On point with points

April 24th, 2009, 11:55 AM

Pardon my ignorance gents; however, I'm not too familiar with points. My '72 cutlass, how many points do I have so that I can replace them? I wanted to conclude a tune-up to ensure she fires up right away every time. Thanks for the help fellas.

csstrux · April 24th, 2009, 12:09 PM

I have heard of a dual point system (old school hot rodding stuff way b4 my time) I have never seen one. I would guess that you are going to be running a stock system if you are asking this w/o mentioning a brand dist. You will be looking for one set of points and condenser. I have messed with them a bit, but not much and not for some time. Others will have to chime in for tuning tips.

redoldsman · April 24th, 2009, 12:57 PM

You probably have a stock distributor which will contain one set of points and one condenser. They were originally separate but you may have what is referred to as a uniset where they are made into one unit. This may be the only way they come anymore. The uniset is easier to install. The points are adjusted externally with an allen wrench through the window on the distributor cap. You will need a dwell meter and set them at 30 degrees. Be sure and disconnect the vacuum hose from the distributor before you set the dwell. I am going out on a limb here and say you can set them at 16 thousands with a feeler gauge if you do not have a dwell meter. I am going off my memory on that one and it has been several decades since I have done that.

csstrux · April 24th, 2009, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redoldsman

You probably have a stock distributor which will contain one set of points and one condenser. They were originally separate but you may have what is referred to as a uniset where they are made into one unit. This may be the only way they come anymore. The uniset is easier to install. The points are adjusted externally with an allen wrench through the window on the distributor cap. You will need a dwell meter and set them at 30 degrees. Be sure and disconnect the vacuum hose from the distributor before you set the dwell. I am going out on a limb here and say you can set them at 16 thousands with a feeler gauge if you do not have a dwell meter. I am going off my memory on that one and it has been several decades since I have done that.

In a pinch a match book cover works. not ideal, but will get you going.

April 24th, 2009, 02:10 PM

Thanks fellas for the help. It's a stock setup (OEM) however, I have an HEI setup that I think I'm going to install instead of continuing with points. It would appear to be a lot easier on me in the long run.

csstrux · April 24th, 2009, 02:13 PM

I have seen it done, but am not sure exactly what is necessary. I THINK a ballast resistor is removed from the hot to the p/c system, and attached to the hot lead for the HEI, but would need to do some digging to confirm. Not sure if anything else is needed.
Looking at this after the fact I was not clear. The resistor i believe is removed from the car in this conversion.

redoldsman · April 24th, 2009, 02:36 PM

csstrux, you are correct on the hookup for the HEI. It needs a full 12 volts to it which is switched with the ignition. If you have it, I would use it. It will be a huge improvement and start a lot quicker. You will need a new set of plug wires and may want to widen the gap on the plugs a little. Interesting comment on the matchbook cover. Never used that trick. Problem is finding a matchbook these days.

csstrux · April 24th, 2009, 02:58 PM

The ONE thing I learned in shop class

Bluevista · April 24th, 2009, 03:22 PM

You could put in a Pertronix or other brand points eliminator unit. Still looks stock and you never have to mess with gap and dwell again.

jensenracing77 · April 24th, 2009, 06:45 PM

i will be trying the Pertronix soon. i am taking out my HEI to put the original air breather base back in my car. depending on what car you have you may run into a clearance issue with your HEI

OLD SKL 69 · April 24th, 2009, 07:16 PM

If you have a dwell gauge you can set the points to 30 degrees or you can use a feeler gauge and set it at .016 and that should be dead on. Putting Pertronix in would be easier than going with the HEI distributor. Also, the HEI distributor does not get the same centrifigal advance as a points type distributor due to the non-performance springs and weights on the top of the distributor. (They came that way so emissions would be better) You may notice a drop in power because of this. Hope that helps.

f-85 · April 24th, 2009, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD SKL 69

If you have a dwell gauge you can set the points to 30 degrees or you can use a feeler gauge and set it at .016 and that should be dead on. Putting Pertronix in would be easier than going with the HEI distributor. Also, the HEI distributor does not get the same centrifigal advance as a points type distributor due to the non-performance springs and weights on the top of the distributor. (They came that way so emissions would be better) You may notice a drop in power because of this. Hope that helps.

I always wondered why my buddy 327 ran better when we had points in it. We put in an HEI and never got it to run the same.

