442much

OK. This morning I went and picked up a 1000 lbs. four point engine stand. I went to the guys acreage and we loaded the engine onto to the truck I borrowed from work. He was selling a 1973 Olds 455 as per his ad on Kijiji.

Since the fellow lived about 5-10 minutes from me, he followed me home and unloaded the engine with his hoist that he brought along.

The engine came complete. I checked and now am as confused as ever. The serial number on the pad says 33M123193. That would suggest that the engine is a 1973, or was installed in a 1973 car.

DSC_4847.jpg

Here's where it gets weird. Look at the engine casting.....where the little "A" if it's a 1973 block?

DSC_4848.jpg

This looks like a 1968-72 block. Of course I suppose it could be a late 1972 block that was installed in a 73? Also the font is not the same as the 1968-72 blocks I've seen before. It does have "J" heads.

I checked behind the distributor and saw the numbers "173". Could that mean Jan 1973 or the 173rd day of 1973 which would put it as built in June (of 1973?). I'm not sure.

DSC_4849.jpg

Also, where the torque converter was, I saw the following "68" and under that "F4". Could this be a 1968 engine?

DSC_4850.jpg

Also the intake says "Oldsmobile" and there is a "W" on it. It's not the W455 but just a "W". Perhaps it's a shift, or a plant? The intake part no. is 412753 which I believe indicates a 1973/74 4 bbl manifold. There is also a "Y" near that part number.

DSC_4857.jpg

It has dual exhaust manifolds. One has a "Z" one has an "X".

I picked it up for $300 and he brought his hoist to my house, unloaded it and secured it to the stand. Any ideas on the numbers not jivin' on the block? Or maybe they do?

Few more shots of the 455.

DSC_4858.jpg

DSC_4861.jpg

DSC_4860.jpg

DSC_4865.jpg

72 cutlass455

Sometimes they used what they had in stock at the time. 68-72 block and 73 heads not that much of a stretch. The J heads do have hardened valve seats for no lead or low lead fuel.

442much

I know that anything is possible. However if true, then the info that is written about this that I've ever seen that says 396021F is for 68-72 and 396021Fa is for 72-76 is wrong. We'll have to modify our advice and say the above is true but there are known exceptions.

2blu442

The valve covers that have OLDSMOBILE stamped in them were also used in 1973-74. The Z is the same as used in 1969-72 A-body cars. What's the casting number on the "X"? I know the full sized of that vintage used an X with an open plenuim, but I didn't think they used a Z on that engine. Could this be from a 1973 Cutlass? I believe you got it at a good price, especially with him helping load/unload it for you
John

I just looked closer at the photos, it looks like the X from 69-72 style. If not cracked those manifolds are worth half to 2/3 of what you paid for the motor!

442much

I looked them over pretty good. They are not cracked. Next week if I have time I'll bring them to work and beed blast them. I have somethint to tinker around with, and if I want to, I can get the engine rebuilt while still enjoying my car. After the paint job, I don't want her away from me any longer than she has to be.

citcapp

great find and a good price, Now all you need is a set of C heads

joe_padavano

Everything on that motor is consistent with it being a 1973 motor. The valve covers, heads, intake, and exhaust all are 1973 parts. The X code, casting #412287 LH exhaust manifold was used in 1973 and has an internal divider for the runners. It's a poor-man's substitute for a W code exhaust manifold. The W code intake with casting #412753 and the "OLDSMOBILE" lettering was used in 73-74 and should have an EGR valve. The "68" on the bellhousing face is on all 455 blocks. The "F4" is meaningless.

442much

The manifold does have a blocked EGR but again the casting should say FA. If this is correct then the info I have on these engines is not correct. As for the bellhousing, I've seen some bellhousing stamped as "76" on a 1976 455. That's why I wondered if "68" meant 1968. I'm not saying there is anything special about this engine, just that with the info I have for the 396021 F and FA, the year of production should fall within the guidelines....in this case it doesn't. I know that the '72's overlap however, has anyone else ever come across this or did you believe as I did that 1968-72 455's were 396021 F and 1972-76 455's were 396021 FA?

joe_padavano

Imagine that - there MIGHT be an error in the Olds FAQs...

