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I wouldn't run the engine again until I used a borescope to examine those cylinders and see what the interference is.
More than likely the heads need to come off and possibly the engine out to fix whatever the issue is.
agreed..thats the plan. I'm contemplating borrowing a scope this weekend..but knowing me Id look then gameplan how to fix it rather than take it in and have the assembly shop fix it
Been bouncing back and forth on threads, but long story short with switching to non- extended plugs the issue has been resolved. Also picked up a new alternator thinking that was the source of the obnoxious whine that has developed. So I changed the alternator this afternoon, and the whine is still there. After letting it run for a bit, I managed to decyfer its somewhere between the carb and back of the engine. Went ahead and shut it off to verify it wasn't something obvious, and fired it up again and the noise was gone.
In my confusion I took a minute while it was running to record how it sounds on 8 cylinders this time. Still need to dial the timing in After I get that noise taken care of, and make sure the carb is dialed right too..but man were getting close!
Been fighting over the last couple of days trying to narrow down an odd whine that goes away once its' idled down. Pulled the car out of the garage this afternoon because I got tired of the fumes in the garage as I worked. In the process of that, I was reminded how bad the brakes are (at this point I'm assuming its vacuum related) but was able to get it stopped. I then noticed how low I was on fuel, so decided to bleed the master cylinder one more time (each wheel was bled before I left for vacation and that didn't help it) but it still is absolutely terrible. I'm hoping its just the fact that I'm not used to power brakes anymore..but we'll see I suppose.
I did however notice that the longer it ran, the more it labored to restart. That tells me I still need to adjust timing, but I think I actually do have a small vacuum leak still from under the carb. I did some more digging and realized I need to put the gasket that comes with the carb on rather than one of the paper type gaskets that come with the spacers. Hopefully it doesnt make it too tall, but it "should" fix the vacuum issue if there is a slight one from the carb. I also need to replace the rubber grommet on the DS valve cover that the PCV valve plugs into, as well as spread the tabs on the new throttle cable as it is coming out of the firewall. Once the carb is back on, I'll pull it back out of the garage and actually (finally) put a light to it.
As nerve wracking as it was to drive it to the gas station, it was actually a bit of a relief. Hopefully its nice next weekend as well (Im not asking a lot or anything) and I can get those things switched around and try it out before everyone shows up for the kid's bday party.
I thought that's what it was, until I replaced it and the noise is still there.
For a while, it sounded like it was coming from the carb or behind it.. which lines up with the old gasket not looking like it was sealing well.
Sorry, I missed that in the last post. The sound is barely detectable in the video(s) but if it's the one I'm hearing, that's a pretty odd sound for a bad carburetor gasket. I've heard that sound on a lot of GM cars over the last 50 years and always believed it to be worn needle bearings in the alternator ... how about the P/S pump?
Sorry, I missed that in the last post. The sound is barely detectable in the video(s) but if it's the one I'm hearing, that's a pretty odd sound for a bad carburetor gasket. I've heard that sound on a lot of GM cars over the last 50 years and always believed it to be worn needle bearings in the alternator ... how about the P/S pump?
Can you do a video with the phone up front?
This is after its warmed up (taken Saturday) and has gotten much quieter. It seems to be RPM specific though.
After the alternator didn't fix it, and before thinking its carb/gasket..i was considering it being the belts. We stuck the old ones on it when assembling..but then again they didn't look to be in bad shape.
Finally got its first official road test since the spark plug debacle this morning as I drove it to work.
It still needs timing/carb adjustments made, but as I roll in the throttle its fine. The squeal seems to be constant under throttle as well, so more investigation evidently needs done. I'm not ruling out the old belts, but its at least progress. Brakes aren't great, but not as bad as I'd expected either.
I really need to get the exhaust sorted out as it is strong inside the car as well. But that (in addition to the poorly aimed headlights) was a given.
All in all though, I'll call it a win. Its the first time its gone more than 500 feet under its own power in 15+ years.
Got a little overzealous leaving work and decided to try to adjust the stumble out of the carb and ended up making things worse. That being said, I know its close so now that it's back home with tools, I can get it close enough to get through until I can get it to a buddy with a wideband.
also grabbed the #3 plug when I got back home and took a look. Not really sure how to read that. The ground strap makes me think lean, but the threading makes me think it's a little rich.
Heres a quick video I took as I was leaving work..
