1963 Olds Ninety-Eight

[RatRod]

I'm new to the old car scene... always wanted one, but could never find enough spare cash to buy a solid project. I just picked up this one locally, and she looks like a ringer. It needs tires, brakes, and a tune-up to get it roadworthy. It has 70k original miles, and I bought it from the second owner, who had planned on restoring it, but acquired two other projects and decided to cut this one. I read in another post about a '61 that the trannies in these act up... is that also true for this year? I haven't actually taken it for a road test, due to bad brakes. What should I start with once I get it trailered home?

Here's the listing so you can take a look at it:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/OLDSM...QQcmdZViewItem

[Oldsfan]

Nice starter car. A/C is always a plus.

Yes, this has a Slim-Jim - all '61 to '64 full size cars had them (unless they were 3 speed sticks). They made improvements to these as the years went, but I've been in '64s that don't shift a whole lot better than my '61 did.

Paul

[Oldsguy]

You have a nice looker there! My son owns a '64 six window fourdoor similar to that except his is a hardtop. It has the slim jim tranny and he hates it. Not to burst your bubble though, your car may have a good tight tranny, who knows? Do the brakes first, then the tune-up and get it running good. Last, find out if the tranny is any good or not.

[RatRod]

If I decide to do something different with the tranny, what would you guys recommend? A rebuild kit, or an adapter kit for a Chevy trans? Oh, and another thing, I've heard that the High Compression engines require high octane gas to run properly... will that be the case with mine?

[Oldsguy]

I think there is someone that makes adapters for the 394 to accept most Olds/GM trannys all you have to do is specify which one. I just can't remember who it was. Give me some time to look over all the junk I collect from car shows and such. About the engine, you should be able to compensate a little by backing off on the advance a little but she will still knock under hard acceleration because they do in fact need high octane fuel. I think the 394 was a 10.25:1 cr. Some people have used additives but that would get expensive for a daily driver.

[Oldsfan]

See this thread, already in progress...

http://www.classicoldsmobile.com/for...m-options.html

I can't run low octane in the Starfire, even for local driving. Even high octane really isn't enough for the high compression in these things. Figure in carbon buildup over the years and the compression is even higher. I'm going to low compression pistons when I do my rebuild.

Paul

[alrandmae]

Hey congrats on the 63 Olds 98! Yes, these cars are quirky in certain areas but if yr good to it it'll be good to you. The guys are right about the slim jim transmission, they aren't the greatest units but here's a tip. Usually they hold up if you aren't rough with the throttle. If you are going to jerk the car around and do neutral drops, plan on the fun lasting only 5 minutes until the trans grenades itself internally. But if you drive normally, these units can last over 200,000 miles (friend's father had a 61 that made it to 280,000 or so). Here's the key: the internal parts are weak, so if you dont shock the unit with sudden changes in throttle, you'll be fine. You can do full throtlle accelleration, but just dont mash the pedal...go gradual. And here's the number one thing...if you are driving along and stopping for a red light, for example...you are slowing down and you are just about stopped and then the light turns green again. If the trans has shifted down out of second back to first, there is a LAG time for the coupling (akin to the torque converter) to build pressure again before first gear will be there. So you may be in 'neutral' for a few seconds. So dont suddenly hit the gas and expect to go - the car may revv and slam into gear. THATS how most of these units blow up! So just remember, go easy and you'll be fine.

As far as changing the trans? You might be able to do that, but if you do you will severely devalue the car. Do it and you will kiss your investment good-bye.

Your best bet is to keep it stock, get the AC working, and just cruise.

If you are handy, do a full tune up to factory spec after you finish the brakes. You'll be amazed at the power and torque these cars have. They are a blast to drive.

But the first thing I would do is pour in one quart of Mobil 1 5W-30 on top of the old dirty engine oil, and one quart of engine flush (such as Kano Kreen) and let the engine idle on fast idle cam for about a half hour and then change the oil and filter. The 394 is a great engine but it tended to get sludgy if not maintained, especially in the upper cyl head by the rocker arms. So oil changes are critical and this method is a good way to do an agressive flush while reducing the danger of damaging the engine. (The Mobil 1 has a very high film strength to counteract the thinning action of the engine flush). If the car has the stock original oil pan drain plug, dont panic, it looks like it will require a special tool, but just stick a 1/2 drive ratchet into it without a socket and you'll get it open.

