'63 Cruise Control Disappointment

[ncwitte]

I recently won an auction on eBay for a factory cruise setup for a '63 full size Olds to put in my 98. Unfortunately, the dial and dial housing are both broken to the point where it is questionable whether I can repair them to usable condition. My question is whether anyone out there has the dial or knows where I could get it. I am guessing that the answer is no, but while I am dreaming, I also could use the cable going from the dial to the cruise unit, the speedo cable from the cruise unit to the front wheel, and the plug that goes into the cruise unit.

I'm not expecting much help here, but any port in a storm. Bummer.

[Oldsfan]

Yes, I can see where you've got a problem with that control head. Not much you can do about that. You'd better start scouting around for another one. I think these are pretty much the same from '62 through '68, and from my experience, Cadillac used the same thing. These are very fragile. I haven't seen one broken like that one. Usually what happens is the nylon gears inside there break. Actually, I used to have an extra one of these. Not sure what I did with it. I know a guy that had the sliding gear reproduced in aluminum. The trouble I had with mine was that the round gear was slipping on the shaft attached to the dial. All it would do was ratchet. I had to super glue it fast. I think I have too much friction in the adjuster cable, but I've tried lubing it and there's not much you can to with it. I ever tried injecting oil with a hypodermic syringe. Keep looking, persistence pays off. I was able to get a working unit in my Starfire by using a bunch of parts I accumulated. Some are from a Cadillac. These units are cool when they are working. And they're a lifesaver if you do any kind of highway driving.

If it's any consolation, you did pretty good on the price. I figure I've got about $700 or $800 tied up in mine. I recently saw a NOS Chevrolet kit sell on eBay for somewhere in the neighborhood of $3,500!

I'll look around for a connector for the regulator. I had to make a wiring harness for mine. I'm thinking I used a connector from something else, or was able to get a new one. I'm trying to think what else uses that 3 terminal connector...

Paul

[ncwitte]

Paul, thanks for the response. I am thinking that I may see what I can do to repair the unit I have. I don't know whether the broken pot metal can be fixed but I am thinking that the plastic parts that work the cable could be reproduced by a machine shop, assuming I can get everything apart. It looks like the hooked end of the cable broke off, and the white piece into which that goes broke, as well as the black cable clamp part. I think I can heat the cable and add a new hook to it, and then lengthen the reproduction of the white interior piece to make up for the difference in length of the cable. So I think plan A is going to be to try to fix what I have.

I might be able to get the connector from Clark's Corvair Parts. They have a lot of those things. I'll hunt there.

Mostly last night I was really discouraged by the number of parts that need to be repaired or replaced. I am going to have to find a machine shop that is willing to do small jobs, so that will be a challenge. I think I know where I can send the housing, if it is repairable at all.

I'm curious, how well do these work when they are operable? I have heard this setup described as being pretty Mickey Mouse, but having seen it, I assume this derives from all the plastic in the control head. Does it do a decent job of actually controlling speed?

Also while I was on vacation, my dealer color and uphostery selector which I won on eBay came. What a cool thing that is!

[Oldsfan]

What's broken that's pot metal? I didn't see that in the auction pics. Are you sure the hook is broken off the cable? I've never seen that. There's not much of a hook there to begin with. That white nylon sliding that the hook goes into - that's the piece that guy in Florida was having made out of aluminum. I had one in my hand once. Don't know what I did with it. Gave it to someone, I guess.

These units work very well. I've used the one in my '62 extensively, as well as units on a '67 Toronado and '67 98. They hold speed very well, and it is handy to just be able to turn the dial to adjust the speed. I don't think the speed on the dial is accurate to vehicle speed. I just adjust the wheel until I get throttle back pressure at the speed and I am going, and then set it. If I need to I adjust the speed once set. But I don't try to match the wheel to vehicle speed. Before they had speed on the wheel, they just had "faster" and "slower", so that should tell you something about accuracy.

Once set, they hold speed well. My '62 is driven off of the trans and I have no issues. My '67 98 was driven off of the left front wheel. I had some issues with that one. Speedometer needle flutter was one thing. The other was that the unit would kick off if the wheel took a shock from road irregularities. Crossing bridges almost always caused it to kick off.

I am amazed at how well it work for the age of the technology and the age of the parts.

Paul

[ncwitte]

I'll try to describe all the broken parts. It's at the office and I am at home, so I am doing this from memory based upon a five-minute inspection last night when I was there to pick up the cat (long story).

First, there is a chrome housing that holds the dial. On a '63, this is located vertically on the left inside of the dash overhang. There is a set screw in the bottom of this, and a loop that goes to the left of the dial. That thin loop was broken off, apparently in shipping. That housing appears to be die cast, and will have to be repaired. The hoop on the top is what the set screw turns against, so I am doubtful that JB Weld will solve this one. I have to examine how the button that turns the cruise off attaches to this part, but assuming this can be removed without destroying it, I think my best bet here is to send it to a place that specializes in restoration of pot metal parts. Whether they can weld or otherwise reconnect these parts, I just don't know yet.

