You MIGHT be a Redneck if...

[68Tom]

Originally Posted by Coltonis

I got these from this forum's very own 2blu442, nice guy, lots of cool parts. He even got them hot tanked, fluxed and checked the valve sizes for me b4 he shipped them. I highly recommend you send him your money, magnificent things will show up on your door step.

Agreed. John is awesome. Has helped me with several '68 parts.

[Coltonis]

Originally Posted by AZ442

I may have seen this car before. There was a classic car dealer in Prescott Valley that may of had this car 4 sale 8-9 years ago.

It definitely is the same neck of the woods. I doubt there can really be that many Classic Oldsmobiles running around northern AZ, what kinda shape would it have been in at that point in time?

The history I was told gets fuzzy real quick...
Basically the guy I bought it from in Cottonwood (err, I guess it was Camp Verde technically, or something) had a bunch of cool vehicles, one of which was this souped up truck that he was trying to sell. His collection also included 3 Cutlass's already. A guy that came to look at the truck saw his collection and offered to trade him for part of the cost of the truck two Oldsmobile that he knew were in a junkyard somewhere up there. One being my 70 cutlass and the other being a 72 that "most likely was 442" (notched bumper, sway bar, 455 engine -- in the trunk--in pieces), but was in WAY worse shape (Lots of rust, lots of dents-especially in the roof for some reason). This is where info starts to fizzle. Not sure if the guy that got it from the junkyard ran/worked their or had talked to who ever owned the junkyard. But somewhere along the way somebody told somebody else that it had belonged to a high school shop teacher up around those parts before it landed in the junk yard. And Thats all I've got. Not sure how long the guy I bought it from had it or how long it sat in the junkyard. Alot, can happen to a car in 8-9 years true enough.

Rats! I really really wish I had thought to save the pictures from the original craigslist posting, it was quite a sight.

[AZ442]

When I looked at the car, it was in the same condition as when you started your build. I believe it did run and from what I can remember it had a big block. I was looking for a 70 442 until 2 years ago when I found mine in Tucson (after 2 scams on ebay)

Best of luck to you and keep posting.

[Coltonis]

After my initial push to get the engine out, it sat for nearly a month. I got tired of looking at it partially dismantled and decided to just get'r'done by myself. First thing I went after was trying to make a little more space for a precariously hoisted engine block.

The plastic wheel wells turned out to be an easy pull. Just a few easy bolts in the fender and front clip. And then I wiggled it out through the engine bay.









AH, Now there is some room to breathe!


As a side note I also got to see first hand why the fenders always want to rust out down low inbetween the wheel well and the rocker panels... Could it be that there is a huge soggy garbage pile behind it? Nah, I say the smart money is still on fender gnomes causing the rust...





I finally broke out the engine hoist to see what I was going to have to work with and guess what!?

On the 1/2ton setting harbor freights 2ton engine hoist doesn't even come close, the arm wasn't long enough... Tried from the front and from the side... Sure I could have kicked it out to the 1/4 ton and rolled-the-dice, but I'm really quite fond of all my toes

As a result a new plan was formulated and operation Fender Freedom commenced! ( In Next post...)

[delmontcrusier]

[quote=Coltonis;106648]After my initial push to get the engine out, it sat for nearly a month. I got tired of looking at it partially dismantled and decided to just get'r'done by myself. First thing I went after was trying to make a little more space for a precariously hoisted engine block.

(hmm better than one engine a family member lifted he used a floor joice and a comealong nice crease in the wood now from the weight can you say redneck)

[quote=
The plastic wheel wells turned out to be an easy pull. Just a few easy bolts in the fender and front clip. And then I wiggled it out through the engine bay.

[COLOR=blue](plastic hmm mine must be origional they are metal )[/color]









( nice tread on those tires looks like you were just about bumping them with your nose)

[quote=
AH, Now there is some room to breathe!


As a side note I also got to see first hand why the fenders always want to rust out down low inbetween the wheel well and the rocker panels... Could it be that there is a huge soggy garbage pile behind it? Nah, I say the smart money is still on fender gnomes causing the rust...

[COLOR=blue]( they did the same thing to my car little buggers)[/color]




[quote=
I finally broke out the engine hoist to see what I was going to have to work with and guess what!?