Josh

oldsonharmont · April 24th, 2009, 08:21 PM

If you still use the points and condenser don't forget a little point lube for the cam block. (if they still sell it) The Pertronix is neat cause you maintain the stock look, but gain the advantages of an electronic set up.

redoldsman · April 24th, 2009, 09:44 PM

Pertronix makes good stuff. I just put them in my friends 50, 54 and 68 Oldsmobiles. I put one in my boat about 10 years ago. I have had a HEI in my 72 Cutlass for 15 years and it has worked perfect. If I was buying one today, I would use Pertronix. If I had an HEI, I would use it. On second thought, I would probably use the Pertronix since you don't have to screw with air cleaner clearance and the point distributor is smaller in diameter and you would not have to buy new wires.

88 coupe · April 25th, 2009, 03:17 AM

The Factory Service Manual is a very handy tool to have.

WIn the meantime, you can download this PDF file . Start at page 31.

Point gap is .016" (I use .018")
Dwell angle is 30° (I use 28°)
Or you can turn the adjusting screw in, until the engine misfires, then turn it out ½ turn.

Most important, is to make sure the cam is lubricated properly.

Norm

88 coupe · April 25th, 2009, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csstrux

I have heard of a dual point system ........

One set closed the circuit and the other opened it. Half the wear and more dwell.

I used one in my 288 inch Chev. 7K without missing a beat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by csstrux

In a pinch a match book cover works ........

And the emery board can be used as a point file.

Norm

csstrux · April 25th, 2009, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 88 coupe

One set closed the circuit and the other opened it. Half the wear and more dwell.

I used one in my 288 inch Chev. 7K without missing a beat.

And the emery board can be used as a point file.

Norm

I take it the dual points were intended to be a lower maintainence setup then? I was under the impression that they were designed for high performance

. As previously stated I don't think I have ever seen one

88 coupe · April 25th, 2009, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csstrux

I take it the dual points were intended to be a lower maintainence setup then? ........

No. The staggered setup allowed for more dwell, which gave the Coil more time to saturate. Longer saturation = hotter spark at higher RPM. Half (theoretically) the rubbing block wear, was icing on the cake.

Quote:

Originally Posted by csstrux

........ I don't think I have ever seen one.

Not as popular as they were before electronics took over, but Mallory still makes them.

This one is an Accel Conversion kit for GM point distributors.

Norm

csstrux · April 25th, 2009, 09:00 AM

Thanks Norm

Oldsguy · April 25th, 2009, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 88 coupe

No. The staggered setup allowed for more dwell, which gave the Coil more time to saturate. Longer saturation = hotter spark at higher RPM. Half (theoretically) the rubbing block wear, was icing on the cake.

Not as popular as they were before electronics took over, but Mallory still makes them.

This one is an Accel Conversion kit for GM point distributors.

Norm

Good stuff as usual Norm. That is a great image too.

88 coupe · April 27th, 2009, 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldsguy

........ That is a great image too.

Thanks. Image is a hot link to Year One.

Norm

citcapp · April 27th, 2009, 09:16 AM

I ran a dual point mallory on my odd fire Buick/Olds V6 in my jeep. Was a great improvement in its day. It was a waterproof model ran the engine fully submerged with a snorkel kit.

19Starfire62 · April 28th, 2009, 05:36 PM

I have used Pertronix in many vehicles and have just added them to my Starfire. Very easy and one less thing to worry about/maintain.

April 24th, 2009, 11:55 AM	#1 (permalink)
christine fury Guest Posts: n/a	On point with points Pardon my ignorance gents; however, I'm not too familiar with points. My '72 cutlass, how many points do I have so that I can replace them? I wanted to conclude a tune-up to ensure she fires up right away every time. Thanks for the help fellas.

April 24th, 2009, 12:09 PM	#2 (permalink)
csstrux Super Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Janesville wisconsin Posts: 1,659	I have heard of a dual point system (old school hot rodding stuff way b4 my time) I have never seen one. I would guess that you are going to be running a stock system if you are asking this w/o mentioning a brand dist. You will be looking for one set of points and condenser. I have messed with them a bit, but not much and not for some time. Others will have to chime in for tuning tips. __________________ Chad Greed: in psychology is an excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth

April 24th, 2009, 12:57 PM	#3 (permalink)
redoldsman Proud Viet Nam Veteran Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Rowlett, TX Posts: 481	You probably have a stock distributor which will contain one set of points and one condenser. They were originally separate but you may have what is referred to as a uniset where they are made into one unit. This may be the only way they come anymore. The uniset is easier to install. The points are adjusted externally with an allen wrench through the window on the distributor cap. You will need a dwell meter and set them at 30 degrees. Be sure and disconnect the vacuum hose from the distributor before you set the dwell. I am going out on a limb here and say you can set them at 16 thousands with a feeler gauge if you do not have a dwell meter. I am going off my memory on that one and it has been several decades since I have done that. __________________ redoldsman