Second, the dial itself has a broken section. This I think I can repair--one of my four thousand hobbies is building plastic models, and I think this is one I can fix. By the way, the dial has an "OFF" position, and then just numbered settings going I think to 8, no speeds indicated. The lighting on it is a real sweet green. I like the look of this piece very much.

Third, the white nylon piece that attaches to the cable appears to be broken off where the cable goes into it. I think this part has to be reproduced.

Fourth, the black piece inside of which the white piece rides that clamps the cable sheath is broken off where it steps down to two sides from four. I think that I probably could repair this with some JB Weld and some reinforcing material. Plan B would be to have this part reproduced in metal, because, let's face it, plastic degrades over time and it will probably just break again.

Fifth, from what I can tell, there used to be a right angle bend in the end of the cable where it went into the white nylon part. Now, there is just the start of a bend in the cable. My current thinking is to cut off what is left of the bend, pull the cable out of the sheathing, scub it down with 0000 steel wool, coat it in WD 40 or maybe some graphite, slide it back into the sheath, clamp it in a bench vise with about 3/8 in. sticking out, heat it with a torch, and put a new 90 deg. bend in it. Hopefully, it won't be too short for the unit to work right. However, without lubing this cable, I don't see how I can make a permanent repair.

I really appreciate your experience with these units as it is all new territory for me.

[ncwitte]

One other thing is I hope that the sensitivity to road conditions isn't an issue with mine as I live in Michigan and our roads are pretty cratered as a result of deterioration caused by road salt in the winter.

[ncwitte]

I thought I would post some pictures of the parts I have been describing.

The first picture shows the broken control housing:



This morning I shipped this part to International Chromium Plating in Providence, RI. They were recommended to me by a Harley restorer here in town. They think they might be able to repair the part.

This next picture shows the cracked dial.



I was able to pry out the green plastic number disk. I think I can glue this back together using JB Weld. I will then sand down the flat side and paint it gloss black. I don't plan on painting the knurled side since that's the part you turn with your finger and I think I will be better off leaving it alone.

This picture shows the cable.




I originally said that I thought this had been cut. Looking at it more closely, I am not so sure. Is this all the hook that they put in this thing?

This last picture shows the control head itself, or what's left of it.



Unfortunately it's a little blurry, but you can see that the white part into which the cable hooks is broken, and that the extension of the black that clamps on to the cable housing is also broken off. I think I can JB Weld the black part back together, but the white part is going to be tough. I would love to locate the guy who reproduced these.

In doing further research I learned that these units were made by Perfect Circle, the same company that made piston rings. The inventor, Ralph Teetor, was the vice president of Perfect Circle. Ralph was blind from the age of five and was riding with his attorney, who would speed up and slow down while he was driving. From what I can tell, these units were used in many different makes of cars, including Chrysler products. I have been told that the control head I have was also used in '62 Oldsmobiles. Can anyone confirm this, or any other makes/models in which it was used? It might help if I can widen my search.

[Oldsfan]

Originally Posted by ncwitte

One other thing is I hope that the sensitivity to road conditions isn't an issue with mine as I live in Michigan and our roads are pretty cratered as a result of deterioration caused by road salt in the winter.

LOL! Yes, I drove my '67 in Michigan, and I had road sensitivity issues...

Paul

[Oldsfan]

Sorry, Norm. I didn't follow through on that like I promised. But I am now. First, a shot of the Cruise dial on my '62:



Doesn't really do you much good, except you've obviously got an interest in Cruise Control.

The '62 Olds setup was adopted from Cadillac. All Cadillac had in '61 was a slider that said "slow" and "fast". For '62 they came up with the numbered wheel, which is supposed to approximate car speed. I've got an "off" at the end as well. The high end. I'll never figure that one out. In an emergency, if you need to turn the system off, you have to turn it all the way up past 90. Why wouldn't you want to turn it all the way down past 30? It's in the design - turning the dial all the way clockwise pulls the selector cable all the way in, which pulls the plunger in the regulator all the way down, which open the switch, turning the unit off.

There is nothing I would like better than to take this thing apart and photograph it for you, but you surely know how fragile it is and I am afraid to even adjust the speed when using it. You can see I've got it set at roughly 72, which is where I travel when the signs say 65. This attests to the accuracy of the dial in relation to actual speed. At this setting the car is probably somewhere between 65 and 75. Since the speedometer isn't accurate either, it's hard to say. You can see that I have no pointer like you have. The apex of that hump in the housing is meant to act as a pointer. Not exact science by any means.

The Cadillac thumbwheel is illuminated, as yours is. We '62 owners got screwed. The thumbwheel is the same as a Cadillac, and can be illuminated, but there is no room behind that panel to get a light bulb back there, so we have to fumble blindly in the dark, with no relation to speed.

I can tell you that what you are showing on the tip of that selector cable is about all that is there. I don't think any of it is broken off. Do you have the part of the white piece that is broken off? Or is it missing? There is a shallow channel in that piece that this wire rides in, probably less than 1/2 in inch long, and there are two ears on the plastic that the wire snaps into. Those ears, the channel and that little hook are all that hold the wire in place. The aluminum replacement piece has no ears and no channel (that I remember). That little bit of a hook needs to be super-glued into the hole. It'll never stay on its own. Supposedly there are some of these floating around in the Chicago area. I'm working on confirming that.

