1966 Delta 88 Owner-to-Be

[rane]

Welcome, young man! -Pretty olds!
You started from the top..

[VegasDelta]

Very nice car. Lots of luck with it.

[Affinity]

Car will be here on Wednesday or Thursday

[rocketraider]

Are you driving it or trailering it?

Let us know how things turn out and more pics! I'm as close as a PM or email if you need any help with this beauty.

[Affinity]

Finally got it today! Looks great. Needs new headlights, reverse lights need to be fixed/replaced, speedometer fixed, need to make sure e-brake's off, and the convertible top is messed up with some tears in it. We could put it down (not all the way, but good enough) but it wouldn't go up. We had to get my brother to help me and my dad push it closed while my dad held the button to put it up. Any suggestions? We're going to focus on mechanical stuff first for obvious reasons, then move on to spicing it up.

Ah, and what's the importance of an intact protect-o-plate booklet? The guy we bought it from gave us three manilla folders with all the past receipts, a part catalog from 2008 for the car, and the original booklets, and one of them had a "protect-o-plate" inside.

EDIT: The horn doesn't work, either.

Drives very smoothly.

EDIT 2: We're going to try a new battery and grease the stuff for the top, and see if that fixes it going up and down. I'll keep you updated.

[jaunty75]

Originally Posted by Affinity

Ah, and what's the importance of an intact protect-o-plate booklet? The guy we bought it from gave us three manilla folders with all the past receipts, a part catalog from 2008 for the car, and the original booklets, and one of them had a "protect-o-plate" inside.

The protect-o-plate is cool because it was part of the original collection of glovebox literature that came with the car when it was new. I think GM stopped including them about 1972 or so. It was a metal plate, embossed like a credit card, with all sorts of information about the car as well as the name of the original owner and the original selling dealer. It would be great source of information for someone buying a car from that era and wanting to piece together its early history. Many cars from that era have long since lost their protect-o-plates.

Here's a link which decodes a plate from a '64 442.

http://www.tedstevens.us/Protecto-Plate-1964-442.html

[Oldsguy]

Since the reverse lights and horn do not work, you might check the wiring in the steering column, maybe a connector. The both originate from there. Or it could be as simple as a fuse that has blown...

[wolfman98]

x2 on the steering column , that is where I finally found my horn problem.

[Affinity]

Fixed all headlights, turning signals, one of the reverse lights, and the speedometer.

The convertible top still won't go down, though. Dad took out the battery and cleaned it and everything, and put WD-40 on a bunch of places on the car. Any suggestions?

[rocketraider]

Does the top motor run OK from the switch? Do you have the engine running so the alternator is working when you're trying to operate the top? That motor draws some current.

If motor & pump runs but the top still doesn't operate, it may be low on fluid. It can be a messy procedure trying to fill the pump and bleed it and it's a page or so in the body manual so it's not really practical to post here. You'll find it in the trunk behind the rear seat and probably underneath the fabric top well cover, along with the plastic hydraulic lines to the top cylinders.

If top hasn't been operated in a while the seals in the cylinders may be dry. Get some transmission fluid and a shop rag and wipe the cylinder shafts. You can disconnect them from the top frame and see if the top goes fully down/up with them unhooked- if so you have cylinder issues, something is not allowing them to bleed off to the pump reservoir.

What did you find on that speedometer?

[Affinity]

My dad pulled out the speedometer cable from the steering column or whatever and just pulled on the cord inside, then plugged back in. He said it works, but I haven't driven it since.

Seems like so much has been done to it in the day that I've had it ;o

We'll try the other stuff you said tomorrow.

[Affinity]

A few questions.

What type of transmission fluid should we use? And what type of oil is recommended? We couldn't find the oil dipstick, either.

Also found out that we need the following:

- New exhaust (holes in it, bent)
- New trunk pan/everything (rusty)
- New gas tank (straps are rusty, and as a general precaution)
- Tune-up (dad can do that)

Anyone happen to have a gas tank or trunk pan?

