65 Cutlass wont start

[nonhog]

Just brought home my (new to me) 65 Cutlass . Saw it start and run . Now nothing ! Like the battery is out or missing , no click whir or clunk .
Nothing ! Battery is fine things work on accessory position . Had starter tested its o.k. Checked and cleaned connections . Horn relay (?) is toast could that be it ? I hope not, can't find one .Started fine Saturday morning , Saturday afternoon nodda ? This car is not like the Chevelles I was use to (66) heck of a way to start my ownership HELP ! Thanks in advance.

[Dapapadon]

Try moving the shifter around a little. Maybe it's just a flaky neutral safety switch. Or try hold the key in the "Start" position and wiggle it a little. Doesn't sound too serious, just need to locate the culprit.

Don

[nonhog]

Originally Posted by Dapapadon

Try moving the shifter around a little. Maybe it's just a flaky neutral safety switch. Or try hold the key in the "Start" position and wiggle it a little. Doesn't sound too serious, just need to locate the culprit.

Don

Thanks for the quick reply , tried several times in N wiggled shifter in P
grabbed connectors pushed/pulled . I'm lost .
Anybody know if the switch on the linkage is suspect ? I'll snap pics tomorrow .

[Dapapadon]

I'm still guessing NSS or starter switch. I guess it could be the horn relay. But most I've seen are like a terminal for the battery cables. And your's look like some I've seen. You might loosen the cables at the horn relay, move them around a little & retighten. See if that helps.

Then I know I've done it before. Any chance you put the 2 small wires on the starter backwards?

If none of the above it's time to get the test light or meter out. Check for power at the coil with the switch "On" should be about 6 volts. Then at the starter, but that gets involved.

Maybe someone with a 65 will chime in.

Sorry to hear you're having so much trouble with your 'New' car. I know how frustrating it can be.

Don

[Cutlass83]

Do you know if there is any power in the vehicle? It has to be the batt or starter connections.

[Oldsguy]

Double check your battery cables, both the ground to the front of the block and the "hot wire" to the starter. Look for breaks, corrosion, loose nuts on the terminations, etc. If you can, use a volt-ohmeter and check for continuity from end to end while wiggling the cable, this will indicate if there is corrosion inside the insulation that you can't see.

[nonhog]

Yep, has power ! the wipers, lights, heater fan radio all work . Just nuthin when turning key over . I pulled the starter (took pictures 1st) had it tested . Pulled all the connections and cleaned and/or reattached them.
I pulled the ignition switch (looks o.k.) even put the jumper box on the battery . The winding in the horn relay are no longer connected . So its shot . It seems like the power should go right past the relay due to the junction block ? I'll replace the relay if I can find one .
I may just get some friends to come over and push it inside, then I can start with the voltage tests etc.
I thought about trying a remote starter but I dont see how I could hook it up and I dont have big hands, just no room .

[Oldsmaniac]

The horn relay is not the problem....and hard to find as well for these cars...do some troubleshooting with a meter...the neutral safety switch is easily jumpered. Check for power to the starter when ignition switch is turned. Should not be too involved to pinpoint the trouble.

[nonhog]

Originally Posted by Oldsmaniac

The horn relay is not the problem....and hard to find as well for these cars...do some troubleshooting with a meter...the neutral safety switch is easily jumpered. Check for power to the starter when ignition switch is turned. Should not be too involved to pinpoint the trouble.

Thanks, is the NSS under dash or is it that switch underhood attached to the carb linkage ?

[Oldsmaniac]

The switch if you have a column shift automatic is at the base of steering column inside of car...2 heavier wires on it that are most likely purple...hold em together and turn ignition to test. The switch on throttle linkage I believe is the trans kickdown switch.

[nonhog]

Thanks for all the input ! still trying, tonite I got home and broke out the meter had good voltage @ the battery and cables past the terminals
good voltage to the junction block then it got cold and I dont feel well so I wiggled the harness at the firewall, wiggled the NSS connection and still nothing . Good time to stop it hailed for a good 5 minutes after I put the tools away.
Always tomorrow!

[Oldsguy]

Good voltage to which junction block? The firewall junction?

[nonhog]

Originally Posted by Oldsguy

Good voltage to which junction block? The firewall junction?

Sorry my head is spinning from this darn cold ! The junction in the picture
(1st post) on the LF inner fender . The way I feel now probably wont touch it tonite. ?????

[Jokers69]

The Horn Relay?? Disconnect everything from the "junction" put a bolt through the terms instead of the relay post and try it. Make sure to tape off the wire junction to keep it from shorting to ground. All were doing to removing the bad relay from the circut.

[nonhog]

Well I dont feel as rushed now ! Its in the shop a floor jack and a come a long and were indoors ! No more laying in the gravel .

[rocketraider]

Maybe the car senses a Chevrolet freak has custody?

The horn relay has nothing to do with the starter circuit. It operates the horn, is all. You'll need one to pass safety inspection. They're on ebay all the time and work on Buick-Olds-Pontiac from 58-68. Trouble there is you're fighting the GTO crowd for them, esp for NOS Delco parts. If you're not terribly concerned with original appearance, you can adapt a Chevy or Ford relay to your wiring until you can find or afford the correct horn relay.