As far as fuel, most guys dont know that today's premium fuels are the same octane as they were years ago when these cars were new. Seems that everyone was duped by the change in the rating system. Today it's r+m/2, so it's an average of two systems. Bottom line is that at factory spec on ignition timing you'll need premium, but the car will run fine and not 'ping' under most conditions. If it is troublesome I can help - there are many many ways to eliminate the ping without sacrificing power or fuel economy that dont require modifications or expensive changes. It just takes a little smarts and knowledge of engines.

Let me know if I can help...I am a relatively young guy but I know my stuff, especially on the 61-64 Oldsmobiles.

Alan

[ncwitte]

Congrats on the purchase. I have a '63 98 Holiday Sports Sedan that I purchased in 1992. I haven't put huge miles on the car but I have never had a problem with the trans, or with pinging. It runs fine on today's gas.

I noticed in the pictures that your air cleaner has the "Ultra High Compression" decal on it, which if it's original and goes with the motor, means you have the higher compression Starfire motor. My car just has the stock 394 motor, so you might have other issues.

Just some other facts you might find interesting. Your car is a Town Sedan, model 63-3819. It had a base price of $3,982 and wieghed 4,395 pounds. Production of this model was 11,053 units. There was another six window 98, the Luxury Sedan. The easy way to tell the two apart from the outside is that the LS was a pillarless hardtop, while the Town Sedan was a post.

Norm

[Oldsfan]

Sorry, I'm going to step on some toes here, but mis-information has to be corrected.

Ultra High Compression does not make it a Starfire engine.

The low compression motors Olds offered in the base 88 models (depending on the year) was around 8.5 to 1 (that's an estimate, I don't have figures in front of me).

The Ultra High Compression motor was around 10.25 to 1 and was standard in 98s, Super 88s and sometimes base 88s (again, depending on the year). This was not the Starfire motor.

The Starfire motor was 10.50 to one compression and was standard and only available in the Starfire for the first two years. In '63 and '64 it was also available on the 98 Custom Sports coupe, which included dual exhaust, bucket seats and a console. I think the Starfire motor was optional on other '64 98s. I'm not sure about '63.

Just because the air cleaner says Ultra High Compression doesn't mean it's a Starfire motor.

Paul

[ncwitte]

Paul, no toes stepped on here. The literature I have read indicates that the 10.5:1 motor that was standard in the Starfire and Custom Sports Coupe was optional in the other 98 models. I agree that a sticker doesn't make a motor high compression, but from what I have seen, the "Ultra High Compression" decal was placed on the 10.5:1 motors. Other 98 models came standard with the 10.25:1 motor, which had the "Skyrocket" aircleaner decal, but no "Ultra High Compression" decal. I could be wrong on this, but this is my impression.

[ncwitte]

One other thing; I am not aware of any differences between the Starfire powerplant and the 345 hp motor offered in the Custom Sports Coupe and as optional equipment in other 98s. So when someone refers to the Starfire motor, they could just as well refer to the 345 hp output or the 10.5:1 compression ratio. As I understand it, the difference was a different cam and pistons, and dual exhaust. Again, I could be wrong, that's just my understanding.

[RatRod]

Thanks for all the info, guys... I'm actually picking it up this weekend, so get prepared for a barrage of questions when I start taking it apart. For now, I have two questions: Is there anywhere that I could get a shop manual for the car? And secondly, should I flush the transmission fluid before attempting to drive it (since it seems that its delicate)?

[ncwitte]

Shop manuals come up relatively regularly on eBay. I'll defer on your tranny question to some of the other experts, but I would think that it can't hurt.

[alrandmae]

Hi, I can help - I have the original 63 Olds literature, accessory books and 'inspectors guide' right in front of me.

Here's the deal: all of the high compression engines had a decal that said 'ultra high compression' including the 2bbl std engine on the D88 which was the same compression as the 4bbl 98 and S88 motor of 10.25:1. The S88 and 98 had the 4bbl and had the same decals as the Starfire motor, except the center larger decal on the Starfire motor said "Starfire" and the large decal on the Skyrocket engine said "Skyrocket."

So the UHC decal is missing from your air cleaner - it should be on the top front edge. It's reproduced in the original aluminum material so you can buy it if you want it.

