Towing with a '63 Ninety Eight; Power Vent Windows

[ncwitte]

I have a '63 98 and am planning on restoring the car in the next year. I want to keep the car as stock as possible. My intention when I finish restoring the car is to get an Airstream Overlander of about the same vintage and use the 98 as a tow vehicle. I am intending on installing a class 3 hitch, air leveling system and a brake controller on the car.

My question is whether I am going to have issues with the stock transmission. I know there are options to upgrade to a newer transmission but I would really prefer not to do that. If there are things I can do as part of a rebuilt on the tranny, I am fine with that.

On a completely unrelated topic, I am considering adding power ventipanes. Any idea where to look to find the regulators, harnesses, and door switch panels?

Thanks in advance for your help.

[alrandmae]

Norm,

I think the Starfire and police package hydramatics were slightly beefed up, a shop manual would tell us that, but I dont have one. I know in 61 this was true. And I also know the basic 63 hydramatic was improved since the 61 introduction.

As far as power vents, that's a cool option, but I bet the best way to get that is from another car, perhaps one in a junkyard or a parts car. It's a rare option but somewhat more common on the Starfire - but that wont give you all the parts since you'll need the unique castings for the door panel switches from a 98.

[ncwitte]

Thanks for the info. I will look in my shop manual to see what I can find out. I really would like to set this up for a tow vehicle if possible. It would be a real classy way to camp.

I've made a little progress on the power ventipane deal. I think all I really need for the power vents are the door switch panels, but those will probably be a real challenge to find. Apparently they were pretty generic throughout GM and there is a guy selling complete repopped sets on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...9125551&rd=1,1

For someone reading this thread later on, just search eBay Motors for "power vent" and he will probably show up. He is claiming to sell quantities of 50 of these things for about $400 complete. Not cheap, but it would get me there.

Some PO drilled some holes in one of my front door trim pads, so I am going to end up sending one damaged and three very nice trim pads to SMS for restoration at some point. So I figure that at that stage I can eliminate the hole for the window crank. That means that the trick is the factory door switch panels, which I am sure are made out of unobtainium.

[Oldsguy]

My son's '65 98 six window hardtop has power vent panes and the motor shafts are worn. He thinks that at some point someone tried to get into the car and forced the panes causing the shafts to get boggered up. The motors still work though. Just be careful for stuff like that if get yours from a used car.

[Oldsfan]

I did some checking once in relation to Slim Jims and the only real difference I could see was in the valve bodies. I couldn't really see any difference as far as internal parts, but I'll look again. People towed with these cars when they were new, so you should be able to tow with it now. Just take it easy. I think a vintage car pulling a vintage Airstream (or a vintage Chris Craft) is cool. There used to be a guy that ran a '52 Olds pulling a '52 Airstream.

As far a power vent windows, I just put them in my Starfire last year. I got the power regulators from a '61 98 in a junkyard and swapped them in for the manual regulators. I was lucky, as both motors are in good working shape, and the regulator gears and the parts where the shafts from the vent window frames slide in are good and strong. Those parts are white metal and they don't hold up well.

I see you've got a Sports Sedan, so to correctly mount your switches they should go in the armrest consoles. Availability on those switches is good. The driver's side is still available from GM. I don't know if you'll have to find other armrest plates, or if the ones you have have posts on the back to mount the switches. If they do, you'd just have to make holes on the face for the switches to come through. Technically you should have those little chrome divider bars, too. You could eliminate all that, and eliminate the manual regulator holes you'll now have, but mounting the switches in the old regulator hole area, but that won't be correct. I doubt many people would know the difference, tho. Unless you can find a donor car with an intact harness, you'll have to make one. We pulled the harness from the donor car and used some of it to fabricate a harness for the Starfire, which has a single switch mounted on the center console.

Paul

[ncwitte]

Dan, I have seen a number of the motors come up on eBay and I think that the way these failed was that the gear stripped in them. One seller mentioned that reproduced gears are available. I think the reproduced kit would be the way to go, except cost.

Paul, are the switches you are referring to the ones with the rounded bezel around them? I think I am going to have to track down an actual set of door switch panels; I will look at mine first and see if they can be modified. I know these panels were used in other cars and several other years as well, so maybe I will have better luck than I think in finding them.

Thanks to both of you for your input!

[ncwitte]

By the way, Paul, looks like I passed through your neck of the woods today. Drove the family and my mom from Lansing, MI to Gaithersburg, MD for spring break in the DC area. Nice countryside out here.

[ncwitte]

Dan, take a look at this ad in Hemmings:

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/...ed/399791.html

I think your son's car just needs new gears for the vent windows, which can be purchased through this vendor.

[Oldsfan]

Norm, I guess you were about as close my neck of the woods as you're gonna get, going down to D.C.

The switch I'm talking about is one of these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/63-67...spagenameZWDVW

Still available new from GM, although not as good as the originals. I had trouble with one of these shorting out internally once. Made lots of smoke under the dash of my last Starfire convertible! Can't buy them from GM for what this seller want, tho. Single switch for the passenger side is also available.

Paul

[ncwitte]

Paul, that is really interesting. I did some research looking at parts on eBay this morninig and I am itching to get my car out of storage so that I can look at the door panels. As I recall there is a die cast chromed base and a piece of stainless trim that is probably glued to the top of it. It's possible that they used the same casting for all cars, and that all I would have to do is cut a very accurate hole in the stainless on top. Since the rest of the setup is available, SMS can repop the trim pads, and switches are available, the whole setup might be available new. That is nothing short of amazing. More research is in order!

[Oldsfan]

Norm, I think you are right all except for the glued on stainless trim. I think it is all one cast piece with just a brushed finish on the part that you are talking about. I think all those plates are the same underneath and were just cut out at the manufacturer for whatever application was needed. See attachment

Paul

[ncwitte]

Paul, great picture. Where did you get it?

So it looks like I would have it made except that even if I could cut the panel out neatly enough, I still need the divider bar, which puts me back at square one of needing a couple of original switch plates. Good thing I have twelve left and right NOS pairs down in the basement...not! Well, I guess the search is on. Any leads would be appreciated.

[Oldsfan]

It came out of the parts book. I'm glad you thought it was great - I thought it was lousy. Not very clear.

You could always cut out a hole for the vent switch and just leave some of the trim plate between it and the regular window switch block. I doubt anyone would ever know the difference. But you'd have to get it aligned just right.

I think you need to go Cadillac huntin'. I think Cadillac (and Buick, too) used that same divider bar. But, as you know, power vents weren't the norm and these parts are scarce. But Cadillac Fleetwoods had power vents (front and back!). There was a '63 near me with a lot of good stuff on it, but it has been crushed. I was looking for another '63/'64 Fleetwood in a different yard when I stumbled upon the '61 98 with the power vents. I never did find that Fleetwood. I know it's got 'em.

I think the only reason for the divider bar was so you could tell which switches were which in the dark.

Paul