hullinger

After tons of research and more time with and reading the vacuum gauge, I'm beginning to think I have late valve timing. I've got low power, poor idle, crazy timing and vacuum reading of about 12.

My Chilton's manual says I need to remove the engine to replace the timing chain. Can that be true? I can't fathom removing the engine on an educated hunch that the timing chain needs correcting.

Chris

Ozzie

I've removed mine with the engine in place, but you will have to remove the front cover which is a bit of a job. If you'd like to check the valve timing with the cover in place pages 6B-28 and 6B-29 of the 1966 Oldsmobile Chassis Service Manual describes the procedure. Also, if you remove the cover I might suggest replacing the cam gear with an all metal variety if it hasn't already been done.

MDchanic

There's your first mistake.
Chilton's is by far the worst, shot through with errors and omissions.
Throw it out and get a proper Chassis Service Manual.
Until you get a paper one, you can download a copy for free from WildAbout Cars.

No, it can't.

Just pull your fan, fan shroud, radiator, water pump, vibration damper, timing cover, and fuel pump, and the timing chain is right there.

- Eric

rocketraider

The chassis manual will tell him the same thing. Anything that involves removing the timing cover or oil pan on a Toronado is an engine pull due to the way the front engine mount is designed. Believe me when I tell you it's as simple to do that as to try to fumble around and support the front of the engine without the mount.

Chilton Professional Trades Edition manuals are often taken word for word from the factory stuff complete with pics and diagrams. Motor's are also excellent.

Haynes are the worst IMHO.

MDchanic

Oops didn't realize it was a Toronado.

The Chilton's trades edition may be good, but the consumer version that everybody usually has is crap.

I agree, Motor is excellent, abd usually has some things the factory manuals don't, like tables of distributor numbers, with specs, for multiple years and models

- Eric

Ozzie

Ditto on the Toronado issue. Page 6EB-3 of the 1966 Olds Chassis Service Manual indicates that to remove the Toronado engine's front cover first the engine and oil pan should be removed (unfortunately). Please forgive my initial response. I didn't know it was a Toronado.

MDchanic

Well, since there is absolutely no mention of it being a Toronado in the thread before RocketRaider's comment, and no information on the OP's Profile page, I think you can be forgiven.

Looks like RocketRaider's got a crystal ball or sumthin'.

- Eric

TripDeuces

The front engine mount on a Toronado bolts to the front of the block over the timing cover just below the water pump. You're looking at an easy 4-5 inches the block would have to be raised to clear that mount. Although it's been a long time since I removed my engine in my Toronado I'm wondering if the mount can just be removed from the frame and block with the engine supported underneath.

hullinger

Guys, thanks for your input on this. This '66 Toronado is my first Oldsmobile that I just bought and was delivered last week. I spent a few hours trying to diagnosis the low power, low vacuum and wildly off timing and I've concluded the timing gear problem. I've been extremely aggravated that the out-of-state seller did not disclose the problem and left it for me to figure out. Now, it seems, I have a huge repair bill or many weeks of work ahead of me to fix.

TripDueces: I had the same idea of just raising the engine a bit to get the oil pan and timing cover off. It seems the process and effort is the same either way.

Ozzie/Eric etal: No problem about not knowing it's a Toronado. I know the front page of the forum shows the new threads but it doesn't show the tread is in the Toro section.

Chris

MDchanic

Ahhhhhhhh... Thus RocketRaider's apparent prescience.

- Eric

rocketraider

And y'all wondered why my title says "Oldsdruid". I am a wizard, a true star...

Actually, Chris had asked about parts in another thread in which he said they were for a Toronado.

In addition to the front mount, you also get into raising the final drive and axle assemblies trying to remove a Toro timing cover in the car. Easier to unbolt it all and pull the engine.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Just so you guys know, i DID manage to remove the timing chain without removing the fuel pump. there's JUST enough room to do it. and get the new one back on.

mind you, i'm not a purist, i'm just trying to avoid the MAW's

Octania

A very worn 'dot' mark in cam side of steel front cover indicates this condition of accelerated wear. CW
=================================
My take on that is:

The cam is pulled against the block continuously by the oil pump drive and the action of the lifters.

If you have a witness mark more than barely detectable on the inside of the timing cover at the cam bolt, you have some sort of problem.

In the dozens and deozens of Olds V8's I have torn apart to part out, ONE has had a big fat gouge in that area. That car died when a pole pushed the water pump into the cam. And evidently the engine ran for some time afterwards.

Contact there is NOT normal. And, even with the best chain, the chain can't have any effect on the 0.020" or so of cam motion that is allowed by the factory clearances.