That looks lean. What adjustments made it worse? Didn't sound too bad in the video.
I gave it more fuel via the idle/air mixture screws, and gave it a couple turns on the accelerator pump. I undid all of that this morning trying to find a happy medium in addition to bringing my timing light and dist. wrench to work and the stumble was much more noticeable on throttle..even during light input/cruising.
Went out at lunch and messed with the timing a bit more as well as the air/fuel/idle trying to get it at least back to where it was yesterday morning before calling Pops as I had to get back to work. He spent another couple hours on it and here's where we're at:
air/fuel mix screws have been adjusted, idle has been bumped up, timing is now currently set at 16 degrees. That got us back to running as it was yesterday. I was warned with the previous Summit carb that I may need to change the vacuum secondary spring, but if everything checks out and I'm still having the issue..I'll address that.
I'm hoping the rain holds off this weekend, and I can get the vacuum gauge hooked up and spend some serious time with it as its going to be above freezing. All I'm really shooting for at this point is getting it baselined well enough to get it to Kettering so my buddy can work his magic with it. (Currently has a stable of 9 second race cars).
Pops did happen to notice the brake hose is collapsing (vacuum line from booster to intake) so that may have some sort of effect on our lack of brakes.
Beyond that, I'm just grateful that I've had 3 decent in town drives and nothing really major happened. I'm always a bit more squirrely knowing I did the work.
Went out this evening and worked a bit on the carb/timing. I leveled out the float levels per the Summit instruction guide for the carb. As well as knocked the fast idle down a tad.
Pulled it out of the garage and hooked the vacuum gauge up trying to chase it that way. Left off at about 1 1/2 turns out on each mix screw, idle set pretty decent (by ear, the tach is a mess) and its currently timed at 14°. The bog is still there when giving it throttle, but then it takes off hard. I took it to get fuel and had an issue getting it restarted. Once again, by the time it got home I could barely make it up the driveway. When I got it in the garage, it diesels a little bit. The most vacuum I was able to get out of it was 9 Hg. As I rev it up it does spike a bit before dropping out, but I didn't think idling at 2500 RPM was the best option.
I pulled the dist card back out, it notes base idle 10-12, and vacuum advance is at 14. Am I going the wrong way chasing vacuum as I continue to advance the timing? I feel like honestly I'm overthinking this whole thing as I've not had issues previously dialing things in.
Short update on the box issue.. made a phone call to cutlassefi to help get me reset back and it's running better than ever. Now to track down my lack of vacuum.
I also noticed a few other things needing addressed. First, I'm going to need to reroute the trans cooler hoses, as they're rubbing between the radiator and the support. It's only a matter of time until I spring a trans fluid leak on the hot radiator. I also noticed my PS front shock isn't mounted correctly. Not sure what happened, but I have an idea. I also need to take the back wheels off as it sounds like the hardware in the drums is just rolling around inside.
my list is pretty decent, but its so dang close to being done.
Evidently I didn't update this like I thought I had.
I drove it to work on Tuesday (day after previous update) and it actually had its first moment of kickdown and launch when putting my foot to the floor. Tried to chase vacuum while at lunch at work and couldn't get anywhere, though I did finally hear a bit of a whistle. Decided to reset to where I was before going to work and went out to just drive it around the lot. I got to the back of the lot and figured I'd try to see how it launches, well that turned into a bog which upon overcoming that turned into 2 nice strips in the parking lot. Sorry, not sorry..ha!
The biggest win though came after work. I drove it to the church for Worship practice and when I walked in my wife said they could hear me pull in the lot-its a block building that is pretty air tight..so that was exciting. But when we left, I took my daughter home in it (its just a block away) so she finally got to ride in "the garage car". All I've wanted during this entire process is to get it done so we can cruise as a family. Sure, car shows are great, showing off is awesome..but I just want to enjoy the simple thing of having my wife and kid in there and we drive up to the DQ and get some ice cream or something of that nature.
I'm okay with shutting it down for the season now..I've at least semi-checked an important box.
I'm okay with shutting it down for the season now..I've at least semi-checked an important box.
Yep, best to go out on a high note -- then you'll be keen to get at it come springtime. The 1.5 feet of snow we have on the ground here tell me I'm in the same boat as you. I'm about done with this climate change thing.
Yep, best to go out on a high note -- then you'll be keen to get at it come springtime. The 1.5 feet of snow we have on the ground here tell me I'm in the same boat as you. I'm about done with this climate change thing.