On the 1/2ton setting harbor freights 2ton engine hoist doesn't even come close, the arm wasn't long enough... Tried from the front and from the side... Sure I could have kicked it out to the 1/4 ton and rolled-the-dice, but I'm really quite fond of all my toes

( [COLOR=blue]ehh you don't need all of those my neighbor is missing a few and does just fine[/color])

[quote=
As a result a new plan was formulated and operation Fender Freedom commenced! ( In Next post...)[/quote]


(Hmm sounds like when my fenders were off dangit should have taken pics when I tore mine down in 07 shes comming along though I know your farther than these pics but gives a great story)

[Coltonis]

After deciding that it couldn't be THAT hard to get a fender off, I came home from work one night and set about "Making it so."

I wanted to get the last few bits of shiny trim off before I messed with fenders as the eyebrow trim was not in too terrible shape.


Semi-Tricky location to get to, luckily not much torque is needed for removing the little stamped steel nut-washers


Driver side is in fairly good condition.


Passenger could be better, oh well.


Easy-Peasy


Also found an excellent sampling of the original paint color hiding underneath...
Rally Red!


Next was the Front bumper. However getting a shiny chrome bumper off without an abrupt meet-and-greet with the wonderfully abrasive concrete is not quite a 1 person job. As a result I was unable to hold up the bumper AND disconnect the bolts AND take pictures...

I ended up loosening the rear bracket bolts and then removing the front bolts. This allowed the entire bumper to swing down gently. I then could remove the back bolts and rest it on the towels. I didn't even need to disconnect the parking lights since the wires had already been spliced


I guess it was about this point that my undiagnosed A.D.D. kicked in and I started working on the tranny instead.



Though I had already cracked the pan open to drain, it only was going to drain down to the lip of the pan. I knew this, mind you. When I started removing the bolts...


Though you can't see it in the pictures I did use the jack to support the pan so that i could then slowly lower the pan without spilling a 2 inch deep pan of ATF all over my carport. Well the pan came off...


Unfortunately, my jack decided to lower with a motion that I can only describe as "Ker-PLUNK"! You would be AMAZED at how much oil a stock tranny pan can hold... This resulting scene ensued:


I called it quits for the night shortly thereafter.

[citcapp]

You are using the tried and true method of nut and bolt identification right, throw everything in a 5 gallon bucket and shove in the corner and sort later right? Then you can lay it all out on the floor when your go to put things back together again and play name that bolt. I've heard thats they way all great car builders do it, or you can use baby food jars like Jamsbo does. All kidding aside it looks like you are making progress.

[Rdrokit]

Coltonis, I hope you are using some kind of method of keeping track of nuts & bolts besides a 5 gallon can. After many rebuilds i have found out the best and cheapest way is the zip lock bag and a magic marker for each section and a digital camera as I always forget how things go back together.

It might get to be a chore sometimes (think bitch) but the reward of the finish produce is well worth it.

[Yellowstatue]

When I take off or install the front bumper I sit on the floor with my feet under the engine and let the bumper rest in my lap and go from there...back bolts last for removal..

[Oldsguy]

Very interesting thread, I enjoy reading your posts too. They are a relief from so much fodder we see on the internet now with acronyms, no punctuation, mis-spellings, and made up words. Good thread, good pictures, lots of description.

[Coltonis]

LOL, I have to admit that along the way, I may have used a ZipLoc ...or two.


However, the general quality of the fastening hardware I have been removing thus far I would have to classify as just a half step shy of "...meh...". I plan on replacing A LOT of it.

I still have plenty of mystery parts to play with, For Instance:

**Ding,Ding** Name that part round two:

...I'll take mystery ports for 200, Alex!

(Notice the extra flange that is capped?)



My best guess at the moment is:

[Coltonis]

Originally Posted by Oldsguy

Very interesting thread, I enjoy reading your posts too. They are a relief from so much fodder we see on the internet now with acronyms, no punctuation, mis-spellings, and made up words. Good thread, good pictures, lots of description.

Excellent! Thank you, I truly appreciate the kind words.