Have you checked to see that you have 12V at the ignition switch? Mid-60s Olds sometimes melt their connectors and cause all sorts of havoc, but you said it looks ok. You want constant 12V at the RED wire.

You say everything works in ACC. Try them in RUN. There are two 12V busses in the fuse block- one fed off battery (always hot) and one fed thru the ignition switch (hot in ACC or RUN). If it's hot in ACC but not RUN, ignition switch is suspect. You want 12V at the PURPLE wire terminal with switch in "START".

If you have 12V to the ignition switch, the problem has to lie in the ignition switch, neutral safety switch, starter solenoid, or the associated wiring. You're dealing with 40+ year old wiring that if you're lucky hasn't been boogered with by someone who had no idea what the hell they were doing. That's a big reason I tend to stay away from Chevrolets and musclecars- they ALWAYS have boogered wiring. I call stuff like that "previous owner's stamp". Olds and Buick are less likely to suffer from it than Chevelles, GTOs and Mustangs, but I've fixed my share of corrupted wiring on all of 'em.

Here's something off the wall but it bears checking. Are the right wires on the right plugs at the neutral safety switch? EZ test- see if the backup lights work with shifter in R. These are the GREEN wires. If that checks out, jumper across the two PURPLE wires and see if starter operates. If yes, NSS is faulty or out of adjustment.

On the carb linkage switch- one side of it controls electric downshift on the Jetaway, and the other set of wires controls the switch-pitch torque converter. Has no effect on your problem, but needs to be adjusted correctly for transmission to work right.

The best investment you could make right now if you plan to keep the car is to buy the 1965 Olds Chassis and Body Manuals. They will tell you about anything you need to know to service your car.

[Jokers69]

Originally Posted by rocketraider

Maybe the car senses a Chevrolet freak has custody?

The horn relay has nothing to do with the starter circuit. It operates the horn, is all. You'll need one to pass safety inspection. They're on ebay all the time and work on Buick-Olds-Pontiac from 58-68. Trouble there is you're fighting the GTO crowd for them, esp for NOS Delco parts. If you're not terribly concerned with original appearance, you can adapt a Chevy or Ford relay to your wiring until you can find or afford the correct horn relay.

Have you checked to see that you have 12V at the ignition switch? Mid-60s Olds sometimes melt their connectors and cause all sorts of havoc, but you said it looks ok. You want constant 12V at the RED wire.

You say everything works in ACC. Try them in RUN. There are two 12V busses in the fuse block- one fed off battery (always hot) and one fed thru the ignition switch (hot in ACC or RUN). If it's hot in ACC but not RUN, ignition switch is suspect. You want 12V at the PURPLE wire terminal with switch in "START".

If you have 12V to the ignition switch, the problem has to lie in the ignition switch, neutral safety switch, starter solenoid, or the associated wiring. You're dealing with 40+ year old wiring that if you're lucky hasn't been boogered with by someone who had no idea what the hell they were doing. That's a big reason I tend to stay away from Chevrolets and musclecars- they ALWAYS have boogered wiring. I call stuff like that "previous owner's stamp". Olds and Buick are less likely to suffer from it than Chevelles, GTOs and Mustangs, but I've fixed my share of corrupted wiring on all of 'em.

Here's something off the wall but it bears checking. Are the right wires on the right plugs at the neutral safety switch? EZ test- see if the backup lights work with shifter in R. These are the GREEN wires. If that checks out, jumper across the two PURPLE wires and see if starter operates. If yes, NSS is faulty or out of adjustment.

On the carb linkage switch- one side of it controls electric downshift on the Jetaway, and the other set of wires controls the switch-pitch torque converter. Has no effect on your problem, but needs to be adjusted correctly for transmission to work right.

The best investment you could make right now if you plan to keep the car is to buy the 1965 Olds Chassis and Body Manuals. They will tell you about anything you need to know to service your car.

The only reason I suggested to get bad relay out of the circuit, is because it's corrupted, there's the ever so slight chance it may be pulling the voltage down enough to effect the circuits that tie on to it.. I'm a machine controls guy and I've seen stranger stuff happen.

[nonhog]

Originally Posted by rocketraider

Maybe the car senses a Chevrolet freak has custody? .........................

The best investment you could make right now if you plan to keep the car is to buy the 1965 Olds Chassis and Body Manuals. They will tell you about anything you need to know to service your car.

Freak ? Yep thats me but I dont limit it to Chevrolet I am a car freak !
outa 50 + machines this is only my 2nd Olds . Thanks for the ideas I will get busy soon and let everybody know what I find .
And yes manuals are on my list !
The wiring in this car has been messed with but not real bad (from what I can see) I plan on replacing it all section by section . this car wont be a all stock resto, some mild mods (performance) I am thinking factory replacement wiring (OPGI) thinking it sounds easier than Painless wiring.
what have others done ?
1st I need to get it running !

[nonhog]

IT RUNS ! Yeah ! This morning I replaced the starter harness and the NSS so I dont know which was the culprit was but it worked ! So I'm good .
Thanks again for the suggestions

[rocketraider]

Great! Boil them hides!