I never have been a fan of the snow. It got worse when I started working in trucking/logistics. The only bright spot I've had over the last few years was last year installing tow hooks to my truck and making the joke that I'd use it to pull the semis in the parking lot..then actually having to do so..haha!
Alright, after trying a few more things this weekend I think I'm going to throw in the towel and send it off to the shop that built the engine. Before I get that done, I'll probably go ahead and get all the little things sorted out on it (front shock, rebuild rear brakes as it sounds like the adjusting screw is rolling around, align headlight, change mirror, etc). Based on schedules, I may even have the rear quarter fixed and exhaust on before sending it in.
That being said, even though I'm down a way's on vacuum it still runs pretty dang rowdy. I can't wait to experience it when its closer to 90-100%
Been trying anything and everything I can think of to build vacuum, and unfortunately I'm still stuck around 8 inches of vacuum. Everyone who has looked at the cam sheet has said the vacuum issue is the cam..so if that is indeed the case, then maybe I need to look into a vacuum pump/amplifier. I also know that this will necessitate a change in Power Valves, which would address the slight off-idle stumble. I do plan on having it dyno'd and have found a place that 'should' be able to accommodate that.
Now, the reason for the first statement is that because I can't leave well enough alone, I now have more work to do. Since I started driving it around, I'd heard what sounded like the adjusting screw rolling around in the drum. I took Dad out Friday for a cruise around and he said it sounded to him that the drums were tight on the shoes and just needed to wear in. Well, Saturday I took a buddy out and was thrashing on it to make sure it'd shift (ensuring it had enough vacuum to properly operate the trans module) and when I got off of the gas and started giving it brake, it shook and started banging. Our first thought was that maybe the wheel had come loose again, but upon checking and they were tight..we're now thinking maybe the shoes came off. I don't know if everything was checked when the wheel fell off the first time, but I do remember it was a struggle to get everything installed and tight when putting the back brakes back together.
Fortunately, the same buddy has a lift at his house..so I may just set up a Saturday where he picks the car up and we just go out there and address all the things.
Its gonna be a busy winter, but knowing that its close and knowing about what all needs buttoned up gives me the motivation to get it done.
Uh, a lift is nice for sure but a simple jack is sufficient to lift the car enough to remove the wheel and inspect the brakes.
Agreed, we did everything at the house with a jack and jack stands..but since then I added half of another car behind the Olds, so I don't really have that much room. That and the lift will allow me to address rear brakes and front shock all at the same time
Gotcha. I thought it was just one rear wheel that needed to be inspected. Excellent idea to check as much as you can while you have the opportunity.
So what’s this about half of a car? Another Olds or ???
I'm not sure which side, so I figure why not check both to be safe.
Dad has my old Dodge, and was planning on basically finishing it up. Well, when the Olds went on for the freeze plug, he finally got a good chunk of the parts picked up with the idea that since the garage was available he'd bring the Dodge over and we'd bust it out.. but then he blew himself up.
Now, thanks to SSI being an absolute joke these parts are sitting here until we install them to get the car sold so he can pay bills. Though, we still need to get a few other things to allow us to install everything.. but the SSI situation in preventing that
Spent way longer over the weekend than I should have fighting getting the DS rear wheel off, but last night I finally got the last lug nut free. Pulled the drum off and was welcomed by this..
I feel like I'm missing a spring, which would explain why the adjusting screws were so dang loose to begin with. I'm also wondering why it looks like a torch was taken to the drum. I'm going to verify the lugs to make sure they're not not boogered up while rebuilding everything again..then move over to the other side.
That explains the sounds but where is the brake cylinder? You pulled it out already?
Steve
You're talking the wheel cylinder, correct? Ive not pulled anything apart, or even taken a good look at it further than removing the drum. I'm assuming it's just hiding behind the hub based on the angle of the picture.
The brake cylinder is still visible in the photo. You can see it just behind the top of the axle. Yes, there seems to be a spring missing from just above the adjusater. Looks to be missing other parts and assembled wrong as well.
Yes, there seems to be a spring missing from just above the adjusater. Looks to be missing other parts and assembled wrong as well.
Agreed. This was the side that dropped when the wheel fell off. I'm not sure if he ever went back and checked the guts to make sure everything stayed in place, but I also know the adjuster screws were extremely loose when we put everything together..
