"Numbers Matching" means anything?

wmachine · April 23rd, 2009, 09:56 AM

We've had discussions about the term "numbers matching" and its use and misuse. And I've said that it is pretty much a meaningless term. If fact to me, its use indicates the users *doesn't* know what he's talking about.
Here's a perfect example (No offense to anybody involved with this car. I am not criticizing the car involved at all):
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/WOW-O...3A1|240%3A1318

In the text:
"1966 OLDSMOBILE CUTLAS 442 EVERYTHING IS ORIGINAL NUMBER MATCHING CAR"

Okay lets see what follows:
"WAS BORN AUTO BUT HE TURNED IT OVER TO A HURST 4 SPEED
10 BOLT 342 OR 391 REAR END"

Hummm, neither the the trans nor the rear are original, and at least the rear isn't even correct. What's so bad about that? Nothing. *IF* he didn't say numbers matching.
Which brings me back to the question I always ask when "numbers matching" is used: "What numbers match what?"
My advice is that whenever you hear "numbers matching" (without an explanation of what numbers match what) consider that is only means one thing: the user of that term is uninformed.

rocketraider · April 23rd, 2009, 10:15 AM

The term has become cliche, and I think people use it to try to add cred to their car. (Read: justify jacking up the asking price.)

It's really interesting when they try to claim numbers matching on pre-60s GM cars, when the best you can do is translate individual components' build date to the Fisher assembly date.

As usual we can thank the Corvette/Chevy crowd for the obsession with numbers. But considering how many Chevrolet products underwent transplants, I can understand why a correct numbers Chevrolet should be considered more valuable.

joe_padavano · April 23rd, 2009, 10:20 AM

Yeah, this is right up there with W-36 stripes on my list of hot buttons. I usually ask the seller to please show me the numbers that "match".

68Tom · April 23rd, 2009, 11:23 AM

Well, I'm pretty sure it was SUPPOSED to mean that the car is with the original engine & components, transmission, rear end that came with the car from the factory. Sadly, due to people wanting to screw others over for a few bucks, it has come to mean "yes, this has an engine with numbers. what numbers, I don't know."

rcorrigan5 · April 23rd, 2009, 11:38 AM

All I can say is, the collar has to match the cuffs, so to speak!

wmachine · April 23rd, 2009, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe_padavano

Yeah, this is right up there with W-36 stripes on my list of hot buttons.

I guess its more like a launching pad than a button for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcorrigan5

All I can say is, the collar has to match the cuffs, so to speak!

Yeah, but it usually means "noose fits the neck"

IDAS 69 · April 23rd, 2009, 12:20 PM

Just changed my profile...Wow....

wmachine · April 23rd, 2009, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IDAS 69

Just changed my profile...Wow....

I'm so sorry!

I didn't mean this to be critical of you! You have an awesome car, and nothing changes that. Frankly, I'm much more impressed with your car than I am with all of those high dollar restorations out there.
My apologies!

scubastever · April 23rd, 2009, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcorrigan5

All I can say is, the collar has to match the cuffs, so to speak!

is that like the "curtains matching the carpet" type comparison?

csstrux · April 23rd, 2009, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scubastever

is that like the "curtains matching the carpet" type comparison?

Get rid of the carpet, and no one cares about matching the drapes

68Tom · April 23rd, 2009, 02:55 PM

This thread has gone straight into the gutter!

csstrux · April 23rd, 2009, 03:24 PM

He started it...

88 coupe · April 23rd, 2009, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 68Tom

........ due to people wanting to screw others over for a few bucks ........

More like: People who use whatever terminology sounds the coolest, regardless of its accuracy.

"Numbers matching" means: Never having to admit that ones car is not original.

Norm

Bluevista · April 23rd, 2009, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csstrux

He started it...

You kept it going young man.

Would you walk off a cliff if everybody else did!?

I wonder what numbers matching used NOS parts are?

csstrux · April 23rd, 2009, 06:25 PM

Get yourself a set of numbered punches or stamps or what ever they is called and all numbers will match, they just wont be right.

citcapp · April 24th, 2009, 08:35 AM

I have a numbers matching washing machine does that count

Had it since new, so I know it's all original, any offers?

agtw31 · April 24th, 2009, 08:42 AM

with dealers on ebay,matching numbers means the title and vin# match.

Redog · April 24th, 2009, 09:26 PM

I had somebody ask me today what option was the 350 with the 400 trans in the 85 Delta 88

344870M · April 25th, 2009, 07:50 AM

Originally, I too thought numbers matching meant that it had the correct engine and trans. After discovering that my W has all the correct engine components, the rear end, the master cylinder, all the glass, anything that I could decipher, I realized what numbers matching should mean. I don't have the correct alt or water pump but I can definitely tell you what does match.

442much · April 25th, 2009, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wmachine

We've had discussions about the term "numbers matching" and its use and misuse. And I've said that it is pretty much a meaningless term. If fact to me, its use indicates the users *doesn't* know what he's talking about.
Here's a perfect example (No offense to anybody involved with this car. I am not criticizing the car involved at all):
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/WOW-O...3A1|240%3A1318

In the text:
"1966 OLDSMOBILE CUTLAS 442 EVERYTHING IS ORIGINAL NUMBER MATCHING CAR"

Okay lets see what follows:
"WAS BORN AUTO BUT HE TURNED IT OVER TO A HURST 4 SPEED
10 BOLT 342 OR 391 REAR END"

Hummm, neither the the trans nor the rear are original, and at least the rear isn't even correct. What's so bad about that? Nothing. *IF* he didn't say numbers matching.
Which brings me back to the question I always ask when "numbers matching" is used: "What numbers match what?"
My advice is that whenever you hear "numbers matching" (without an explanation of what numbers match what) consider that is only means one thing: the user of that term is uninformed.

