matching numbers

maddog · February 7th, 2009, 03:01 PM

hello everyone i am new to this forum. i just bought a 1970 cutlass convertible that with a 350 rocket motor and automatic on the floor that needs some work. the car runs great and need very little body work.( i still can't believe i only paid 2000.00 for it). it even has a new black top. my first question is how do i tell if the numbers match with the car? my other cars are 71 mbg, 65 american rambler, 78 gmc pick up.
thanks for any help you can give me.
ron

joe_padavano · February 7th, 2009, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maddog

hello everyone i am new to this forum. i just bought a 1970 cutlass convertible that with a 350 rocket motor and automatic on the floor that needs some work. the car runs great and need very little body work.( i still can't believe i only paid 2000.00 for it). it even has a new black top. my first question is how do i tell if the numbers match with the car? my other cars are 71 mbg, 65 american rambler, 78 gmc pick up.
thanks for any help you can give me.
ron

There is a VIN derivative stamped on the block and trans case. It is a nine character number. The first character will match the first character of the VIN and the last eight of the VIN derivative will match the last eight of the VIN. The VIN derivative on the block is located on a pad on the driver's side of the block, just below and forward of the no. 1 exhaust port. This pad is usually partly obscured by the PS pump bracket. The trans VIN derivative is located on the passenger side of the trans, just above the pan gasket.

stellar · February 18th, 2009, 03:36 PM

Maddog I can only help with alt and starter stamps Alt should be 1100891 and 1100852 starter should be 1108386 w/350lo comp or 1108348 w/350 hi comp.

Oldsguy · February 19th, 2009, 05:49 AM

Maddog, welcome to our site. Have fun!

mugzilla · February 22nd, 2009, 11:18 PM

important #s are block and transmission with actual matching #s on each ...

Other #s to look for are im,portznt for establishing "Original" parts. AS you go through

the car there will be date and parts numbers . Eg. the exhaust for a w-machine will have Letter code specific to that model. Other numbers like the carb sshould match the car as it is stamped to indicate whether it is for a stick car etc.

Other numbers to look for are date stamps. This shows the progression of assembly. The head should not have a date later than the engine date. I am going through my engine compartment and I will document and take a pic of any #s I see.

joe_padavano · February 23rd, 2009, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mugzilla

important #s are block and transmission with actual matching #s on each ...

Other #s to look for are im,portznt for establishing "Original" parts. AS you go through

the car there will be date and parts numbers . Eg. the exhaust for a w-machine will have Letter code specific to that model. Other numbers like the carb sshould match the car as it is stamped to indicate whether it is for a stick car etc.

Other numbers to look for are date stamps. This shows the progression of assembly. The head should not have a date later than the engine date. I am going through my engine compartment and I will document and take a pic of any #s I see.

This is all good info, but keep in mind that just because a date code falls within the right timeframe isn't proof that the parts are original. The whole point of the "numbers matching" hysteria is to prove that key components are the same ones that the car was born with. This is financially important to some people. Unfortunately, as values go up, so does the technology for faking this "proof". Corvette restorers are famous for spending insane amounts of money for properly date-coded parts. Unfortunately, that still doesn't make the car original, so what's the point?

Bluevista · February 23rd, 2009, 10:21 AM

If the date codes fall in the correct range how do you prove that parts aren't original?
The only true originals you can believe in are the cars you can see with your own eyes about a foot off the assembly line.

mugzilla · February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe_padavano

This is all good info, but keep in mind that just because a date code falls within the right timeframe isn't proof that the parts are original. The whole point of the "numbers matching" hysteria is to prove that key components are the same ones that the car was born with. This is financially important to some people. Unfortunately, as values go up, so does the technology for faking this "proof". Corvette restorers are famous for spending insane amounts of money for properly date-coded parts. Unfortunately, that still doesn't make the car original, so what's the point?

Correct numbers car vs Original ...

If you look for original in a Olds you better get documentation ...

joe_padavano · February 23rd, 2009, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluevista

If the date codes fall in the correct range how do you prove that parts aren't original?
The only true originals you can believe in are the cars you can see with your own eyes about a foot off the assembly line.

My point exactly.

mugzilla · February 23rd, 2009, 12:18 PM

Without a factory document like Ponchos' have, the Olds enthusiast must employ all the information available to authenticate a cars originality...

I'm lucky in that the value of my non-w car does not support hanky panky ...

( I like how the word "originality" infers that the car is not original)

mugzilla · February 23rd, 2009, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluevista

If the date codes fall in the correct range how do you prove that parts aren't original?
The only true originals you can believe in are the cars you can see with your own eyes about a foot off the assembly line.

You CAN show that a part IS wrong though ...

For cars in my price range that is enough for me ...

February 7th, 2009, 03:01 PM	#1 (permalink)
maddog New User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1	matching numbers hello everyone i am new to this forum. i just bought a 1970 cutlass convertible that with a 350 rocket motor and automatic on the floor that needs some work. the car runs great and need very little body work.( i still can't believe i only paid 2000.00 for it). it even has a new black top. my first question is how do i tell if the numbers match with the car? my other cars are 71 mbg, 65 american rambler, 78 gmc pick up. thanks for any help you can give me. ron

February 19th, 2009, 05:49 AM	#4 (permalink)
Oldsguy Hot Rodder at heart Administrator Join Date: May 2004 Location: Lees Summit MO Posts: 5,360	Maddog, welcome to our site. Have fun! __________________ Dan '77 Cutlass Supreme '46 2 door "The rocket 455.....it's a sledgehammer approach to a thumbtack world" LuxBlue of HAMB.

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February 18th, 2009, 03:36 PM	#3 (permalink)
stellar Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 56	Maddog I can only help with alt and starter stamps Alt should be 1100891 and 1100852 starter should be 1108386 w/350lo comp or 1108348 w/350 hi comp.

February 22nd, 2009, 11:18 PM	#5 (permalink)
mugzilla is Fast Enough ... Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: dogtown Posts: 849	important #s are block and transmission with actual matching #s on each ... Other #s to look for are im,portznt for establishing "Original" parts. AS you go through the car there will be date and parts numbers . Eg. the exhaust for a w-machine will have Letter code specific to that model. Other numbers like the carb sshould match the car as it is stamped to indicate whether it is for a stick car etc. Other numbers to look for are date stamps. This shows the progression of assembly. The head should not have a date later than the engine date. I am going through my engine compartment and I will document and take a pic of any #s I see.

February 23rd, 2009, 10:21 AM	#7 (permalink)
Bluevista Cruisin' the Vistas Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Northeast Ohio Posts: 1,724	If the date codes fall in the correct range how do you prove that parts aren't original? The only true originals you can believe in are the cars you can see with your own eyes about a foot off the assembly line.

February 23rd, 2009, 12:18 PM	#10 (permalink)
mugzilla is Fast Enough ... Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: dogtown Posts: 849	Without a factory document like Ponchos' have, the Olds enthusiast must employ all the information available to authenticate a cars originality... I'm lucky in that the value of my non-w car does not support hanky panky ... ( I like how the word "originality" infers that the car is not original)