More to follow...

Paul

[ncwitte]

Paul, thanks for the thorough response. I really appreciate it. I think I will be able to fix the housing and the knob, but the control mechanism is dicey. I don't have the rest of the white piece.

Does the push button turn it on or off?

Thanks.

[Oldsfan]

Here is a scan of the parts book showing cruise installation on a '63:



I thought the dial was in more detail, but it is not. It's too bad that housing was broken. Did you contact the seller? Seems it should have been packaged better. That regulator probably flopped around during shipping, busting the dial and housing. Seller seems to have good feedback, hopefully he'd come through for you.

As far as interchangability of the control head, parts book sez '61 and '62 are the same, '63 is different. I thought that might have been due to the bracket with the lamp housing, but that is a separate part, so I don't know what the difference is. I know I had one for a '67 and it was very similar, but a different part number also. Might have been the offset for the screws. Internal parts seemed identical. Bottom line is you can probably interchange these and make them work. These control heads were also used on Cadillacs. Fear not. We will get you a good control head somehow.

Did I miss anything? More to follow...

Paul

[ncwitte]

Paul, I gotta get a copy of that book. Another awesome illustration.

There appears to be a bracket that attaches to the firewall. Is that part of the stock throttle connection, or a cruise part? My car is in storage, so I can't go out and look.

There is a complete '64 Caddy setup on eBay right now. I asked the seller to send me more detailed pictures of the control head yesterday, but so far he hasn't responded. I wouldn't mind scoring this because I am also missing the speedo cable that goes from the cruise unit to the left front wheel.

As far as contacting the seller, he was contrite, but it's not like he can go back to the warehouse and grab another one. The damage was done. Candidly, he packed the thing into too small a box, but there's little to be done about it now and I am not one to make a huge fuss.

I think the chrome platers will be able to fix the housing and even though it will cost me some money, the up side is that I will have a very mint appearing housing. I have just about eliminated any trace of damage to the dial, so that will be fine. The other part I knew was broken going into this.

[Oldsfan]

A scan of the parts book showing the guts of the regulator:



I was extremely fortunate - the parts package I originally bought had a good regulator in it. Shortly afterward a NOS regulator appeared on eBay. That is the regulator I used on the car, and I kept the original for backup/parts.

The black button on the control housing sets the unit. It grounds against one of the housing attaching screws, completing the circuit and locking in the regulator, which is then held in place by the magnet assembly. Up until you push the black button, it is just a speed-minder, exerting back pressure on the accelerator pedal, unless turned off. Once locked in, turning the thumbwheel to off, or tapping the brake pedal breaks the circuit and turns it off. There is also a page in the parts book showing pedal switch placement and wire routing.

Operating instructions to follow...

Paul

[ncwitte]

Now I am a little embarrassed. I asked about the linkage on the firewall, which is circled in red on the right side of this picture.



Studying the picture further I realize now it is the accelerator lever coming through the firewall from the pedal. Silly me.

[Oldsfan]

Operating instructions:



I thought there was a parts book on eBay, but I must've dreamt it up. They are not cheap, but they are an invaluable tool.

You should be good if they can do something with that housing. At least it's not structural. Once you have it installed there should be no stress on it and very little chance of it becoming damaged again.

That Cadillac unit looks promising. I'll pull out my Cadillac parts DVD tomorrow night and see if I can get some part numbers to match, or see what kind of illustrations there are.

The bracket you are referring to - Is that one with the big arrow pointing to it and the See View "A" caption? If so, that is just part of the standard accelerator linkage. The parts book lists that 381629 rod end as being '63 cruise control specific, probably because of that extra hole. The regular rod end is used from '59 through '63. You could probably just drill your existing end. My '62 has a piggy back rod that is clamped on top of the original rod.

That seller could refund some money to compensate for the damage. But truth be told, I still think you made out. I'd say the regulator alone is worth in excess of your high bid.

[Oldsfan]

Originally Posted by ncwitte

Now I am a little embarrassed.

No need to be. Where'd that picture come from?

Paul

[Oldsguy]

what is that green stuff in the picture that looks like christmans tree needles?

[ncwitte]

The picture came from the seller. He sent me a CD showing how things were before he took them apart, which I greatly appreciated.

I think that this Starfire had been converted to a wilderness preserve for some time before my cruise came off.

I'm ok with Don, the seller. He's a nice guy and he had to spend more time than he wanted to dealing with me, I am sure.

I got some additional pictures of the Caddy unit on eBay, and it looks like it isn't going to do the trick. Well, I am in no hurry....

[Oldsfan]

Did he send you the rod end with the extra hole in it?

I'd like to see the Caddy pictures. You can send them to me privately if you'd prefer not to post them here. This thread has really turned into the Norm and Paul show. And we've taken up a lot of space with the graphics.

Paul