to understand that mostly only happened on Rallye Red, Sebring Yellow, and Aegean Aqua cars. I don't really comb over the cars at the shows, so I have never really given a second thought to the cowl tag markings.

Back to the OP:

I would expect to see a "14" near "PNT" on your cowl tag if, it was originally Platinum from the factory. If the paint is faded platinum silver, it could be seen as gray. Again, pictures would be the best to help you out.

Cheers,
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Old May 15th, 2011, 12:17 PM   #12
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Dave I got to check my cowl tag out. mine was built 11D as well but my sequence number is a lot lower than yours IRC. I have to go out and look for it.

oh never mind, mine was built 11C and is 299XXX so that makes sense, your car is the following week sometime and 10,000 cars later. that would be correct - back to the normally scheduled thread I just highjacked.
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Old May 16th, 2011, 03:33 PM   #13
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For the Original Poster:

Welcome to the world of Olds! In case you're not very familiar with the "W-cars", like your W-30, they are rare and quite valuable. But what makes them so is both factory documentation and special parts.

You say you just had the car towed to a shop. I encourage you at this point to do as little as possible to the car until you learn more about W-30s. Emphasize to the shop to change as little as possible and don't throw anything away! For example, if they were to swap out your carburetor for a rebuilt one in the interest of saving work, that would be a $1500 mistake -- one which you could never correct. Or if they were to throw out any paperwork they find, it might cut the value of the car in half or less. Make the car driveable so you can enjoy it, but do everything you can to keep it original, or at least save the original parts.
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Old May 17th, 2011, 06:23 AM   #14
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Did you take any pictures of the car? I would love to see them. They will also be a good reference for you to make sure the shop maintains the original parts.
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Old May 19th, 2011, 07:03 PM   #15
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I stopped by the shop last week and took some pictures of my car. I wasn't able to look under the hood of the car since it was raised up and the mechanic responsible for my car was unavailable. I plan to stop by again within the next couple of days. As I had mentioned, the car was in storage for over 15 years and was towed directly to the shop. I know that someone had previously mentioned that the 1970 442 did not come in a gray color scheme. I'm thinking that the paint code must be platinum. The car definitely needs a car wash!

As for maintaining the original parts, the mechanic called me recently and told me that he found a leak in both the radiator and gas tank. I told him that I would like those items replaced. Should I also tell him that I want to hang on the the original gas tank and radiator?

Again, I'm a newbie to all of this. Thanks again for all of your advice. Any suggestions are always welcomed!

Check out the link below to view a few pictures of my car.

https://picasaweb.google.com/1161683...98233807320338
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Old May 19th, 2011, 07:26 PM   #16
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Nice car!
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Old May 19th, 2011, 07:58 PM   #17
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Was there a build sheet on the gas tank or stuck to the body?
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Old May 19th, 2011, 09:33 PM   #18
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definitely hang on to those parts, me among many folks are looking for an original radiator. You might want to have the old one rebuilt instead of replacing it.
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Old May 19th, 2011, 09:36 PM   #19
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yes that looks like platinum. That car could be a survier, if not much was done to it over the years I'd get it running without replacing anything or start taking more pictures and post here before you do. Things that seem trivial like those rear drums are original, things like the carb and alternator that years ago were just swapped at the parts store as a core can now be extremely pricey to replace.
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Old May 19th, 2011, 09:46 PM   #20
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well, the rims are not "survivors" at least the back ones aren't as the rims use the snap-on center cap and in 1970 they would be bolt-on center caps. Though the car could have come with poverty caps or SSIs and at some time your dad changed to the SSIIIs as they look silver not dark metallic grey/argent silver.

It also looks like the front inner fender wells are black, should be red if a W30. Can't tell for sure from the pic - the driver side does look like it could be red though.

Are those thick stripes tape. They look taped on but the deck lid looks painted

The far left tail light on the drivers side has also been replaced, the silver trim one should be for a Supreme, 442s are all red like the other 3.

No matter what its a great car and on top of it its your dads. very cool
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Old May 20th, 2011, 10:48 PM   #21
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stevengerard - you definitely have a great eye for detail which has helped me out alot. After looking at my car today, the inner fender wells are indeed red and the black stripes on the side of the vehicle look to be taped on.

While at the shop today, I was able to obtain some extremely valuable documentation from the 442 thanks to all of you. I opened up the glove compartment and found a blue clear plastic pouch which contained the protect-o-plate, owners manual, original vehicle warranty from the dealership, and the original registration paperwork from the department of motor vehicle. Im glad that my father was very meticulous in everything he did.

I added some more pictures to the photo album including the cowl tag.

Thanks again for everyones help.

https://picasaweb.google.com/1161683...98233807320338
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Old May 20th, 2011, 11:22 PM   #22
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Keep the radiator tanks(Harrison) and have it re-cored
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Old May 21st, 2011, 06:59 AM   #23
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wow, nice, definately get it running and don't start replacing a bunch of stuff until you are familiar with it more. The interior looks like a great survivor interior, clean it up and leave it be. Have you found any of the documentation that has proof it is a W30.