[Oldsmaniac]

I have a tank and the trunk floor would be better patched if not real bad. Trans fluid should be GM dextron or the like for GM cars. Oil dipstick is on drivers side for engine oil near 3rd sparkplug at exhaust manifold on that side. Oil 10w-30 will work.

[Affinity]

Thanks, we're gonna try what rocketraider said about the top this weekend.

[jaunty75]

Originally Posted by Affinity

Also found out that we need the following:

- New gas tank (straps are rusty, and as a general precaution)

Anyone happen to have a gas tank or trunk pan?

Have hope! I dropped the tank on my '67 Delta 88 with 130,000 miles on it to get at the fuel gauge sending unit, and the tank and straps, which looked not too good while they were on the car, turned out to be just fine. The straps cleaned up very nicely with a wire brush wheel on the end of my drill, and the tank just had some surface rust that cleaned off easily. The tank itself was in excellent shape, so I just repainted it, repainted the straps, and put everything back on the car.

My point is, don't assume the tank is bad until you've actually taken it down and looked it. 40+ years of rain and snow and grime and dirt and crud collects under there, and until you get it all cleared away, you really might not know the true condition of the tank. Unless, of course, you can actually see problems like gas leaks or whatever, as it sits there on your car.

[Affinity]

Well, we're not sure if we're gonna buy a new one yet. The whole underside of the car is covered in surface rust, but it drives great. It's leaning to the driver's side so we're going to get some shock absorbers. Interior's fine, trunk should be okay for the time being. It's been patched in the past, there's sheets bolted in there. We replaced a bolt for one of the gas tank straps today. We really need to get the top fixed soon.

[jaunty75]

Originally Posted by Affinity

It's leaning to the driver's side so we're going to get some shock absorbers.

My completely amateur opinion would be that this is more likely caused by a weak or broken coil spring on that side. A worn shock would cause that corner to bounce more, but I don't know that it would cause the car to lean that way.

[OLD SKL 69]

Congrats on your new ride and welcome to the site. You are definitely going to stick out in the high school parking lot with that beauty. Ahhh style and chrome! You'll make tons of new friends that just want to go out for a ride!!!

[Red Delta]

Watch them tail lights. I constantly have an issue with the bulb assembly grounding properly. I'm thinking about running a separate ground wire to solve the issue, that is, unless someone has a better idea.

[Affinity]

Been driving around for about three hours now, drives great. My aunt gave me a gift- 20$ of gas. Almost got it to half! Should cost about 50-60 to fill it all the way up. Anyone know how many gallons the gas tank is?

@jaunty - My dad said the shocks, I said it was probably both. They're both pretty rusted out all-around the car.

@OLD SKL 69 - Yep! Already got people who I've never seen before waving at me.

@Red Delta - Funny you should say that, we went to autozone around 11 and bought a pack of bulbs and replaced the ground one (it worked when the metal was touching) and it was fine. My dad said exactly what you said, just in a simple way.

[jaunty75]

Originally Posted by Affinity

My aunt gave me a gift- 20$ of gas. Almost got it to half! Should cost about 50-60 to fill it all the way up. Anyone know how many gallons the gas tank is?

Yep, $50 to $60 sounds about right. Did you put in regular or high-test? I've been putting high-test in my '67 Delta because it says to do that on the air cleaner and on the fuel filler cap. (Both actually say "premium," but I like the term "high-test" better.) It runs very well on that, but that price dial at the gas pump really moves up quickly!

The tank on my '67 Delta is 25 gallons, so I would guess that it was the same on the '66's, but I don't know for sure.

[toro68]

Welcome to ClassicOldsmobile.com !

[Affinity]

We've put 89 octane in it, it's labeled as "plus", right in between regular and premium. Thanks for the welcome.

Took my grandma out for a ride a few minutes ago, had to put the top up because she had just got her hair done. Looks like the top's starting to tear pretty badly, bad enough so I can't drive even when it's sprinkling. Where's the cheapest place I can get a new top?