April 24th, 2009, 02:13 PM	#6 (permalink)
csstrux Super Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Janesville wisconsin Posts: 1,659	I have seen it done, but am not sure exactly what is necessary. I THINK a ballast resistor is removed from the hot to the p/c system, and attached to the hot lead for the HEI, but would need to do some digging to confirm. Not sure if anything else is needed. Looking at this after the fact I was not clear. The resistor i believe is removed from the car in this conversion. __________________ Chad Greed: in psychology is an excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth

April 24th, 2009, 02:36 PM	#7 (permalink)
redoldsman Proud Viet Nam Veteran Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Rowlett, TX Posts: 481	csstrux, you are correct on the hookup for the HEI. It needs a full 12 volts to it which is switched with the ignition. If you have it, I would use it. It will be a huge improvement and start a lot quicker. You will need a new set of plug wires and may want to widen the gap on the plugs a little. Interesting comment on the matchbook cover. Never used that trick. Problem is finding a matchbook these days. __________________ redoldsman

April 24th, 2009, 02:10 PM	#5 (permalink)
christine fury Guest Posts: n/a	Thanks fellas for the help. It's a stock setup (OEM) however, I have an HEI setup that I think I'm going to install instead of continuing with points. It would appear to be a lot easier on me in the long run.

April 24th, 2009, 02:58 PM	#8 (permalink)
csstrux Super Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Janesville wisconsin Posts: 1,659	The ONE thing I learned in shop class __________________ Chad Greed: in psychology is an excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth

April 24th, 2009, 03:22 PM	#9 (permalink)
Bluevista Cruisin' the Vistas Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Northeast Ohio Posts: 1,724	You could put in a Pertronix or other brand points eliminator unit. Still looks stock and you never have to mess with gap and dwell again.

April 24th, 2009, 06:45 PM	#10 (permalink)
jensenracing77 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: brazil indiana Posts: 1,022	i will be trying the Pertronix soon. i am taking out my HEI to put the original air breather base back in my car. depending on what car you have you may run into a clearance issue with your HEI __________________ 70 Rallye 350 72 Cutlass 00 Silhouette 90 Toronado Trofeo

April 24th, 2009, 07:16 PM	#11 (permalink)
OLD SKL 69 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 307	If you have a dwell gauge you can set the points to 30 degrees or you can use a feeler gauge and set it at .016 and that should be dead on. Putting Pertronix in would be easier than going with the HEI distributor. Also, the HEI distributor does not get the same centrifigal advance as a points type distributor due to the non-performance springs and weights on the top of the distributor. (They came that way so emissions would be better) You may notice a drop in power because of this. Hope that helps. __________________ Darrell 1971 Cutlass Supreme

April 24th, 2009, 08:21 PM	#13 (permalink)
oldsonharmont Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Glendale, AZ Posts: 133	If you still use the points and condenser don't forget a little point lube for the cam block. (if they still sell it) The Pertronix is neat cause you maintain the stock look, but gain the advantages of an electronic set up. __________________ Mike '71 Cutlass SX Convertible '97 LSS

April 24th, 2009, 09:44 PM	#14 (permalink)
redoldsman Proud Viet Nam Veteran Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Rowlett, TX Posts: 481	Pertronix makes good stuff. I just put them in my friends 50, 54 and 68 Oldsmobiles. I put one in my boat about 10 years ago. I have had a HEI in my 72 Cutlass for 15 years and it has worked perfect. If I was buying one today, I would use Pertronix. If I had an HEI, I would use it. On second thought, I would probably use the Pertronix since you don't have to screw with air cleaner clearance and the point distributor is smaller in diameter and you would not have to buy new wires. __________________ redoldsman

April 25th, 2009, 09:00 AM	#19 (permalink)
csstrux Super Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Janesville wisconsin Posts: 1,659	Thanks Norm __________________ Chad Greed: in psychology is an excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth

April 27th, 2009, 09:16 AM	#22 (permalink)
citcapp Super Moderator Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Bothell, WA Posts: 3,455	I ran a dual point mallory on my odd fire Buick/Olds V6 in my jeep. Was a great improvement in its day. It was a waterproof model ran the engine fully submerged with a snorkel kit. __________________ Pat 1957 Super 88 with a 455 1948 2dr series 76 with a 455

April 28th, 2009, 05:36 PM	#23 (permalink)
19Starfire62 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 19	I have used Pertronix in many vehicles and have just added them to my Starfire. Very easy and one less thing to worry about/maintain.

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