Some nice options 4 - speed with console
looks like it has a rear defogger
has the original radio
has the original steering whhel. Lots of folks prefer the sport wheel but yours looks like it is great condition and since it is original I'd keep it. lots of folks think W30s had to have the sports 4-spoke steering wheel but that was an option not everyone went for.

Tough based on the center vents and from what I can see on the heater controls it looks like the car has AC - in 1970 4 speed W30s did not come with AC. Does the car have AC?
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Old May 21st, 2011, 09:30 AM   #24
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Tough based on the center vents and from what I can see on the heater controls it looks like the car has AC - in 1970 4 speed W30s did not come with AC. Does the car have AC?
I don't think that it does, as it has the vent pull ***** over on the passenger side.
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Old May 21st, 2011, 10:27 AM   #25
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I don't think that it does, as it has the vent pull ***** over on the passenger side.
Great catch and they are on the drivers side too. Hmm
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Old May 21st, 2011, 11:32 AM   #26
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Keep the radiator tanks(Harrison) and have it re-cored
I just called the shop and told them that I wanted to keep both the radiator and the gas tank. They already ordered and installed a replacement radiator. I will have the original re-cored and ready to go once the new one fails.

The shop also confirmed that the car does not have air conditioning.
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Old May 21st, 2011, 01:01 PM   #27
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I just called the shop and told them that I wanted to keep both the radiator and the gas tank. They already ordered and installed a replacement radiator. I will have the original re-cored and ready to go once the new one fails.

The shop also confirmed that the car does not have air conditioning.

There may have been a piece of paper on the top of the tank. If so, it will be very important to validate this as a true W-30 car. You may also find one under the rear seat. Don't have just anyone look for it. They may not take proper care to not destroy a 40 year old piece of paper.

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Old May 21st, 2011, 04:00 PM   #28
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There may have been a piece of paper on the top of the tank. If so, it will be very important to validate this as a true W-30 car. You may also find one under the rear seat. Don't have just anyone look for it. They may not take proper care to not destroy a 40 year old piece of paper.

Dave
I didn't know that it would be this difficult to authenticate a 442 w30. To be honest, I thought these cars were fairly common. Since the shop is now closed, I will have to check back in on Monday. They already pulled the gas tank and I saw it at the shop the other day. I did not know about the build/broadcast sheet.

MoGas had mentioned the build sheet in a previous post, but I had no clue as to what he was referring to. Now that I know what it is, I will see if they found that important piece of paper. If they did, they better not have thrown it in the trash!

FINGERS CROSSED!!!
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Old May 21st, 2011, 04:10 PM   #29
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Here's
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Add a Caption


a broadcast card.
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Old May 21st, 2011, 04:27 PM   #30
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This is a build sheet.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg SXbuild.jpg (85.3 KB, 50 views)
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Old May 21st, 2011, 10:25 PM   #31
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This is a build sheet.
Thanks for supplying the pics.
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Old May 22nd, 2011, 06:02 AM   #32
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IF there is a build sheet anywhere in that car, it will almost definitely be extremely fragile, probably in pieces, and possibly adhered to some surface with rust, tar, etc.

EVERYBODY who knows anything about repairing and restoring older GM cars knows what a build sheet is, how important is is to authenticate a rare car, and how difficult it can be to find and preserve it.

If the shop you are using does not know to be on the lookout for a build sheet in the usual locations where it may be found, then you should get your car out of there, because they do not know what they are doing.

YOU don't need to know anything about build sheets, but THEY are being paid to.

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Old May 22nd, 2011, 07:45 AM   #33
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then again if his car has a build sheet, it will be the first W30 I've heard of with a build sheet, a few have had the broadcast cards, many original order information. So don't worry if there isn't a build sheet, from what others have said most if not all cars from Lansing do not have a build sheet.

I would start out by looking in your dads old files if you still have them. If you can find the order form that would be great.
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Old May 22nd, 2011, 08:06 AM   #34
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Fair enough - but if the shop says, "Oh yeah, there was some old paper, but it was all yellowed and torn up, so we threw it out," that would be a sign that they aren't the right place to go.

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Old May 22nd, 2011, 01:05 PM   #35
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then again if his car has a build sheet, it will be the first W30 I've heard of with a build sheet, a few have had the broadcast cards, many original order information. So don't worry if there isn't a build sheet, from what others have said most if not all cars from Lansing do not have a build sheet.

I would start out by looking in your dads old files if you still have them. If you can find the order form that would be great.
Steven, I have not seen the 8.5"x11" build sheet above but do not forget about the "Oldsmobile production code "B" 1970 model" sheet that I sent you when you bought my SX and I also have one for my 1970 W-31, both Lansing built cars. Here is what they look like:

Click the image to open in full size.

I also have the Fisher body broadcast sheet shown above for my W-31 and just this week I was pulling the carpet out of a 1969 Cutlass built in Lansing the broadcast card was under the carpet on the drivers side right in front of where the seat belt retractor bolts to the floor. Hopefully some of this paperwork is in this W-30 to verify its authenticity.
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Old May 22nd, 2011, 07:40 PM   #36
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Cool car.

