Hi

[Tusses]

Just a quick note to say Hi to everyone.

I just bought a 67 Toronado. Its is the only one I have seen in the UK so I know very little about it.

1st off, how do you pronounce TORONADO ?

2nd Are the engines specific to the toro or will any big block olds fit ?

I bought mine as non running. Its runs ok, but after about 5 or 10 miles it cuts out as if its starving, indeed, the level in the fuel filter drops right down. Anyhow, because of this I bought it as a non runner with a price to match

I have a problem with the lights which I have put down to the vacuum actuator, if I hook the vac line up directly the lights come up ok.

We dont have vacuum on our british cars so this is all new to me too ! Are there any online diagrams of the vac system ?

that'll do for now !

TIA

Rich

[Oldsguy]

Rich,
Welcome to the site. Sorry for the delay as I couldn't get into the site last week . Anyway, the mechanical fuel pump may be your problem, or if the car has sat a while there may be debris in the bottom of the fuel tank which is clogging the "sock" type filter on the fuel pickup. I would check the pump first as it is easier to access. Front of engine, passenger side of timing chain cover about halfway down. It his held on by two bolts; one on top, one on bottom, if you have to replace it. I think there was a recent post where I described how to do it.

http://www.classicoldsmobile.com/vb/...ent-455-a.html

Pronounciation is first O is long, secon O is short, similar to the British pronounciation of tomato.

Concerning you headlight doors, you may have a vaccum leak or faulty vacuum canister or lines, it may be the size of a coffee can or a little smaller and has two vaccum lines to it; one input, on output. It stores vaccum from the manifold to enable smooth operation of accessories. Often air plenum doors for the ventilation system are operated by vaccum as well. Try tracing out the vaccum lines from the headlight doors back to the source, you may find the culprit.

Good luck restoring your Oldsmobile and enjoy it!

[Tusses]

Hi Dan

Thanks for your reply.
I have it running a little better now. I cleaned the carb and enriched the mixture. I haven't taken it out yet - waiting until tomorrow when the insurance agents open after easter. - the fuel filter level still drops. I will take it out for a run tomorrow and see. will look at the pump too.
I have traced the vac line to and from the light switch and they are ok. I have a feeling its the vac control/switch thingy that is next to the vac tank. Are these controllers servicable ?

Here is a link to my cars .. the first couple are the toro.

http://www.handmade-uk.com/cars.html

Rich

[coldfire]

Wow, it looks really clean. Good find! Hope you get it working properly soon!

Hi by the way

[Oldsguy]

Rich,

Looks to me like you love vehicles. The Toro is by far the nicest (what would you expect me to say?). That old volvo is interesting though, looks kinda sleek and sexy, sort of like an Avanti. Yes, the control panel may be your problem, anywhere in the system where a leak could develop.....I know of people that rebuild/re-furbish old tube radios and such but not sure about vaccum systems. That is a tuffy, but good luck.

[Tusses]

First of all - Hi coldfire !

now down to the real post .....

Well - its been a disapointing anti-climax today

Got my insurance so took the toro out round the block.

I bought it as a non runner and got 500 quid off my first offer becuase it would drive for a bit and cut out.

I had it running lovely on the drive and was optomistic when I got insured and took it out for a test.

Sure enough, half way round it died. (it wasnt the fuel pump as the fuel filter was full ! ) waited a minute and it started up again. next time it died it struggle to turn over and the battery was failing. I called wifey to come with jump leads, but this made no difference the starter wouldnt budge. I tried turning the engine by pulling the pulley belts and it was tight. I tried the starter again this time - no click from the solenoid. So off I send wifey to get some rope and we towed it home.

I tried jumping the main lead to the solenoid terminal with a spanner, but nothing.

I already ordered the workshop manual from the states so I will wait for that to come. before I get drastic.

I have a feeling I will need to tear down the engine - rings and head gasget - just a feeling. It got hot quick and there was a petrolly steamy smell from the engine breather.

We will see - I got 500 GBP to play with !

Rich - fed up !

[Tusses]

Just thinking ahead ...

