69 H/O vs 70 442

[freebird72]

Of the two above cars, which do you think was the best. To compare lets say the 69 H/O has every performance option and the 70 442 has every performance option, or what every options you believe would be the best. Which do you think would be the best street machine. Please tell why you feel the way you do. Thank you.

[jensenracing77]

tough call. i like them both but was told that the 69 H/O would be faster. i have no idea if this is true. i would think they would be close enough that it would be personal preference.

[Ice]

Cant wait to read about this.

[Lady72nRob71]

I would like both equally, due to each having their own pros and cons.
Hopefully someone who owns both of them will be able give their experiences.

BTW, I consolidated the three duplicate thread into this one to keep things neat.

[freebird72]

I only made 3 so I could get more information. I need as much info as I can get. Lady72 would it be ok to put one in the 442 section? And you said they both have their pros and cons, can you tell me what those are?

[csstrux]

Lets just keep it simple...otherwise we will be merging them at a later date.

[agtw31]

rusty small's 69 h/o runs 13.20's(has a/c),and darrell detweiler's 71 w-30 runs 12.70's in pure stock.

both running 4.10 gear,i believe.

that's factual data.

a manual steering 69 h/o ran 14 flat in the top 10 musclecar show on speed,but it was a show poodle.

[freebird72]

Does anybody else have information? This has been dead for a while. I just want to know which one do you think would be a better street car and why you think so? Just your opinion.

[Bluevista]

It seems like nobody wants to touch this with a ten foot pole.
It's like asking which one of your kids you like best here.

I was looking at my Oldsmobile 4-4-2 and W-Machines resto guide and the specs arent that much different. The '69 has a little (10) more horsepower but it and the torque are at a lower RPM, they weigh the same. The horsepower numbers were manipulated for insurance companies so you really don't know what to believe, more than likely that both years really had more horsepower than advertised.
The guide's author thinks that 1970 was the peak year for Olds performance.
It was also the year GM removed the limit on cubic inches (so they werent looking to go slower).
The fiberglass hood, spoiler, and the aluminum rear end housing made the 1970 special according to the author too.

It seems like in 1970 everything was really fast. I rode to vacation bible school in a brand new '70 LS6 Chevelle.
That beast was just about the fastest thing I was ever in out of the box and the only reason I went, (the girls and free food helped a little too).

Have to get 2 factory stock cars that have never been touched or modified to the strip and have one guy drive them to really find out.

[joe_padavano]

Originally Posted by freebird72

Does anybody else have information? This has been dead for a while. I just want to know which one do you think would be a better street car and why you think so? Just your opinion.

The "better" street car is all relative. First, the dirty little secret is that in 1970 the W-30 would have come with one of two different cams, depending on whether the car was an AT or MT. How both got the same HP rating is still a mystery of marketing. The 69 H/O was always intended to be a "gentleman's hot rod" so by definition it would have been a cushier ride. Having said that, the amount of luxury would still be subject to the options selected. My 69 H/O was a relative stripper - no A/C, no power options. Again, the extra HP is a mystery given the fact that the H/O had a less radical cam than the MT W-30.

When optioned the same, the two cars should be virtually identical.

[freebird72]

Once again I would like to hear ANYBODY'S input. You do not have to know for sure; I just want your opinion as to way you feel the way you do.

[344870M]

The '70 Olds. Absolutely. Hands down. No ifs, ands or buts. JK.
I have no idea why I think that.

Good question though. I didn't realize this thread existed when I posted my thread "Don't want to stir the pot..."

I really like the H/O. I really do. But I think; and this is just my personal opinion, the two cars that should be questioned are the '66 W-30 and the '70 W-30. Only because I think both these cars had drive train options that made them quite formidable. The H/O's were limited by transmission choices (auto only albeit a GREAT ONE), internal engine components (W-30 M/T & S/T cams) and gear ratios. The W's could be had with 4:66's and 5:1's (mine has 4:33's and they're stupid steep). I believe the H/O was only available with 3:91's. Please correct me if I am wrong. I like to know that what (I think) I know is true.

[WhatIf]

I would say the 70 W-30 is a classier car. This is of course when we're only presented two choices!! Comparing these two, the H/O is wilder and more graphically done, but there are some that think it's a bit overdone. I think as far as engines go I would have to lean towards the 70 W-30 because of the cam, heads, carb, 'glass hood, optional aluminum rear.