Maybe he meant that the first "4" matched the second "4" in 442 and the first "6" matched the second "6" in 1966?

April 23rd, 2009, 09:56 AM	#1 (permalink)
wmachine Trying to remember member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,468	"Numbers Matching" means anything? We've had discussions about the term "numbers matching" and its use and misuse. And I've said that it is pretty much a meaningless term. If fact to me, its use indicates the users doesn't know what he's talking about. Here's a perfect example (No offense to anybody involved with this car. I am not criticizing the car involved at all): http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/WOW-O...3A1\|240%3A1318 In the text: "1966 OLDSMOBILE CUTLAS 442 EVERYTHING IS ORIGINAL NUMBER MATCHING CAR" Okay lets see what follows: "WAS BORN AUTO BUT HE TURNED IT OVER TO A HURST 4 SPEED 10 BOLT 342 OR 391 REAR END" Hummm, neither the the trans nor the rear are original, and at least the rear isn't even correct. What's so bad about that? Nothing. IF he didn't say numbers matching. Which brings me back to the question I always ask when "numbers matching" is used: "What numbers match what?" My advice is that whenever you hear "numbers matching" (without an explanation of what numbers match what) consider that is only means one thing: the user of that term is uninformed. __________________ Kurt http://wmachines.shubes.net

April 23rd, 2009, 10:15 AM	#2 (permalink)
rocketraider Oldsdruid Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Danville Vajenya, the Last Capital of Dixie Posts: 1,214	The term has become cliche, and I think people use it to try to add cred to their car. (Read: justify jacking up the asking price.) It's really interesting when they try to claim numbers matching on pre-60s GM cars, when the best you can do is translate individual components' build date to the Fisher assembly date. As usual we can thank the Corvette/Chevy crowd for the obsession with numbers. But considering how many Chevrolet products underwent transplants, I can understand why a correct numbers Chevrolet should be considered more valuable. __________________ I know absolutely nothing about Oldsmobiles. Just ask the owner of Oldspower.com

April 23rd, 2009, 10:20 AM	#3 (permalink)
joe_padavano Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,402	Yeah, this is right up there with W-36 stripes on my list of hot buttons. I usually ask the seller to please show me the numbers that "match". __________________ Joe Padavano 64 Jetstar 88 Conv 66 442 L-69 Conv 68 W-30 69 H/O 69 442 70 W-30 72 442 84 Custom Cruiser 86 Caprice wagon (w/307 Olds)

April 23rd, 2009, 11:23 AM	#4 (permalink)
68Tom Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: New York, NY Posts: 835	Well, I'm pretty sure it was SUPPOSED to mean that the car is with the original engine & components, transmission, rear end that came with the car from the factory. Sadly, due to people wanting to screw others over for a few bucks, it has come to mean "yes, this has an engine with numbers. what numbers, I don't know." __________________ 1968 Olds 442 Sports Coupe 4-speed/bench seat

April 23rd, 2009, 12:20 PM	#7 (permalink)
IDAS 69 Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Location: upstate sc Posts: 178	Made me change... Just changed my profile...Wow.... __________________ Idas 69, Hence, Ida Matthews the original owner. All components original and still there. 76,350 miles.

April 23rd, 2009, 11:38 AM	#5 (permalink)
rcorrigan5 Randy C. Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Olympia, WA Posts: 110	All I can say is, the collar has to match the cuffs, so to speak!

April 23rd, 2009, 02:55 PM	#11 (permalink)
68Tom Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: New York, NY Posts: 835	This thread has gone straight into the gutter! __________________ 1968 Olds 442 Sports Coupe 4-speed/bench seat

April 23rd, 2009, 03:24 PM	#12 (permalink)
csstrux Super Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Janesville wisconsin Posts: 1,659	He started it... __________________ Chad Greed: in psychology is an excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth

April 23rd, 2009, 06:25 PM	#15 (permalink)
csstrux Super Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Janesville wisconsin Posts: 1,659	Get yourself a set of numbered punches or stamps or what ever they is called and all numbers will match, they just wont be right. __________________ Chad Greed: in psychology is an excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth

April 24th, 2009, 08:35 AM	#16 (permalink)
citcapp Super Moderator Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Bothell, WA Posts: 3,453	I have a numbers matching washing machine does that count Had it since new, so I know it's all original, any offers? __________________ Pat 1957 Super 88 with a 455 1948 2dr series 76 with a 455

April 24th, 2009, 08:42 AM	#17 (permalink)
agtw31 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: columbus ohio Posts: 746	with dealers on ebay,matching numbers means the title and vin# match.

April 24th, 2009, 09:26 PM	#18 (permalink)
Redog Alero Chapter Secretary Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Newtown, PA Posts: 1,145	I had somebody ask me today what option was the 350 with the 400 trans in the 85 Delta 88 __________________ Me 2000 Alero running 14's 2005 Nissan Altima (her's) 1967 Olds 330 motor sitting on a stand 1985 Delta 88 w/1968 350 rocket ( MURDERED )

April 25th, 2009, 07:50 AM	#19 (permalink)
344870M Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: n/w PA Posts: 185	Originally, I too thought numbers matching meant that it had the correct engine and trans. After discovering that my W has all the correct engine components, the rear end, the master cylinder, all the glass, anything that I could decipher, I realized what numbers matching should mean. I don't have the correct alt or water pump but I can definitely tell you what does match. __________________ 1970 W-30 4spd, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5y_OKnABGJ0 Why is there a "Z" on my data plate & broadcast card!??

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