[Bunser]

I recognize the "cap" on the passenger's side exhaust manifold.I'd bet it came from Year One.The excellent "welding work" gives it away!

PS
Keep up the good work with your project postings! Good stuff!

[Bluevista]

Looking good.
I say that's where the W83.089 turbocharger attaches to the manifold. GNX?who needs a stinkin' GNX?
That looks like Vinnie from down the street did the welding, maybe he works for Year One?

You should have used that container you have the baggies in under the tranny pan to catch the fluid. I always thought the catch thing at the gas station we used in the oil drain for that would make a great hood scoop.

Kid wading pools are cheap and work great for that dripping dirty stuff, and you can take a cool dip when your finished for the day too.

[Garbled]

Excellent post! You are on quite the adventure with your rebuild. Keep up the good work.

[jturkey69]

Im loving the thread, and especially the cynical words, and journalistic approach...I sense a future in some magazine or another..lol....this is Friebergers beginnings ...lol

This thread not only has giving a stomach ache from laughing so much at a computer screen due to your humor, but it has also made me look at my daunting task of making a fun, reliable, safe driver out of our new project a little bit easier for my wife and me.

Thanks, and keep up the great work!

[Coltonis]

LOL, glad I can appease.

To tell the truth I really got a lot of motivation to get things actually started on my car by reading gearheads78's project thread. I liked how he always had lots of pictures and you could really see things take shape on his car.

He just finished up on his 66 not too long ago though and I was like, "Crap, I guess I'll just have to start my own project now..."

(PS Anybody got more info on the designed purpose of that extra exhaust port? Is it common knowledge and I just haven't searched hard enough or what?)

Alright, on to the good stuff, more pictures! So when I left off last time I think it was right before I got my fenders off.

I was finally able to get an early start on a Friday not too long ago (notice the daylight; yeah dinner time is early for me...) and remove the few bolts holding the actual sheet metal on.


Safely set aside upon a "storage towel"


Once the other side was removed I realized that there wasn't much else holding that front clip on...


You could always tell up close that someone had Bondoed the bottom of both the fenders, but the only thing I could ever tell from the outside was how crappy Bondo can look. The rust it was no doubt covering had always been a mystery.


Looking from the inside I finally got to see what rust was lurking, And I have to say "I'll take it!". I'm pretty sure I can repair it no problem now, and the cash register ringing in my ears at the thought of needing to buy new fenders is slowly starting to fade.


Speaking of Rust... Here is the only reason anyone should ever need, to not stick your hand in dark places to clean out the garbage that has collected in your fenders.


The body is in a little worse shape. An actual through hole has formed, but I still think it will be okay as that spot doesn't get seen so i will just need to weld in something that "works" as opposed to "looks pretty too".

(For those wondering that card in the the fender muck turned out to be somebodies Social Services Identification card!)

Half a can of WD40, a very large socket wrench, and one sheared core support bolt later... The front clip was off!

NOTE on Bushings: You can just barely see in the above pic at the bottom of the front clip the square topped bushings that cushion it on the frame. Apparently the square bushings are specific to Olds (and maybe, Buicks too... I forget what i read) where as all other A-Bodies had round topped bushings there. Some Cutlass Body Bushing Kits sold that claim to include core support bushings do not have the right ones for Olds. Though the round core support bushings will physically work(I think), its not "Correct" for those that care about that kinda thing. USA Parts Supply claims to have the correct square bushings for like $16 so its not a big deal to me. (Mine are TOAST!)

NOW, if the hoist still doesn't reach, I'm gonna return it through Harbor Freight's front window like the discount tire lady...


...Lucky them.


I wanted the Hoist tensioned just in case i undid the wrong bolt and needed it to "catch" an engine. What I didn't anticipate having to "catch" was the starter...


Mine was not light... or fun to hold with one hand... above my head.
Its out now though!


Removing it made spinning the Torque converter and fly wheel much easier.
Absolutely neccessary for removing those three little bolts that, you know, just transfer all the power from engine to tranny...BRILLIANT!

Way back when my friend was helping me he had said that if we were going to do "just" the engine we would need to slide the tranny back away from the engine to get the engine out. I was still thinking I would need to do this at this point in my process so I put some jack stands to hold the front of the transmission and loosened the tranny tail support cross beam so there was some play.