[83hurstguy]

'70 442 should be able to take it... H/O's are HEAVY cars. Even when they weren't optioned out, H/O's were still a non-post car, buckets, console, etc.... the other thing is that the H/O's either get 3.23 or 3.90 rear gears, no other options "stock".

442's have an advantage that you can have a '70 sport coupe (post), with bench seat and a 4 speed (or column shift), minimal options, plain steel wheels, etc... should be able to walk an H/O just due to weight. With a W-30, you also get an aluminum intake manifold.

For the most part, they all tend to run about the same (in the 13's) at the Pure Stock drags... it's really up to the owner for how much the car has been tuned and tweaked for optimal performance.

[344870M]

We definitely need to assume that there is a competent driver behind the wheel. I know for a fact that when he was in his prime, my dad could get more out of my W than I ever could. He wasn't afraid of breaking anything. Of course it wasn't his so......

[Cameo White]

Just a minor correction on the 69 H/O gears--reiterating from the "don't want to stir the pot" thread:

http://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/...t-curious.html

The 69 H/O had 3 possible rear end ratios:

Standard on the A/C cars was a 3.23
Standard on the non-A/C cars was a 3.42
Optional on the non-A/C cars was a 3.91

This information is from a photocopy of a Hurst document dated April 7, 1969.

[344870M]

Originally Posted by Cameo White

Just a minor correction on the 69 H/O gears--reiterating from the "don't want to stir the pot" thread:

http://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/...t-curious.html

The 69 H/O had 3 possible rear end ratios:

Standard on the A/C cars was a 3.23
Standard on the non-A/C cars was a 3.42
Optional on the non-A/C cars was a 3.91

This information is from a photocopy of a Hurst document dated April 7, 1969.

Thanks. I meant to say that there was a ceiling on the ratios of 3:91. Nothing steeper than that available. Thanks for the correction.

[wmachine]

I really can't believe there are all these answers to a question that that is so vague that it can't be answered without some *huge* presumptions.
What the heck is "best"? Best what? Favorite? Seems most are presuming that he means "best et in the 1/4 mile", yet he says "street machine". Okay, now what the $%# is a "street machine"? I don't even know what we are debating here.........

I feel like we are all dogs and he just faked throwing a stick for us to fetch and we're all running after it..............

[344870M]

Maybe there should be a CO.com glossary. This way words like

original, factory, stock, restored, musclecar, street machine,land yacht, fast, quick, build sheet (there's one for ya) etc... the asker; or the answerer, would have a "go to" place to help clarify.

The definitions don't have to be correct or acceptable just there for the poster. If we want to define "musclecar" as "any pink Olds made between '75 & '76" while not widely agreed upon it would be "our" vernacular.

This way the more controversial threads would follow a straighter and less all encompassing line.

[ent72olds]

Originally Posted by wmachine

I really can't believe there are all these answers to a question that that is so vague that it can't be answered without some *huge* presumptions.
What the heck is "best"? Best what? Favorite? Seems most are presuming that he means "best et in the 1/4 mile", yet he says "street machine". Okay, now what the $%# is a "street machine"? I don't even know what we are debating here.........

I feel like we are all dogs and he just faked throwing a stick for us to fetch and we're all running after it..............

...thought the same...needs to be more specific I think!

[freebird72]

Street Machine(in my words, the poster): The kind of car that one does not want to sit next too at a red light. The kind of car that one uses for street racing. A car that can go fast in a straight line while taking curves without going out of control. The best overall car for any situation.

I just want to know if you had the option to have one, which one would you want(other than for resale value). If anyone needs any more info for what I am asking please feel free to ask.

I always figured that the 442 was better in terms of handling. The H/O in terms of straight line power, I heard somewhere that they ran high 11's with everything stock other than a set of headers( I heard this, I am not stating this).


Thank you.

[mugzilla]

I have a rallye red 70 442 and on the street it is awesome ...

Everyone looks at it and comments on it and wants to race it ...

Due in part to the most snorkely looking snorkels to come down the pike ...

The 69 though has equally snorkely snorkles ...

The 70 rear quarter panel is in a class by itself ...

I would rate best street by ability to attract the opposite sex and that should be a toss-up ...

Tough choice and I would be happy with either ...

or both ...

[344870M]

Please define "snorkely snorkles".