The 345 hp Starfire engine was not optional on any model - but it came standard in the Starfires and the 98 Custom Sports Coupe. But you could order the 330hp Skyrocket engine that was standard on the 98s and the Super 88s in a Dynamic 88 at extra cost. There is one interesting aside: you could order a police package version of the 394 mill on full size cars, apparently. The motor would have originally been painted silver instead of red, and it was the 10.5:1 compression motor just like the Starfire and used the Starfire cam, but it was probably beefed up internally. The really cool thing is that it says this was available with synchromesh - the manual transmission! I'll bet the order sheets would have limited that to the non-bucket seat cars due to the console, but ya never know. Anyone ever seen one? THAT was the screamer of all 63 Oldsmobiles.

I have all the engine casting codes if anyone ever needs them. There were downgrade options too, like regular fuel option on the D88, and I'm sure the UHC decal was not there on that one.

So it's complex, but interesting.

[ncwitte]

That's really interesting. I have to confess I am not sure now what my car's aircleaner says, and I can't check because my car is in storage at my mom's while we are moving. Hopefully in a couple weeks. Sorry if I contributed some confusion.

I was talking to a local '63 Olds expert here in the Lansing area and apparently another special order option was a heavy duty frame--full boxed, like the convertible--on hardtop and sedan models. Do your references say anything about that?

[alrandmae]

The police package consisted of:

K82: 52 Amp Delcotron
B01: Police Cruiser Chassis Parts
B07: Highway Patrol Rocket 88 Engine (probably over 345 hp, no info avail)
F74: Heavy duty chassis (this is the boxed frame, was also std on all exports)

All these codes could of course be ordered separately.

It's interesting that the V01 Special Duty Radiator is not listed in the police package, perhaps it came with the B07 motor.

I have the whole list of accessories, there are a ton of them including wild stuff like a radio reverb system and spare tire delete.

[ncwitte]

That's really neat. Thanks for the info.

[alrandmae]

Thanks Norm, am glad to contribute to this forum.

Hey I have a question: have you ever seen a 63 98 with a factory paint accent stripe? The books say it was available, but there is no info and I've never ever seen a car with it. Couldn't even guess where they'd put it. It's a separate thing from 2 tone paint where the roof could have been painted a different color from the body. So I am stumped on that one.

I'd be interested in seeing a photo of your car; I really like the 98 4 window htp, really great looking car.

All best,
Alan

[alrandmae]

Ratrod: if the transmission fluid looks pretty decent, I'd leave it alone. Unless its totally wiped out it will not affect the fragility of the unit. In fact a little slippage on the internal clutches would probably even be better from a stress manaegement point of view. I've also learned (and experienced first hand) that fresh fluid may cause old units to start to leak both internally and externally, so that would be cause to rebuild the unit anyway. So if in doubt, leave the fluid in there. But if it is really burned, brown, or contaminated, change it before running the car.

[alrandmae]

just to be clear, I mean 'during-a-shift' slippage which is normal operation, not 'coming-out-of-gear' slippage which is a failure of the unit. In other words, clean fluid might strip varnish off the clutch plates and cause them to grab faster and therefore introduce higher stress on the internal parts.

[ncwitte]

I have never seen the factory pinstripe either and have always been curious as well. I suspect it would run along the top of the flat side panels; the sales brochure refers to it as being on the "beltline."

Pictures of my 98:






There are some more pictures here:

http://www.motortopia.com/vehicles/v.../53/i/das_boot

The car is equipped with the standard power windows and 4 way seat, trunk popper, tilt, AC, power antenna and wonderbar AM radio. Except for some collision damage on the drivers door which was blended into the adjoining panels, the paint on the car appears to be 100% original, but it's shot. I won an auction on eBay for the factory cruise setup, which I am going to add. I also would like to get a power vent window setup and the factory six-way seat. I bought the car in 1992. It originally came from Carlsbad, NM. Anything from around here would be far more rusty.

The images in this post will eventually disappear when I start doing the story of the restoration of the car on my website.

[alrandmae]

Hi Norm,

Thanks for posting the pictures; the car is awesome. The color combo is killer, really looks great. Great thing is that it has some nice optional equipment too, the AC is the important one and you've got it.

All best,
Alan