[jaunty75]

Originally Posted by Affinity

Took my grandma out for a ride a few minutes ago, had to put the top up because she had just got her hair done.

(Sigh) Isn't this the way it ALWAYS is with women?

Where's the cheapest place I can get a new top?

When I needed a new top for my '75 Delta 88 back in the mid-90s, I had a shop that specializes in convertible tops, interiors and upholstery, etc. do it. New top plus new glass rear window plus installation cost me about $700. What inflation and so forth has done to that number by now I don't know.

If you can do the installation yourself, you can get a new top for several hundred dollars, depending on who you get it from and the level of material quality you're willing to pay for.

Here's one site I just now googled. I know nothing about them, but they've got tops for your car for $300 to $600 depending on whether it's vinyl or canvas and whether you get a plastic or glass rear window. I'm sure others will have recommendations as well.

http://www.convertibletopguys.com/home

[Affinity]

Inside the manilla folders that came with the car were some parts catalogs. One of them is from 2008, by USA PARTS SUPPLY. They have tops ranging from 200-540, depending on what it's made of. They have one just titled "best texture material", which is 200, a heavy duty 3 ply vinyl for 283, and a 3 ply acrylic for 540. Right now the car has a glass rear window. They also have an installation video for 41.95, which they say is refundable if it's returned in good condition. Which would you advise? I'll give more detailed information below, straight from the book.

ORIGINAL COLOR TOP - MADE OF THE BEST TEXTURE MATERIAL
198.98

EXTRA HEAVY DUTY TOP - 3 PLY VINYL LAMINATED TO BUTYL RUBBER ON A COTTON LINING AVAILABLE IN BLACK AND WHITE WITH A BLACK UNDERSIDE
282.98

STAYFAST TOP - HAARTZ 3-PLY ACRYLIC FACE FADE RESISTANT FABRIC, THE FINEST TOP AVAILABLE, AVAILABLE IN BLACK, TAN, BROWN, AND DARK BLUE WITH A BLACK OR TAN UNDERSIDE.
539.95

I most likely wouldn't get the first. If I go with the second, I'd get black. I'd also get black if I got the third one.

Got any idea how much it would cost to buy everything needed for the convertible top (motor, hydraulics, bars, etc)?

[jaunty75]

Originally Posted by Affinity

Got any idea how much it would cost to buy everything needed for the convertible top (motor, hydraulics, bars, etc)?

At the site I mentioned, the tops come with the cables. Everything else you would have to buy separately, I assume, and, if you need everything, one glance through the Fusick catalog will be enough to stop your heart.

I THINK you need two top cylinders, plus the motor, plus hoses. Fusick charges $149 each for the cylinders, $245 for the motor, and $109 a pair for the hoses. That's $652, plus the top itself. You could easily be into this for $1000. I'm wrong and you need only one cylinder, that $652 would become $503. Even with your cheapest top, you're still talking over $700 not including shipping, tax, or whatever, and, of course, you still have to put it on the car.

When I paid that $700 back in 1994, I need only the top plus the rear window and cables. The frame and the rest of the mechanism was ok. Of course, though, that price included installation, which I was more than happy to let them do as I know less than zero about installing convertible tops.

[FATRATMATT]

Congrates on a great looking car! Sounds like you are off and running! Enjoy your "New" old car!

[rocketraider]

Welcome to the world of convertible ownership. I will never again own a 71-76 GM fullsize ragtop because of that damn electric scissor top. At least a malfunctioning hydraulic top can be operated manually if needed.

Unless you're really good with tools or overly ambitious, I'd leave that top job to a professional trim shop. Go with the mid-line 3-ply vinyl top; canvas will look out of place on a 60s car and is harder to clean if it's needed.

[jaunty75]

I will never again own a 71-76 GM fullsize ragtop because of that damn electric scissor top. At least a malfunctioning hydraulic top can be operated manually if needed.