442much

Of course this is not written in stone. I never said it was. However I've never seen anyone ever question it before. What I think happened was someone was putting the engines together and came across short blocks from the earlier 455's and used them. They got built with the 1973 parts and stamped with the 1973 serial number and was installed in a 1973 car. I know in those days (and especially today) no factory worker cared what went into a car as long as he didn't have to shut down the assembly line. I always said never say never, this just proves that.

I suppose in the future if someone says here that they have a factory original 1970 442 W30 with E heads we could respond by saying, "that's possible but according to the literature that's out there it says they should be F heads." rather than saying "You don't have a W30." Because imagine that, there just MIGHT be an error in the Olds FAQ's.

wmachine

Ken, you come up with the darnedest things!

Before I comment further, is there some lighter stampings I see above the other ones?

442much

I checked it out. There is no other stamping. All the components say it's a 1973, manifold, heads, serial number. But 396021F is a 1968-72 block, or so it's supposed to be according to all the current literature I've seen.

173 behind the HEI could mean Jan 1973, but again the block should say FA". It's all so confusing. I suppose anything is possible, but I haven't seen it before and so I find it interesting. If the block didn't have conflicting info, or what seems to be conflicting, I never would have mentioned it. Anyone can change heads or a manifold. But to have different info on one item...well that's a mystery, and everyone wants to solve a mystery.

wmachine

The "173" is the block Julian date code. Which means the 173 day of "the" year. But it won't tell you what year.
Here is what I think:
Olds Wiki (let's dump the FAQs, please) suggests (but doesn't come out and say) that the change was sometime in the 72 model year (1968-72 F and 1972-76 FA), so the implied overlap in 72 may very well be a typo, with FAs starting in 73. There was nothing in the change from F to FA that make it something for one year and not the next, so F production could have run well into the 73 model year.
It is entirely possible that it is a June built block could go into the the next model year's production, regardless. Which is exactly what I think happened here.

I do have to disagree with your statement "I always said never say never". Surely we do need to be careful about "never", but there are definitely cases for "never". And far too often the "never say never" argument (along with "anything was possible from the factory") has been used as weak attempts to support things that just didn't happen.
Tread carefully? Absolutely!

None the less, a very interesting find. Helps refine our thinking. Keep 'em coming, Ken!!!!!

J-(Chicago)

Put your findings in the proposed wiki changes.
Nice find.

442much

The "never say never" came from a guy saying his Corvette came with chrome valve covers from the factory and another vette guy saying that that never happened with that type of engine. I said "never say never" because is it possible that as the vette came down the assembly line the assembler ran out of painted covers and "borrowed" a few from the line behind him that just happened to be chrome. He did this rather than stopping the assembly line. I don't think that this scenerio would be impossible and could have happened that way. But I see your point that the "never say never" phrase could be used to try and explain something next to impossible.....like how a Dodge Hemi got into a 442 from the factory.

88 coupe

The castings are the same except for the clutch ball pad.

F had it, FA did not.

Norm

wmachine

Good to see you back, Norm! Well that is an interesting detail. Wasn't that a feature that was needed on manual shift cars? Puzzling as manual shift 455s ran through '73 at least.......
I'm really curious now as to exactly when the FAs came on stream.

Warhead

Not all.
It depend on what they had on hand at the time.
I've got an Fa ORIGINALLY FROM A BOAT that has the clutch ball pad, and the hole drilled.
(boat blocks have a unique serial on the pad, unlike a cars serial #).
There are many things that can change because the factory will NOT have the assembly line grind to a halt because a certain bolt, or valve cover ran out of stock.
I think your block was cast in June 72, and sat for a month or 2 until used for a 73 model year car, which would have been ready by September, anyway. Not much of a stretch.
Nice score, I need a few of those.
Jim

88 coupe

And again I have been misinformed by someone with lots of "credentials".

Norm