I was quite surprised when I finished removing all of the bell housing bolts and nothing budged ... or would budge for that matter.


Simply could not get that tranny to slide back, even though there was room for it. I lifted it a bit with the jack thinking it had pinched with the block somehow and even gently pried a bit, no joy.

[Coltonis]

I've noticed a trend going over these pictures that when I work really late into the night I start suddenly working on random bits that really have nothing to do with what I'm trying to accomplish. It was some where along the path of getting the tranny slid back that I thought that maybe something on top of the transmission was catching preventing me from sliding it back...

I'm gonna chalk this one up to that, I guess, as I started dismantling the center console...yeeeaah.


Nothing even remotely interfering with the transmission, but I did find...


Kinda glad I found this one as the last thing I want, is to one day try and fire her up for the first time and be greeted by internal fireworks due to Joe Bob's Electrical Riggin'.


With the console out I wiggled loose the front carpet that had been ever-so-gently chucked in there by the guy I bought the car from. I was on the hunt for rust.


What I found was something ELSE...


It wasn't till after I looked over the pictures that I was able to extrapolate just what I was looking at. I think I have a pretty good working theory now... I have diagrammed everything below.





...Don't worry the authorities have already been notified

Since I was too scared to work in the interior anymore I went back to actually getting the engine out. I finally said, "screw the tranny"... (*snicker-snicker*, I apologize for that joke.) ...and I made sure the hoist was taught on the engine, there was plenty of equipment to catch the transmission, and started undoing engine mount bolts... slowly.


I finally found the *ka-chunk* I was looking for..
*tchk*"Houston, we have primary rocket seperation, over."*tchk*


Upon, rolling back my newly liberated engine it promptly showed me what it thought about me by wizzing coolant all over my shiny new engine hoist.


Between being over excited about getting the engine out and highly nervous about dangling 600lbs of american iron from 90lbs of chineseium I forgot to take any pictures of it dangling from the chain... Sorry.

However, if that hoist was "dicey", then this engine stand was like a "Las Vegas Craps Tournament". It bounces on the stand.


So, what did my cheap-a$$ do about it? Thats right... Nothing. Just went right on using it. LOL




It was right about this time I started looking at this sight and thought to myself, "Huh, that frame is pretty dirty. I wonder how much work it would be to get the body off..."

[Jamesbo]

Great pics Thanks fer sharing your story.

[Lady72nRob71]

I have been enjoying this thread, though i have not posted much.
Like myself, I try to make the work ammusing and fun, to make it more enjoyable - even in tough times. Beer and sarcasm helps, too...

Your fenders look a lot better than mine...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robsalb...7602930020786/
I found mucho crap in mine also.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robsalb...7602930020786/

When i redid my interior I noticed the same claw marks inside - bear cubs must like Oldsmobiles...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robsalb...7602930020786/

Looks like that body will be coming off soon!

BTW, that extra exhaust port was for the crossover pipe that was to go under the oil pan. Looks like your pipe was removed / relocated and it was capped. Mine is like that - the PO changed to dual exhaust.

Keep up the good work!

[Schober Motorsports]

Originally Posted by Coltonis

It was right about this time I started looking at this sight and thought to myself, "Huh, that frame is pretty dirty. I wonder how much work it would be to get the body off..."

Haha thats exactly what I thought when I was looking at mine when I got the front end all off!

[scubastever]

Originally Posted by Schober Motorsports

Haha thats exactly what I thought when I was looking at mine when I got the front end all off!

HAHAHA PLUS 2!!

[citcapp]

Once you start to uncover the ugly most of us just can't stop thats how frame offs come into being. Don't ask why I know this

[scubastever]

Originally Posted by citcapp

Once you start to uncover the ugly most of us just can't stop thats how frame offs come into being. Don't ask why I know this

precisely how this came to be!

[Coltonis]

Originally Posted by Lady72nRob71

BTW, that extra exhaust port was for the crossover pipe that was to go under the oil pan. Looks like your pipe was removed / relocated and it was capped. Mine is like that - the PO changed to dual exhaust.

Sweet, thats what I was looking for... 200 points to Lady72nRob71!!