If i do have to tear down the engine , is there anything I can bolt in to run around with whilst I rebuild the 425 ? or is the toro engine the only one that will fit ?

Rich

[Tusses]

So - morning all .

Today's a new day.

Just put the battery on charge and noticed water in the fuel filter. I dont know how long the car has been standing and didn't think to check the fuel !

Lets hope thats all it is !

Is there a drain plug on the tank ? I will looksee.

Still got to sort the starter out.

Rich

[Oldsguy]

Well, contaminated fuel will do it. No there is no drain plug but you can disconnnect the fuel line and drain most of the fuel that way. Of course you may have rust in your tank and it would be a good idea to check that out. You may have to do a complete tank removal. About the smell from the breather, that MIGHT indicate a blown head gasket, which would associate with the engin overheating. How does the radiator fluid smell and look? A compression check would help there. Sounds like common problems with the older cars, you are well on your way to conquering them though. Good luck.

[Tusses]

Thanks for the encouragment Dan.

I took the starter off and its burnt out. I'v ordered a new one, will be here friday.
Cant do alot without a starter so maybe I will look at the fuel / tank.

Rich

[jdorour]

Rich,
Welcome. Toronado is pronounced Tour-O-na-dough not Tour-a-na-dough.
The engine in your car should be a 425CID (7.0L) 385HP (SAE Gross). The Toronado engine shares the same engine block as the other big Oldsmobiles (Ninety Eight, Starfire and 88) but has specific intake manifold and cam shaft. The exhaust manifolds and accessory prackets are also specific to the Toronado. The cylinder heads are the same as those used on the 442 and Starfire (big valves).
The 400CID, 425CID and 455CID engines are the same external dimension and will fit in the car if you install all of the Toronado specific external parts. It sounds like you have a minor fuel problem and will not need to change any major parts.

Trivia...
The 425CID wngine was introduced in 1965 to replace the old 394CID. It was rated at:
300HP with 2bbl Carb and Low Compression pistons (88)
310HP with 2bbl Carb and High Compression Pistons (88)
360HP with 4bbl Carb and High Compression (Ninety Eight, Optional on 88)
370HP with 4bbl Carb, HC and Big Valves (Starfire, Optional Ninety Eight, 88)

In 1966 Olds introduced the QudraJet 4bbl Carb in place of the old 4Jet and the horse power ratings on the 4bbl engines went up 5 horse power. The ratings on the 2bbl engines stayed the same. Olds also introduced the Toronado in 1966 at 385HP. Basically it is the Starfire engine with the 442 cam shaft. 1967 engine ratings are tha same as 1966.

[Tusses]

Hi jdorour

Thanks for the info. It has rained constantly since my last post, until today.

I installed the new starter, so I can now continue tracing the problem.

I also fitted a new fuel filter that is cleanable :-). If its dry tomorrow I will see if I can empty the tank and wash it out. The fuel pump seems like it might be blocked too (do they have a built in filter ? ). I will take it off and see if it can be cleaned. If not, I may consider an electric pump - any problem with this idea ?

My other problem is the lights. They dont go up and down ! I have traced it to the vacuum valve. If I open it manually the lights rise, when I close it they fall. When I have opened it manually they will stay up, and if I swithch the lights off the valve will move and they go down. - so it is sticking in the closed position. Are these valves a common component ? Can I use somthing from another car ?

Rich

[jdorour]

Rich,
I am not an expert on the Toronado but I will try to help...

If you put an electric fuel pump on the car make sure that you get one that is limited to 5PSI output. The factory pumps typically fail totaly. If you are getting fuel sometimes I would say that you have water and/or trash in the tank that is pluging the brass sock on the pickup tube in the tank. The only filter from the factory is in the carb where the fuel line screws into the body of the carb. There is no filter in the pump. There is a brass filter sock in the tank. Ther is no drain plug in the tank - only one way to do it... Pull the tank.

The vacuum switch was the same for 1966 and 1967. I have heard that the switch in the 1968 and 1969 can be used. The switch in the 67 and 68 Eldorado may also work. You may also check these cars 1968 and 1969 Camaro RS, 67 - 70 Riviera and 68 to 80 Corvette. I am not sure if they are the same or if they can be made to work. Check EBAY you may find one for the Toro.