Yes, this is the downside of these convertibles. The upside, though, is that the mechanism is less complicated, at least to the extent that there are no liquids involved. The mechanism is entirely mechanical, if I'm not mistaken. Otherwise, why would GM have switched to this mechanism for those last-era convertibles?

[rocketraider]

Because by doing that, they could save having different rear seats for convertibles- 1971-75 B 2-door HT and convertible and C 2-door HT use the same rear seat structure. They already had the top system in place, it was developed for Corvairs to keep hydraulic fluid out of their engine compartments, and the 1971 Eldorado also used it. ED uses the same top frame as the B convertibles, and they could amortize its cost over all five Divisions by using it on all the big convertibles.

Less complicated? maybe. But also prone to wear, stripped gearboxes and actuators, broken drive cables et al. The hydraulic system was infinitely simpler and more reliable IMO.

Have you ever had to synchronize those top actuators? If the top goes up lopsided, they need it.

[jaunty75]

Originally Posted by rocketraider

Because by doing that, they could save having different rear seats for convertibles- 1971-75 B 2-door HT and convertible and C 2-door HT use the same rear seat structure.

Makes sense.

Have you ever had to synchronize those top actuators? If the top goes up lopsided, they need it.

No, I was fortunate in the 7 years I owned my '75 Delta 88 convertible to never have a problem with the top after the new one was put on about three months after I got it.

I should knock on wood about my '67 Delta convertible, too. The car has needed many things, but one thing that seems to be working fine is the top, which also looks fairly new, so I'm assuming a recent previous owner spent some money on a new one and had everything brought to working order or at least had any needed maintenance done at the same time.

[Affinity]

Well now the problem isn't getting it up or down, it's that the top, over the years, has shrunk and is starting to tear at the seams.

[jaunty75]

Originally Posted by Affinity

Well now the problem isn't getting it up or down, it's that the top, over the years, has shrunk and is starting to tear at the seams.

Now I'm a bit confused. Above you asked about the cost of getting the mechanicals (pump, motor, etc.), which suggested that you needed those things. If the top does goes up and down, then do you need all that other stuff, or just the top itself?

[Affinity]

It goes up and down, slowly, and may need a push sometimes but you can also see a bit of smoke. It also rises lopsided on one side, then straightens itself out real quick.

[rocketraider]

Aff- where is the smoke coming from? If from the top pump motor, that's not good.

Even though you live in a very mild zone compared to many here, with winter coming I wouldn't mess with that top too much if its in bad shape. Do you have covered shelter for it? even though it looks like hell warmed over, a blue or silver tarp over the top will keep weather out while the car is parked.

In the meantime start sniffing around for a trim shop that can do this job.

[Affinity]

Don't know anything about the motors or anything, but if you're looking into the back seat from the front, it's coming from the sides. We can't tell where, but it comes from something behind those two upholstery pieces on each side of the rear seats (the two pieces that can be unscrewed)

We keep it under the carport.

[rocketraider]

Look in the front part of the trunk on the "shelf" and you should see the top's hydraulic pump and motor assembly. Long round canister looking thing with wires and tubes running to it. You may have to lift up a cover or the top well liner to get to it.

The plastic tubes run from the pump to the top hydraulic lift cylinders, which are behind the trim pieces at the sides of the rear seat back. There's nothing electrical behind there so what you're seeing may not be smoke, but mist from a hydraulic fluid leak past the cylinder seals or a loose/broken hose connection- which could explain the top being slow to raise and lower.

Keep in touch. We'll help you get it right. Wish you were just a little closer, I'd make a run down there to help ya.

Did you get a shop manual or Fisher body manual yet?

[carmax]

I have a brand new white top in the box for a project I never got to. I has new pads and a plastic window. Its for a 66 Pontiac Catalina which I know is the came as your 88.

Let me know if you are interested.

I also have a good friend with a 66 Buick Electra convertible parts car if you need any convertible parts.

Carmak
Riverside, Iowa
66 98 LS
carmak@iowatelecom.net