Pain in the Ass problem that confuses me

[American Lead]

Alright here it goes,
I got the starter and everything hooked up yesterday and i couldn't get it to turn over (shitty battery) and so i took the plugs out and tried to turn it over I can get it to slowely turn but the car seems to lurch foreward when i do this, there is no fluid in the transmission and it is in neutral... what the hell is going on? I think my battery has enough of a charge (measures 14 volts) but it only comes to a groaning hault after a second or 2.... brand new engine rebuilt... is this normal? Should i get a few more batteries and hook em up parellel or take a 6 in series to get 20v and kick it over with that? What should i do to get it started.... with the plugs in it barely even budges. i dont know what category this should be under so i put it here since i have no clue if it's the motor or transmission...

Robert

[Oldsmaniac]

Just be cause the battery reads 14 volts does not mean it has enough ampacity to turn the engine....you say the battery is crap so get a new one. What condition is the starter?....maybe that is weak too. What about ground to block and battery cables and solenoid? Was the engine assembled properly??....You should be able to turn it by hand with a socket wrench or breaker bar and a socket on the balancer bolt.

[Bluevista]

The car lurches forward?
There's something going on with your tranny if it does that. It's sounds like the starter is trying to move the car and just stops. I would pull the driveshaft just to be safe, make absolutely sure it's in park or neutral and try it, if it turns over easier you know it's something with the trans. It should crank over with no problem with a good battery and starter. Did it turn ovr by hand okay before it was in the car or hooked up to the trans?

[joe_padavano]

The first question is, what car and what trans? It sounds like this is an automatic? If it's a TH350 or TH400 or newer, even with the trans in drive the car won't lurch forward with the starter because the engine needs to be turning fast enough to generate hydraulic pressure in the trans. If it is lurching, you have something stuck inside the trans.

[rocketraider]

It's a Dual Range HydraMatic. My guess is there's something going on with the rear pump. You're sure it's physically in neutral, and not stuck in a forward range?

Since these things use reverse as a parking mode, you're sure it's not stuck in R?

I think you need to get some fluid in there too, because if the engine starts and the pumps have nothing to pump, it will burn them up quickly. Ask yourself do you want to take all those torus bolts loose again...

[American Lead]

Hi... It dosen't really lurch foreward.... I only noticed it when i had one foot on the ground the car rolls foreward about 1/2 inch.... it's in neutral and i must add it's much harder to push.... it took 3 of us to get it in the garage but i think it's from the extra weight of the drive shaft and the improperly adjusted bands... Tomorrow afternoon when i'm back from my friends i'll jump it and see if it will turn over better. But correct me if i'm wrong, when the trans is in neutral the on;y thing moveing is the flywheel and the transmision part... none of the bands or planet gears or anything should be moveing right? And could it have anything to do with the fact the motor is brand new .060 over? The starter was OK before it came apart so it should be fine.... What would the rear pump do to anything if it's in neutral? I didn't think anything moved inside if it's in neutral and there not even fluid on the fins to turn anything so I thought it could just turn freely. I was also thinking the little tit on the front of the transmsiison may have gotten a bit offcenter when we took the transmission out and mabye it's rubbin on the hole in the crankshaft causeing it to move foreward but with the torque the starter has on the flywheel that should not keep if from turning over.... it might account for it moving foreward but after i start it up for a few seconds that should settle back into place i'd think. i can turn over the motor with a socket but it was very hard to but it's ok.... it just has alot of compression. It had 100pi before i took the motor out and i could spin the balancer with the fan and belt but now theres no chance in hell of doing that. ANyway i'm starting to speak things that i'm thinking so i'd better quit before i confuse anyone...

Thanks for all your guys's help,
Robert

[American Lead]

Oh, and it's not stuck in reverse it coasts down the driveway after a few people push it to give it a starting roll

[70oldsW30]

Of course, you should make sure that the battery, cables and terminals are all good (you say the starter is good) before thinking past them to anything else. However, if that is where you are then you might check that the torque converter was properly seated all the way down in the transmission. If it wasn't then it will have the flexplate pushed out of shape to some degree and though I have not experienced it myself I can imagine the possiblity that it could bind the starter up enough to effect its operation. Anyway ... just a thought. You really want to make sure the converter is all the way down before the car starts to avoid damage to the transmission.

[American Lead]

Hi,
Yes i'm sure the torque convertor ws seated perfectly because if it wasn't the lock ring would not fit on the shaft right, and plus when it was all together it spun perfectly in neutral then i just bolted it up to the motor and threw it in. Is it a possability my motor is hard to start just because it needs to be broken in fron the rebuild?

Robert

[70oldsW30]

Yes, but only in combination with some weakness in the starting system. A rebuilt motor should not be tight enough to defeat a properly functioning starting system. Of course, I live in Texas. I don't suppose it is 20 below where you are, eh?

[d2_willys]

Is it possible that the front half (driven member) of the torus is hanging up on the flywheel and trying to drive the rear wheels. I would definitely take the driveshaft out or jack one of the rear wheels up off the ground and try cranking the engine and see if the output shaft is turning.

The front band is applied when the engine is off (and released after pump pressure comes up after engine is started). Torus cover, which is attached to the flywheel drives the front planetary which is then driving the torus drive member at a lower speed. The driven member then transmits power to the rear planetary.

I will try and attach the diagram of the hydramatic showing the power flow and band/clutch apply/release hopefully tonight and will also point out what I am trying to describe (driven torus member).

It may also be possible that you have the check valve (in between the two torus halves) in wrong. I will also try and supply a diagram of that too.

[Willidog]

Don't know much about your tranny but I had a problem after installing my th350. Started the car, ran the car in the driveway for testing for a couple of days. Car only seemed like it had park and drive, found out the hard way that it didn't have park. I was revvingg the car up kind of high in the RPM range one day and the car jumped forward. Found out that the "S" clip had become disconnected and the the selector valve was setting in low 2nd the whole time, just that when I thought I was putting the car in park, the park pin was engaging but the car wasn't in park. After I hit a high enough RPM one day the park pin let go allowing the car to lurch forward, after I let off the gas (I was standing beside the car in the driveway) the RPM's dropped off and the park pin reingaged stopping the car. That's when I dropped the transmission pan and found the "S" clip hanging from one side of the selector valve.