John

[mikkim129]

Just water in the tank? no rust? If so not too bad. I had a old truck with rust and the same problems. Took the tank to my radiator guy. Got it dipped and coated for just over $50. problem solved. Good luck

[Tusses]

Took the fuel tank out today and rinsed it out. Good and clean now. The internal filter is knacked though so I will add an new filter before the pump.

Got it all painted up and drying ready to refit tomorrow.

There was about a pint of water in the bottom of the tank !!!

I will blow the fuel lines through before I plumb it all back in.

I have got (today) the reprinted GM workshop manual (the proper one ! ) now so I can start putting back what has been 'chopped' out over the years.

The first thing I have noticed is the two vacuum pipes to the healight lock valve that holds the hlights in the up position, is missing.

Keeping you posted - Rich

[Oldsguy]

Wow, this is a good thread. I am enjoying following it. Rich, that water was your culprit then, glad you found it and are on the way to correcting your problem, the headlight doors as well! Mikim, I had that done to a tank for my '69 once, for about the same price, it's good to have local talant to help with those kinds of things, but that is really a different subject and dont' want to hijack this thread. Jdorour, it's great to have your experience and help, as I was reading all the stats you listed I was thinking to myself "right, right, I remember that, etc" but I sure as heck could'nt come up with all that the way you did, good work.

[Tusses]

It wouldn't be hijacking as it is very relevent to anyone who may read this in the future ! I found it usefull as I knew you can get them treated but wouldnt have thought about going to a radiator guy ! I have one up the road I could try somtime. You can get repair kits where you pour in the coating and swill it around and empty any surplus, I think POR15 do somthing too.

As it happend mine was quite shiney inside (from what I could see through the gauge hole ) all I could see was what I assume to be the filter in bits - I tried to fish it out but at appears to still be attached to the end of the pickup pipe ! It was like a cloth gause. (this might cause me problems in the future)
Also the filler pipe seems to go inside the tank with a lip on the bottom so you cant empty it completely by tipping it upside down. I had to put a cloth in through the gauge hole to soak up the last and fish it out again.

The filler neck was rusty at the top, probably from condensation, an I am guessing that this is the rust that ended up in the lines and filter.

I cleaned it up with a wire brush - rinsed the tank out with water - blew it dry with an air line - and sprayed it with Hammerite paint.

I painted the outside of the tank with underbody seal. I will do the same under the back of the car whilst the tank is out (easy to get at it now ).

and guess what .... its raining again today :-(

Rich

[Oldsguy]

Sounds like you did the right thing Rich. Rain, rain, go away, come again another day.......

[Tusses]

It dried up !!



Today I blew the fuel lines out and put the tank back in. filled with some fresh fuel and off she went

Did a 5 mile round trip to start with, no problems The revs dropped off a bit when it warmed up and it stalled once at a stop in drive. In neutral it started up again no problem. I am happy today

tomorrow I will start on the ignition system.

Rich

[Tusses]

Well - I went out yesterday. Its getting better, but not right.
Put a new set of plugs in, seem to get more power now - can spin the wheels real easy :-)
It's really nice to drive when it works !

Still got a problem getting fuel from the tank to the carb.

I tried an electric fuel pump, and had the same symptoms - somtimes it would pump fuel, somtimes none was coming through. I ended up driving home (slowly) with a petrol can under the hood. I pulled the fuel line from the tank and put it in the can, as a temp fuel supply.

I am guessing the filter in the tank, which I know is in pieces - but cant get it off the pickup tube, is blocking the pickup line somtimes.

I will do some more checks today, then back to the drawing board.

Some options I am thinking abou are drilling a hole and adding a new fuel line to the other side of the tank (carfully ! ) or , I have a spare tank for a firebird, I am wondering if I can make that fit ?

Will let you know !

Rich

[Tusses]

Well - I went out yesterday. Its getting better, but not right.
Put a new set of plugs in, seem to get more power now - can spin the wheels real easy :-)
It's really nice to drive when it works !