As for frame off, I still haven't gotten that far yet... for one I am running out of space to store crap right quick. And not much point in pulling it apart until I'm sure what I want to do to it.

If I do go that route (and I'm pretty sure I want to), I really think I want to get media blast + powder coat done on alot of the suspension. For sure the frame, probably front and rear control arms, not sure if they can do driveshaft and differential, maybe front Clip. Anyone care to share their good/bad experiences?

I was thinking POR15 at first, but got to looking and for a gallon worth of paint and all the other prep chemicals they recommend, it was something like ~$300. (I forget if that was including a top coat paint or not) Which is almost as much as the ballpark numbers I was finding while googling for powder coating the frame. I need to call some powder coaters around the valley here to get a better idea of prices though.

I was thinking powder coating would be $,$$$ but if i could actually get it done for the $300-$500 range and never need to worry about it again might as well, right?

[delmontcrusier]

as long as it doesn't get chipped of damaged powder coat is very strong and durable.The por 15 is ok but we have found that if the surface isn't just right it peels we have had it happen.The sad part is on the can it says paint over rust and is said to not peel.we tried different ways bare metal works the best but wire brushed or sanded to clean off any loose or really ruff stuff works well.We have a guy in our car club that does powder coating but it is for smaller things.

[Warhead]

Ah, the real reason for the evap core's removal, was to remove the leaking heater core. IMHO.
Lots of rust in the floorpan to support this theory, and the fleeing clawing roaches left their escape marks too.
A worthy project, great pictures, and a good humorous attitude to go with makes this a joyus read. First time I had caught it, and I had a good laugh to say the least.

How is the short block, and who is doing the work???

Jim in Phx.

[Coltonis]

Originally Posted by Warhead

Ah, the real reason for the evap core's removal, was to remove the leaking heater core. IMHO.
Lots of rust in the floorpan to support this theory, and the fleeing clawing roaches left their escape marks too.
A worthy project, great pictures, and a good humorous attitude to go with makes this a joyus read. First time I had caught it, and I had a good laugh to say the least.

How is the short block, and who is doing the work???

Jim in Phx.

Yeah I was pretty bummed when I realized I was missing the heater box.

The inside is interesting. There is plenty of surface rust, but looks to be solid save for a spot or two, its really tough to tell right now since even the solid metal is painted the rusty red color. Also, there is this weird goop that is rust colored, but about the consistancy of cold laffy-taffy. That's what the floorpan I circled is caked with. Not sure if its the remnants of old tar absorption pads or seam sealer that got washed down there or some sort of epoxy somebody poured in there.

I did start to dismantle the engine, but didn't go too far and haven't done much since. I took pictures of it all, but haven't posted them yet. I will probably do that soon. Since I have never done any of this before all the more seasoned eyes on this forum are bound to catch things i've missed. (Already have in fact!)

I'm fairly adament on doing as much of the work I possibly can myself. I just figure if somebody else in this world knows how to do something, then I should learn how to do it too...

I do plan to send it out to a machine shop though for the stuff that is just not finanicially prudent to do myself. Probably need to seek one out very soon and see what they recommend. At the very least I figure they will have to check the wear and true up any surfaces that need it.

I have been meaning to call up a family member I'm related to..(well lets see he's my Grandma's Sister's Son - so that would make him my Dad's Cousin, and my ????--well he's family...) Since I was knee high I remeber everyone talked about him and his old cars. I didn't realize quite how big of a car guy he was until I went to his house a few month's ago and got to see his all original Shelby Cobra in the garage. I'm sure he could point me in some good directions, I just feel bad pestering the poor guy and haven't called him yet...

Wow.... 4AM.... I really ramble when I'm tired...

[t bell]

x4 or 5 on the frame off body. Currently putting mine back together because, dangit, I wanna drive it.

[Coltonis]

I think I figured out what the root of my engine problem was!

I definitely want you guys to take a look at this set of pictures in particular and hopefully confirm my theory.

These are some of the most recent pictures of my progress.

With the engine out and now poised on its alarmingly springy stand, I wanted to start to dismantle and see how much carnage I was actually looking at.


There was plenty of carnage in the thermostat housing.