[Jamesbo]

Every seen a bunch of guys on a Sunday afternoon standing outside in the yard or driveway staring at the engine of the car with the hood raised.

That's where these conversation took place before we had forums.

[mugzilla]

Originally Posted by 344870M

Please define "snorkely snorkles".

Let's just say they are prominent ...

...

[firefrost gold]

i liked w machines post . I would take either one. That being said the h/o has
15" wheels vs the 70's 14's wouldnt that be a plus in a drag and a curve? The post would be better if it was say a 69 h/o and a gto judge or a 70 w-30 and a gsx or judge .

[Allan R]

Originally Posted by freebird72

Of the two above cars, which do you think was the best. To compare lets say the 69 H/O has every performance option and the 70 442 has every performance option, or what every options you believe would be the best. Which do you think would be the best street machine. Please tell why you feel the way you do. Thank you.

If they were both equal in every way, they'd be the same car. So it really comes down to body style doesn't it?

I'd go with the 70 mostly because I like the body style and aggressive looking stance just a little better. IMO, 70 was the pinnacle year of 442 production and it's the one that I would want to have new out of the box as a special order to keep forever.

[mugzilla]

Originally Posted by firefrost gold

i liked w machines post . I would take either one. That being said the h/o has
15" wheels vs the 70's 14's wouldnt that be a plus in a drag and a curve? The post would be better if it was say a 69 h/o and a gto judge or a 70 w-30 and a gsx or judge .

Smaller diameter = higher ratio ...

[svnt442]

Not really. Just because the rims were smaller doesn't mean that the tire diameter was smaller.

[firefrost gold]

the 69 h/o's f-60x15 is 2" wider than the w-30 g-70-14

[Cameo White]

Hey Firefrost, you got an H/O?

[mugzilla]

Originally Posted by svnt442

Not really. Just because the rims were smaller doesn't mean that the tire diameter was smaller.

The thicker tire will grow more for top end speed ...

[svnt442]

Not significantly enough to make a difference.
And that would mean the 14" tires were better for top end. Not really.

[firefrost gold]

mr white as to the do I have a h/o sorry to say not Yet. I have a 66 pontiac lemans with a 400 and a th 350 nice driver but not my dream car.
have wanted one for many years If I find the right car I am in a spot to get it now and could pull the trigger missed one a few years backl that was local bruce bisping of mn had it it went to tx i think that one stings
was a nice car too

[WhatIf]

The 15" H/O wheels would also be heavier than the 1970 14" wheels. Not much, maybe 5 pounds each wheel.

Now styling is subjective, we all have our favorites. I'm partial to the 70 body a little more, but there's nothing wrong with the 69 H/O! I think the 70 could be optioned out better, and you have far more selections, so that may give the edge to the 70. I would think that if someone were to order:

- 1970 W-30 - you get the fiberglass hood, plastic inner fenders, scooped hood...
- 4-speed - and you get the wild 328 cam
- manual brakes, manual steering
- 4.33 gears
- W-27 rear end
- delete sound deadener
- delete radio
- get the dog dish wheels (the lightest) with hubcaps

I'm not sure, but I don't think these things were available on the H/O, were they? Ordering a 70 W-30 this way wouldn't make for a great daily driver, but I think nose-to-nose it would be faster than the 69 H/O.

Did they make any "stripper" H/O's? I saw on that Dream Car Garage show they had one with manual steering which I didn't even know you could get in a 69 H/O.

[344870M]

Originally Posted by WhatIf

- 4-speed
- manual brakes, manual steering
- 4.33 gears


Ordering a 70 W-30 this way wouldn't make for a great daily driver...

You hit that nail on the head.

[firefrost gold]

what has run the fastest at a pure stock race?

[mugzilla]

Originally Posted by svnt442

Not significantly enough to make a difference.
And that would mean the 14" tires were better for top end. Not really.

I am leaning towards 15s as soon as I burn through my current tires ...

[svnt442]

I have 15" SSIII 87 442 rims on mine right now. I have the original 14" SSIs that need to be restored and new rubber put on them. Not sure what I'm going to do with them at this point as doing a "perfect" resto just isn't in the cards. The original 455 and TH 400 were gone when I got the car so I have a little freedom to do what I want.

[firefrost gold]

the 69 h/o weight 3870 the 70 w-30 weight 3887 with a w=27 and w-25