Still got a problem getting fuel from the tank to the carb.

I tried an electric fuel pump, and had the same symptoms - somtimes it would pump fuel, somtimes none was coming through. I ended up driving home (slowly) with a petrol can under the hood. I pulled the fuel line from the tank and put it in the can, as a temp fuel supply.

I am guessing the filter in the tank, which I know is in pieces - but cant get it off the pickup tube, is blocking the pickup line somtimes.

I will do some more checks today, then back to the drawing board.

Some options I am thinking abou are drilling a hole and adding a new fuel line to the other side of the tank (carfully ! ) or , I have a spare tank for a firebird, I am wondering if I can make that fit ?

Will let you know !

Rich

Oh yeah ....

DONT USE HAMMERITE INSIDE YOUR TANK !!! petrol disolves it !

[Tusses]

Oh yeah ....

DONT USE HAMMERITE INSIDE YOUR TANK !!! petrol disolves it !

[Oldsguy]

When you mentioned using the hammerite I thought about that but then figured you meant the OUTSIDE of the tank. And you had done it already anyway...I would recommend finding a shop that repairs fuel tanks/radiators and asking them for assistance. They have all the right tools, jigs, facilities to clean up and repair your tank. You have already had if off the car already anyway so it shouldn't be too difficult to take it off again and have that done. Good luck.

[Tusses]

I might make some inquiries to get the tank looked at.

In the mean time I came up with the idea of drilling the top of the tank gauge sender and putting a pickup pipe down into the tank. I joined it at the top with a ruber hose to make the right angle bend, then some more copper pipe over the top of the tank and down to where the orignal outlet is. I blocked off the original and switched the feed over. It drove ok for a bit, then it starved for fuel. I can only guess that the sock filter in the tank is still falling apart and blocking the pipes. Now I have this setup I might try a spare tank in the trunk - try to eliminate all other posibilities before I take the tank out again.


btw I sprayed just inside the filler neck with the hammerite where it had rusted. I dont know why, but I had the idea hammerite was petrol resistant ?
Obviously not !

Rich

[Oldsmaniac]

It is very likely the sock on the end of the pickup tube is the problem....a fast check is to get a pointed stiff wire and push thru the tube untill it punctures the sock....the socks cannot be cleaned and are destroved when trying to remove anyway.....Also too the filter on the carburator can cause this problem or a bad float or needle/seat assembly inside the carburator.....

[Tusses]

When I took the tank off I could see the sock in shreds. I tried to pull some out but they were still attached to the pipe !

Rich

[Oldsguy]

Yeah, I really think that is your major problem. But consider also that most fuel tanks are vented and if you do not have proper venting on the tank it will become a vacumm as the pump tries to suck fuel, making it ever so harder to draw fuel the longer it runs. Just a thoght

[Tusses]

Yeah - I thought about the vent thing, but 'A' I havent fitted a new gasket to the tank gauge, and 'B' the 1st thing I did was loosen the petrol cap anyway !.

Today I am even more confused.

I went and bought the biggest fuel filter I could find that would fit through the tank gauge hole.
I cut the end off so there is about 1 1/2" of open filter that the fuel can get into. The other end I connected to my pickup tube I added yesterday.

I drove for about 15 miles, 30- 40 miles per hour was ok, if I floored the gas it didn't get enough fuel and would die (but not stall)

When I got back I checked the filter in the tank and it was clean !!! ????
I expected bits of the old filter to be in there !

I had connected the stock pump back up. so that leaves the pump or the carb ? I thought perhaps the float level set too low ?

Anyhow - I will get a carb rebuild kit as I dont know what condition it's in.
(its an edelbrock (carter) 1407 (750))

This is REALLY frustrating !!!! at least I know I can go out and get back without breaking down .

but I want to go out and see what this new baby will do !!!!!!!!!

oh yeah ... I did some rewiring today to get all the lights and turn signals working. oh this car is going to be fun (not) The wiring diagram shows how it should be ! - but not how it IS :-( I had to run a new wire to the back lights as a temp fix cuz the orig wiring has been chopped about