AGAIN....just to impress upon you the importance of it...DO NOT GET RID OF ANY PARTS PULLED FROM THE CAR!!!

This includes the water pump, carb, alternator, master cylinder (all typical "exchange/core charge" type items an unknowing [or devious type] mechanic may tell you to just swap out with new rebuilt stuff. Most of these parts are UNIQUE TO THIS MODEL AND/OR YEAR....alternator, radiator, etc.

KEEP THE STUFF....DON'T SELL IT....at least not until you have determined if it's the original type equipment for the car. You can determine that here with pics, etc.

Look under the carpet on the D side and P side just inside the door...pull the door sill molding off (the bright aluminum piece) and look around under the carpet. I've found plenty of them in that location.

Don't try cleaning those wheelwells with anything abrasive if you end up trying to get the black paint or undercoating off of them. You can ruin the "look"/finish on them very easily. From the one pic the color on the underside of the wells looks VERY NICE. These red wells are EXTREMELY HARD TO FIND in good condition (repros are available but they aren't exactly like the originals and don't fit that great).

Unless the place you are having it worked on specializes in restoration work I would be very wary of having them do any cosmetic stuff (ie...wheelwells, etc).

If in doubt ASK. You'll get good info here.
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Old May 24th, 2011, 01:23 AM   #37
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I spoke with one of the mechanics while at the shop earlier today and asked him if he had seen a piece of paper attached to the top of the gas tank while it was being removed. He told me that he did not see anything attached to the tank. Whether or not he is being truthful, I wouldn't know. I tried calling the owner of the shop later on in the day to see if he had witnessed anything, but he was not available. I will check back with the owner tomorrow.

I was able to pick up the radiator and will get it re-cored. I also found out that they were not able to find a replacement gas tank so they sent out the original one to have it repaired. I'm glad I 'll be able to keep the original tank.

Once I get the car out of the shop, I will attempt to either find the broadcast or build sheet on my own or take it to a professional as recommended by all of you.

Will keep you all updated! Thanks.
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Old May 24th, 2011, 09:51 AM   #38
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You can order a BRAND NEW reproduction gas tank from RockAuto.com.

The reproduction tanks are made by a company in Canada called "Spectra Premium". These are the tanks many members on this board and thousands of other A-body restorers have been installing for years. They are EXCELLENT and reasonably priced. There may also be cheaper reproduction tanks out there on ebay, etc but the only tank you want is the Spectra Premium, Made in Canada tank. Others are made overseas and are not the same quality, finish, etc.

Cost will be approx $150 + shipping which is pretty reasonable through RockAuto.com.

If your tank is fine and just needs to be cleaned out, redoing it will work. Still, if the cost is the same or more than getting a brand new tank from RockAuto.com you might consider your alternatives.

Your mechanics statement about "can't find a new tank" is what I was getting at, in part.....a lot of these mechanics/shops aren't very aware of what is available, the rarity/value/importance of keeping the original parts, etc....they are repair shops, not restoration shops.

I know that "keeping it all original" is a theme being hammered on in this thread so you may be asking yourself "why is this guy saying replace a part in one response and then saying don't replace parts in another?" --- Well, in the world of these cool cars, replacing a gas tank with a nice repro isn't the same as tossing out your original open face alternator, the somewhat-unique-to-1970 radiator, the original red fenderwells, etc. The tank is not unique in the sense that it's the same tank used on a Cutlass that year and everyone realizes tanks rust out, etc. In other words, nobody is going to raise an eyebrow if they see the tanks been replaced....these days it's very common. If yours can be cleaned out and still look original on the outside then retaining it isn't a bad alternative (depending on what they plan to charge). If, however, they're going to paint the outside, etc, you might as well consider replacing it and get the benefit of having a brand new original look under there instead of some paint/coating they decide to slap on the old tank.

On a '70 car I think it's pretty rare to find anything ON TOP of the gas tank in terms of paperwork. Your best bet is finding broadcast cards in the interior (stuffed in seat springs or under the carpet).
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Old May 24th, 2011, 12:24 PM   #39
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Wow, that is some car & some story. Keep it as original as possible & talk to people & see if you can get a recomendation for a shop that specializes in muscle cars. Its a different animal than a car made today.
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Old May 24th, 2011, 07:31 PM   #40
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Thanks for the repro info on the gas tank 70Post. Seems like a very affordable option.

After speaking with the owner of the shop today, he vaguely remembers that there could have been a piece of paper adhered to the gas tank. But he said that it was no larger than 1.5 by 5.5 inches. He said that it may have had a serial number on it but that the sticker/paper probably contained information related to the gas tank rather than the car. Because he wasn't the one who worked directly with the vehicle, he isnt quite sure if he recalls there being something there.

I wanted to confirm with someone as to whether or not the original gas tank had a sticker/paper adhered to it which had info pertaining to only the gas tank. (Like a parts sticker)

Thanks.
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Old May 24th, 2011, 07:31 PM
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1957 Oldsmobile




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