Working my way down, the Distributor needed to come out next. I wasn't expecting to see the long hex shaft come with it though. I assume it drives something lower in the engine.


While taking the pictures the hex shaft fell out of the distributor. I guess it doesn't come out with the distributor usually, because there aren't usually stickers left on the hex shaft when its installed to get smooshed and cause the shaft to stick in the distributor's gear.


With everything out of its way the manifold could come off. While undoing bolts I noticed the front two manifold "bolts" were actually threaded shaft with nuts... I guess they are "extra" special. (Is that normal?)



Sad to say, but Liquid Nails can't hold a candle to the adhesive qualities of 40 years of baked on Oil/Dirt/Rat Poop; Even with every last bolt removed that manifold wasn't goin' no where.


Taapa-tappa-tapah!


At this point I think I was expecting to find a mummy...


Oldsmobile must have been really scared of mummies too, cause they made that lid EXTRA HEAVY.


No-freaking-wonder the "good" ones are aluminum, jeez.


After I battled the mummy... the first thing I noticed about the inside of my engine was the "flaky black crackle" in the turkey tray. Looked just like the crap you scrape off your BBQ.


The next thing i noticed was the "golden" passageways



The familiar black gummy stuff, same as the black gummy worms I pulled out of my oil returns, started to tip me off.


And when you really stand back and look, its kinda obvious what went wrong in my engine.


Thus my theory is that the manifold wasn't properly sealed to the heads and that allowed the water jackets to leak (pour) coolant down inside my engine and mix with the oil. The "flaky black crackle" is left over from the coolant boiling on the turkey tray, this explains my mysterious white smoke when I ran it. The gummy goo is what the oil turned into when it mixed with the coolant and is probably clogging every oil hole in the block!

I'm guessing this all stems from somebody trying to re-use the turkey tray valley pan gasket.

I did some research on coolant leaking into the block and came up with, due to the oil coagulating, general heat related failures being common. Also mentioned was mixing the two liquids can form various corrosive solutions. That would be a double-whammy for pretty much every type of bearing in the block, plus possible scoring of the piston rods and crankshaft. ( I didn't even want to know what it would do to mummies )

So what do you guys think? Am I barking up the right tree, so far?

[J-(Chicago)]

Ugh. Looks like you're in for 1 heck of a ride there. Been there. Keep up the good work.
Also, There are 2 retaining clips that are supposed to keep that hex shaft from coming out with the distributor. They are now in your oil somewhere, or were removed years ago.
The threaded studs on the intake are normal, and for bracketry.

[scubastever]

have you drained the pan yet?

if the oil comes out looking more like vanilla pudding- yep you have a coolant mixture problem.

sometimes the mixture can actuially separate..

you will remove the oil pan drain plug and swoosh ! out comes green coolant, followed by oil.

in either case, you will probabaly have a set of scored bearings on your hands. (coolant is a lousy lubricator)

get to know a machinist- or learn to use plasti-gauge to measure the clearances before you decide your next steps.

theres no use paintin' & chromin' up an engine that will end up knocking itself to death.

[citcapp]

Yep, your in for a rebuild. The shaft runs the oil pump. Take her the rest of the way down and take the block to a machine shop to have it checked out for cracks and the bore. Then you will have an idea of where to go next. Good luck

[Warhead]

Do not forget...Elephant Engine Ernie wore a truss for a reason.
Manifold will make decent power, though not as much as the aluminum ones, it's just reeeel heavy.
I do not see real evidence of coolant per se in the manifold area.
No rust in the intake ports (damned good thing).

***I would liked to see what a leakdown test would show for cylinder sealing.***

Hopefully, no one has screwed up the bottom end to much.
The oil pump drive must be installed from the bottom with the pump, usually gets stuck in the distributor, and comes out like yours did.
When do you plan to disassemble?
I have some neat rod bolt covers if you need them during tear down, or you can use 3/8ths fuel line cut in to 3" lengths.
Keep an eye out for rod markings from previous "mechanics", no markings are usually factory installed.
Get a couple of benches in that carport, and some coffee cans for the sludgy bolts. You can clean those with carb cleaner.
Send me a note if you need help.
Jim in Phx.