There's a reason I'd always tried to avoid drum brakes..ha!
Definitely missing the adjuster spring. At least that is a simple and inexpensive repair.
I just read through your entire build. Great job sticking with it and not just tossing in the towel. By the way, it does not count if you thought about it!!! It is also nice to see someone else does not have a 50 car garage to work in.
As a know-nothing high school kid I had enough sense to do one side at a time so I was able to disassemble and reassemble drum brakes correctly. Have people regressed this much over time?
As a know-nothing high school kid I had enough sense to do one side at a time so I was able to disassemble and reassemble drum brakes correctly. Have people regressed this much over time?
The first time things were disassembled and reassembled, it was one side at a time and pictures were taken for reference.
The second time, not nearly as detailed pictures were taken and everything was placed in the drum and stuck on the bench until the axle returned and was installed.
The other thing to remember, a wheel fell off while it was driving (specifically, this one). While the adjusting screw did seem kinda loose during install, being slammed on the ground surely didn't help matters. I am not sure if it was rattling around prior to that incident, as my first "drive" was well after the fact.
Sorry for the tone of the previous comment, I thought someone else had done the brakes and didn't put it together correctly. You did what I would do these days with digital pictures.
Reading what was done above made me wonder if the adjusters weren't fully tightened after installing the drums. I usually install the drum, grab the drum and rock it around to center the shoes, then tighten the adjusters through the slot on the backing plate to achieve the right amount of clearance. After tightening the adjuster the drum should be fairly much held in place and I wouldn't think parts would come loose.
I once lost a rear wheel on the interstate, so welcome to that club!
Last edited by Fun71; December 28th, 2022 at 08:53 AM.
Sorry for the tone of the previous comment, I thought someone else had done the brakes and didn't put it together correctly. You did what I would do these days with digital pictures.
Reading what was done above made me wonder if the adjusters weren't fully tightened after installing the drums. I usually install the drum, grab the drum and rock it around to center the shoes, then tighten the adjusters through the slot on the backing plate to achieve the right amount of clearance. After tightening the adjuster the drum should be fairly much held in place and I wouldn't think parts would come loose.
I once lost a rear wheel on the interstate, so welcome to that club!
All good, no offense taken.
The adjusters were wicked loose when installed, I do remember that..but if I remember correctly the drums were also pretty snug on there. It'd been a while though, so I'm still slightly fuzzy. I just remember Pops and I fighting for space on the PS of the car based on the lack of room in my garage..ha!. And again, I'm not sure things were checked after the wheel fell off. For all I know, things could have been correct until it dropped onto the pavement.
I do know I'm going to be super paranoid about the wheels though. After taking them off, you can see where they had been wobbling before finally coming off. I'll have to look to see what the torque spec is for aftermarket aluminum wheels. Typically I turn until I can't anymore, but being correct will help me with peace of mind for sure.
I'll have to look to see what the torque spec is for aftermarket aluminum wheels. Typically I turn until I can't anymore, but being correct will help me with peace of mind for sure.
I would find it incredible if your aluminum wheels demonstrate ANY variance from what is published in the 1969 Oldsmobile CSM. It isn't the wheel itself which should vary in torque since it's the lug bolts and lug nuts which hold the wheel to the hub. The torque value for the wheels (lug nuts) on my '71 CS is 80 lb-ft, I'm guessing yours is same.
EDIT: You're most likely going to encounter a statement for your aluminum wheels which states something similar to "Torque wheels to vehicle manufacture specifications" (if you find a statement at all).
Last edited by Vintage Chief; December 28th, 2022 at 03:51 PM.
I would find it incredible if your aluminum wheels demonstrate ANY variance from what is published in the 1969 Oldsmobile CSM. It isn't the wheel itself which should vary in torque since it's the lug bolts and lug nuts which hold the wheel to the hub. The torque value for the wheels (lug nuts) on my '71 CS is 80 lb-ft, I'm guessing yours is same.
EDIT: You're most likely going to encounter a statement for your aluminum wheels which states something similar to "Torque wheels to vehicle manufacture specifications" (if you find a statement at all).
I wasn't sure based on material differences. I think my issue came from not making sure the lugs were centered. I've seen a few others around the interwebs have similar issues and that be the culprit.
I walked by the car this evening and something caught my eye sitting on top of a shoe..
so needless to say it was quite destructive in there.
October 28th, 2022, 08:50 AM
